IS Towing with the CT going to be practical?

[Rocky_H]

So the goal is extended range while towing, and basically comes down to either of two methods. Both would involve extra battery storage (weight) in the trailer, so that is not a difference. The difference would be motors in the trailer or not? One seems to create more complex problems that would need to be solved and would be more difficult.

1. With motors:
For one thing, this is entirely extra weight and cost that wouldn't need to be there in the other solution. Also, from the added dangerous problem of trailer pushing the car that we've been mentioning, this is a very complex software control problem to solve. It would need the right kind of sensors in the right places to detect and match motor speed and responses, etc. etc. and it's a system that has never existed before, so would be a pretty new kind of design problem.

2. Without motors:
The vehicle already has motors and can pull. The problem to be solved here is just a power routing issue to figure out how to transfer energy through some kind of tethering cable from the trailer to the car while it's in motion. That seems to me a simpler, faster, and cheaper thing to figure out.

 

[Earl]

So the goal is extended range while towing, and basically comes down to either of two methods. Both would involve extra battery storage (weight) in the trailer, so that is not a difference. The difference would be motors in the trailer or not? One seems to create more complex problems that would need to be solved and would be more difficult.

1. With motors:
For one thing, this is entirely extra weight and cost that wouldn't need to be there in the other solution. Also, from the added dangerous problem of trailer pushing the car that we've been mentioning, this is a very complex software control problem to solve. It would need the right kind of sensors in the right places to detect and match motor speed and responses, etc. etc. and it's a system that has never existed before, so would be a pretty new kind of design problem.

2. Without motors:
The vehicle already has motors and can pull. The problem to be solved here is just a power routing issue to figure out how to transfer energy through some kind of tethering cable from the trailer to the car while it's in motion. That seems to me a simpler, faster, and cheaper thing to figure out.

I think you've boiled it down to the choices but I think there are a few other factors that may tip the decision:

Without trailer motors, you're going to put a heavy constant load on the existing motor and power electronics. They likely will need to be beefed up to handle such load with more cooling among other capacities. This, of course, is basically analogous to enhanced transmission coolers sometimes needed for towing with ICE vehicles.

With trailer motors, you'll definitely have to solve the towing stability issue with active control. This could benefit further if it increases towing stability, reducing the tendency to jacknife and possibly help with backing up. I don't know that a lot of extra sensors would be needed. Observing motor currents and possibly a tongue force sensor (such as current trailer brakes use) might be sufficient. If complex inertial measurement sensors are necessary, I can see how it could become too complex and risky.

It will be interesting to see how Tesla, Ford, Rivian, Airstream, etc, all handle this, if they do.

 

[Rocky_H]

Without trailer motors, you're going to put a heavy constant load on the existing motor and power electronics. They likely will need to be beefed up to handle such load with more cooling among other capacities. This, of course, is basically analogous to enhanced transmission coolers sometimes needed for towing with ICE vehicles.

Where do you get that idea? Towing is already currently being done with the Model X right now, exactly as it is, with no modification at all. It just requires more frequent recharging because it uses energy too fast. But the existing motors handle all the towing load there is without being "beefed up" or needing extra cooling. This is just about not needing to recharge as much to go a bit longer between stops.

 

[Earl]

Towing is already currently being done with the Model X

5,000 lb light towing, yes. Not heavy towing and we don't know what the long term affect of lots of hard towing a lot will be. Maybe it won't be necessary maybe it will, you know no more than I do - its all just speculation today. The same could be said for ICE yet many have seen the need to beef up auxiliary systems to better handle the loads.

 

[strider]

I can’t speak for a EV towing heavy loads … for the practical experience some folks are posting on YouTube and here are very favorable…. Now … I do tow my 5th wheel trailer (42’ Forest River Sandpiper 13,600 lbs) with my 1 ton 3500 Ram 6.7 Cummins …. my tow range is 240 miles on a single tank… my Truck Stop refueling takes anywhere from 20 minutes to 35 minutes if I’m waiting in line for diesel ($80 later) I pull off… My opinion is if I actually look at REAL world information that’s available… My assessment is the that the CT will perform nicely and giving it real charge time is more on the person’s patience and planning ahead …. I am going to get a Slightly smaller Forest River but my CT will handle it just fine

Do you think you will able to tow a 5th wheel w/ a CT? With the sloping bed sides I do not think that will be practical.

