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Israel/Hamas conflict

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Okay, you are correct, it is a link. Thank you for pointing it out, I was confused when I went to the source and saw a very different picture. I apologise to @Jigglypuff - I thought it was a screenshot - weird that it doesn't show the blue 'replying to' lines that it shows in-app. I jumped to a conclusion and was too quick to accuse.

It still seems from the in-app portion that he's replying to the video, since when one replies to a reply in X, it normally will show (in blue) the @User one replies to and the OP user, but in the end, I could be wrong.

I don't deny he criticizes the ADL, but that's a far cry from being anti-Semitic. No organization is beyond critique. And no person - I'm not saying he's perfect - but I just think we can critique him for what he actually does rather than what we imply from his social media posts. Lots of extrapolation going on. He's clearly anti-genocide, but he tends to separate adjacent issues while others conflate those same issues.

I also think that it's beyond ridiculous that anyone can support Hamas, or cheer on atrocities. I understand there is generational trauma on all sides in the region, but the rhetoric of viewing other humans as animals to be slaughtered is one core factor in the conflict.

I love the Jewish concept of Shalom, and wish it could be realized. It's a travesty that my Jewish friends in Canada feel in danger, and they have absolutely nothing to do with what's happening in Israel right now... Somehow our governments have ignored the radicalization of Canadians/Americans - and how our institutions have clearly been influenced by oil money from the region...
You're an apologist for hate. The problem is not that Musk criticized the ADL. The problem is that Musk said something antisemitic when he criticized the ADL, and that is part of a larger pattern of Musk being an antisemite, a hater of Jews. You're using sophistry, playing sleight of hand with your words. I don't know if you're just naive or actually have evil intentions, but the meanings of your words are plain as day.

It's not ridiculous that people support Hamas. Hating Jews is an international past time, a convenient target for people's unhappiness with their lot and evil political and religious figures. What it is is evil.

Antisemitism existed in Canada long before oil money, and it will exist long after we leave the oil in the ground.
 
There is a generational gap in which side people support in this war. Something I posted on another forum earlier today:

I think some of the problem between older people in the west and the younger people is history. The Boomers, but Gen X too grew up knowing that Israel was created on the back of the Holocaust. At least our living relatives who remember the war had a collective guilt about that.Through our childhood Israel was the scrappy underdog who was attacked by their neighbors numerous times and managed to win every time.

For Millennials and Gen Z, Israel has always been the strongest military power in the region. No other nation is willing to take them on head to head. The conflict has evolved into a terrorism/anti-terrorism conflict. Israel has become hyper about security because of this.

The Palestinians have been casting themselves as the oppressed population. Because the terrorists have been coming from that community, the Israelis have been paranoid about them. The Palestinians have been selling their cause in the west in terms of the black people in South Africa and the youth have bought the story because they don't know the history.

What exists in Israel looks a lot like Aparteid on the surface, but the roots of the situation are vastly different.Israel hasn't helped their cause by allowing settlers in Palestinian territory, they have done some overt military actions, and they have been highly reactive when terrorists do attack.

I believe that Israel does have the right to fight back if they have been attacked. And Hamas has engineered things so Israel can't get at them without hurting a lot of innocent civilians. But the optics of killing 11K innocent civilians in response for around 1000 killed is not good optics. It plays into Hamas' PR.

Osama bin Laden did the same thing with 9/11. He knew the US was going to over react and he was going to use that to his advantage which he did. The US ended up throwing away trillions on two wars that didn't really improve much of anything. Afghanistan is a poorer country, but the same people are back in charge. Iraq doesn't have Saddam Hussein anymore, but it's kind of a basket case of a country too.

The antisemitism in the community supporting the Palestinians is being fanned by some actual antisemites who see an opportunity to recruit people to their cause. Most people conflating the state of Israel with Judaism in general helps fuel this too.
 
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There is a generational gap in which side people support in this war. Something I posted on another forum earlier today:

I think some of the problem between older people in the west and the younger people is history. The Boomers, but Gen X too grew up knowing that Israel was created on the back of the Holocaust. At least our living relatives who remember the war had a collective guilt about that.Through our childhood Israel was the scrappy underdog who was attacked by their neighbors numerous times and managed to win every time.

For Millennials and Gen Z, Israel has always been the strongest military power in the region. No other nation is willing to take them on head to head. The conflict has evolved into a terrorism/anti-terrorism conflict. Israel has become hyper about security because of this.

The Palestinians have been casting themselves as the oppressed population. Because the terrorists have been coming from that community, the Israelis have been paranoid about them. The Palestinians have been selling their cause in the west in terms of the black people in South Africa and the youth have bought the story because they don't know the history.

What exists in Israel looks a lot like Aparteid on the surface, but the roots of the situation are vastly different.Israel hasn't helped their cause by allowing settlers in Palestinian territory, they have done some overt military actions, and they have been highly reactive when terrorists do attack.

I believe that Israel does have the right to fight back if they have been attacked. And Hamas has engineered things so Israel can't get at them without hurting a lot of innocent civilians. But the optics of killing 11K innocent civilians in response for around 1000 killed is not good optics. It plays into Hamas' PR.

Osama bin Laden did the same thing with 9/11. He knew the US was going to over react and he was going to use that to his advantage which he did. The US ended up throwing away trillions on two wars that didn't really improve much of anything. Afghanistan is a poorer country, but the same people are back in charge. Iraq doesn't have Saddam Hussein anymore, but it's kind of a basket case of a country too.

The antisemitism in the community supporting the Palestinians is being fanned by some actual antisemites who see an opportunity to recruit people to their cause. Most people conflating the state of Israel with Judaism in general helps fuel this too.
You take the wrong lessons from history and get some facts wrong.

A lot of kids support Hamas because they learned in school and on TikTok that Israel is a white, colonialist, bloodthirsty power that subjugates the poor, innocent Palestinians in open air prison and commits constant crimes against humanity, especially genocide. That the only tiny bit of truth in this narrative is the light skin of many Jews doesn't matter in the face of terrible education. But then remember, it's Baby Boomers and Gen Xers who came up with and taught them all these lies. Every generation has its share of stupid and evil