 

[Rocky_H]

5,000 lb light towing, yes. Not heavy towing and we don't know what the long term affect of lots of hard towing a lot will be. Maybe it won't be necessary maybe it will, you know no more than I do - its all just speculation today. The same could be said for ICE yet many have seen the need to beef up auxiliary systems to better handle the loads.

But if that is the case, then a vehicle Tesla builds with a higher tow rating, would ALREADY be built with those higher capabilities built into the electrical system for a heavier load! That still has nothing to do with this thing of extra battery storage to extend range.

 

[hmcgregoraz]

You are, of course, assuming that gasoline or diesel fuel remains as easy to obtain as it is today.
That's kind of like assuming there will be a stable with hay, a payphone, or VHS player around . . .

If I could get a self-propelled Airstream trailer that:
- could tow behind a CT or, better, a Model Y or X
- compensated for much of its added drag for over 200 miles of driving
- had a control system built in to handle the towing dynamics issues pointed out by @Rocky_H
- had supercharger charging capability (150 - 250 KW)
- included battery storage that I could couple into my home's power gateway (instead of a Powerwall) for daily and emergency use
- was self propelled (slowly, of course) so I could easily jockey it into my driveway without having to get the tow vehicle out of the way
A Model S Plaid couldn't get me to the store fast enough to buy it.

I was speaking to "near term" and "obtainable".

Right now, IMHO it would be better to keep an older ICE truck around (vs selling used to someone else, who will use it even more, or junking/recycling it) for the few cases of heavy towing need, and getting a Model Y now to move most driving needs to electric.

Waiting a year plus on a CT and then finding out that the range just is not quite enough to fit the heavy towing needs, and still have to keep the ICE truck around, or maybe being able to fully transition to the CT, but using a bigger, heavier vehicle as the primary driver vs a Model Y, it just does not make sense to me.

Long term, I would like to see things like travel trailers have significant onboard battery, which could be used to help power and EV, could be used as house battery (ie power wall) when parked at home, and could be used to power the travel trailer when not at an RV hookup, would be awesome, but that is not a near term "fix" for the original poster. Ability to supercharge the trailer would be amazing.

Having on board motors may or may not help, though I would love a remote controlled "parking" capability, both for at home and at super chargers.

I personally went with a Model X + Cargo Trailer vs a Pickup Truck over 4 years ago, and it has served our needs well. I have a CyberTruck on pre-order, but do not know when we will or want to take delivery.

-Harry

 

[doghousePVD]

5,000 lb light towing, yes. Not heavy towing and we don't know what the long term affect of lots of hard towing a lot will be. Maybe it won't be necessary maybe it will, you know no more than I do - its all just speculation today. The same could be said for ICE yet many have seen the need to beef up auxiliary systems to better handle the loads.

The Cybertruck is a first generation truck to compete with a 150/1500 class truck — NOT a 350/3500 class truck. Even as a 150/1500 the CT is rated for 14,000 lbs, not exactly light weight. An ICE 150 can’t pull a big 5th wheel.

In a few years 2nd generation larger 250 and 350 trucks will become available.

 

[Earl]

The Cybertruck is a first generation truck to compete with a 150/1500 class truck — NOT a 350/3500 class truck. Even as a 150/1500 the CT is rated for 14,000 lbs, not exactly light weight. An ICE 150 can’t pull a big 5th wheel.

In a few years 2nd generation larger 250 and 350 trucks will become available.

That's conventional wisdom, for sure. In my experience conventional wisdom often does not apply with EVs and Tesla, in particular.
We'll just have to see what reality brings.
I mean, its just software, similar to the current stability control in Tesla's, to make a 10 ton trailer act like a 2 ton one if it has an electric motor on each wheel. That might make it trivial for a CT (or F150 or maybe Model Y) to tow a trailer that might otherwise only be able to tow a 2 ton one. Clearly, the drawbar weight of a 5th wheel or gooseneck trailer could be a problem but remember that the CT is not just another body-on-rails truck either. Those funky sides are a bridge built for carrying weight. How much? Where? Does Airstream have what it takes?
I know of some pretty smart engineers, including control systems engineers from OSU, UI, Purdue, IU, etc (all near them) so the talent is or has been nearby. It might be surprising.
Did you ever think a family sedan would trash the best Bugatti could produce?
Get your popcorn, life will continue to be interesting.

 

[Holladaym66]

For a dual use of backup for the home and full off-shore power for the RV, I can see this as a use case regardless of the Cybertruck being in the equation. That assumes the cost and weight factors work out. Camping in my area, without AC is a challenge with the heat and humidity.

I still say the best option currently in the market for an RV is the Ford F-150 Hybrid with the generator option. It has enough towing and payload capacity (12,700/2,120) to get the job done. Plus, you can put the truck into the generator stand-alone mode, which will fully power your RV for a very long time.

Has Tesla released any data yet on the expected payload data specs for the Cybertruck? All I've seen is towing. Keep in mind most people will hit the payload limit long before the towing capacity when towing.

The downside of the hybrid with generator is that it still burns gas. It is, however, less likely to be troublesome like most generators that aren't regularly used.
I haven't seen much in the payload specs for CT. I'm guessing from the shape, that it will be huge but probably limited by the wheels. I haven't seen any talk about a dually version.

At the moment TESLA is saying a payload range up to 3500 lbs

 

[Holladaym66]

I have a reservation for the CT (about 445,000 away, based on 112744100). I can wait till next year if I had to.
But, I made the "mistake" of test driving the Y. ...and I'm getting the itch.
I am hearing some worrisome (low mile) range estimates when it comes to towing (~6000lb camper) with the CT (or any EV, for that fact).
I don't think stopping every 150 miles to recharge will be pleasurable.
Would it be better to keep an F150 on the side (for towing) and go for the Y as a daily driver?
...or should I trust the practicality of towing with a CT?
Any thoughts?

According to how much your towing… the range of a V-6 gas powered F-150 towing 4500 lbs is about 180 miles … so if the 30 extra miles is critical to you and you don’t mind forking over $50 to $60 bucks each time then I’d say don’t waste time on a Cyber Truck

 

[Cutch26]

I have a reservation for the CT (about 445,000 away, based on 112744100). I can wait till next year if I had to.
But, I made the "mistake" of test driving the Y. ...and I'm getting the itch.
I am hearing some worrisome (low mile) range estimates when it comes to towing (~6000lb camper) with the CT (or any EV, for that fact).
I don't think stopping every 150 miles to recharge will be pleasurable.
Would it be better to keep an F150 on the side (for towing) and go for the Y as a daily driver?
...or should I trust the practicality of towing with a CT?
Any thoughts?

The cyber truck will get far more then 150 miles on a charge while towing.. I use my 90D model X every day to tow a 24’ enclosed trailer with a. Total weight of almost 15,000 lbs when I have it fully loaded. My X charges to 230 and I get about 100 miles of real range.. the cyber truck will see a lesser reduction than the X does when towing but even if it sees a similar reduction in range 500 will have you easily driving 200 with a 15,000 lb plus trailer

 

[FLRifleman]

The cyber truck will get far more then 150 miles on a charge while towing.. I use my 90D model X every day to tow a 24’ enclosed trailer with a. Total weight of almost 15,000 lbs when I have it fully loaded. My X charges to 230 and I get about 100 miles of real range.. the cyber truck will see a lesser reduction than the X does when towing but even if it sees a similar reduction in range 500 will have you easily driving 200 with a 15,000 lb plus trailer

15,000 lbs is 3X the rated tow capacity, and exceeds the towing capability of many trucks. I just don't see that happening. It would be exceptionally dangerous.

 

[dduffey]

The cyber truck will get far more then 150 miles on a charge while towing.. I use my 90D model X every day to tow a 24’ enclosed trailer with a. Total weight of almost 15,000 lbs when I have it fully loaded. My X charges to 230 and I get about 100 miles of real range.. the cyber truck will see a lesser reduction than the X does when towing but even if it sees a similar reduction in range 500 will have you easily driving 200 with a 15,000 lb plus trailer

I know you may not want to hear it, but that is over spec. You also have a over spec rise on the hitch.

I am curious how it pulls though. I have a Y that I run right up to the spec and it is very nice. (3000lbs / 300lbs tongue weight and 3/4" rise).

Mine is also a dual axel, and I put on higher capacity but smaller tires to reduce trailer height, and then installed MPP 2" lift kit to raise the height of the MY. I spoke to the SC first to get their opinion if it would affect tow ratings.

 

[doghousePVD]

The cyber truck will get far more then 150 miles on a charge while towing.. I use my 90D model X every day to tow a 24’ enclosed trailer with a. Total weight of almost 15,000 lbs when I have it fully loaded. My X charges to 230 and I get about 100 miles of real range.. the cyber truck will see a lesser reduction than the X does when towing but even if it sees a similar reduction in range 500 will have you easily driving 200 with a 15,000 lb plus trailer

I am not your nanny but I hope you are only towing that much mass at very slow speeds over very short distances on good surfaces in good weather. If you are using the stock Bosal receiver it likely will disengage from the car when stressed, making the safety chains and emergency stop non-functionable.

You seem to be risking a high likelihood of a dangerous mess — why not get a truck that is rated for that load? Seriously, why not?

 

[Cutch26]

I am not your nanny but I hope you are only towing that much mass at very slow speeds over very short distances on good surfaces in good weather. If you are using the stock Bosal receiver it likely will disengage from the car when stressed, making the safety chains and emergency stop non-functionable.

You seem to be risking a high likelihood of a dangerous mess — why not get a truck that is rated for that load? Seriously, why not?

Speeds now higher than 60 and the roads around here are pretty good.. you can’t even tell the trailer is back there in all honesty, vehicles are capable of much more than the specs say

 

[Cutch26]

I am not your nanny but I hope you are only towing that much mass at very slow speeds over very short distances on good surfaces in good weather. If you are using the stock Bosal receiver it likely will disengage from the car when stressed, making the safety chains and emergency stop non-functionable.

You seem to be risking a high likelihood of a dangerous mess — why not get a truck that is rated for that load? Seriously, why not?

The chain hooks are connected to the vehicle not the reciever.. is the reciever different on newer models where the chain hooks are part of it? Mine is a 2016 90D with tow package.. setup was done by the company that sells the trailer and tested by their employee.. been towing for years like this without a single issue

 

[FLRifleman]

For anyone who may read this thread, please don't use the example to think you can tow whatever feels comfortable. The payload and towing specs printed on the door jam are there for a good reason. It's based in part on the frame strength, engine, transmission, and suspension system. Yes, there may (or may not) be a bit of safety factor built in. However, you should not exceed either the towing or payload specs.

Exceeding those numbers can over time result in a catastrophic structural failure, in addition to damage to the drive train, as well as overload the brakes. That can result in an accident, either due to a mechanical failure or a loss of control. In an accident you will have zero legal defense if overloaded.

 

[mark95476]

Rivian datapoint:

Towing reduced rated 315 miles to actual 115 miles (63% reduction) with the "standard" 135 kWh battery pack. Rivian will have a larger pack.

First real-world Rivian R1T towing test shows huge range loss

The Rivian R1T has a towing capacity of 11,000 lbs. According to the company’s website, towing at that weight will reduce range “by about 50%.” In the first real-world R1T towing test, that number is […]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[ThomasD]

Rivian datapoint:

Towing reduced rated 315 miles to actual 115 miles (63% reduction) with the "standard" 135 kWh battery pack. Rivian will have a larger pack.

First real-world Rivian R1T towing test shows huge range loss

The Rivian R1T has a towing capacity of 11,000 lbs. According to the company’s website, towing at that weight will reduce range “by about 50%.” In the first real-world R1T towing test, that number is […]

driveteslacanada.ca

I would hate to see the range with a high drag trailer/load.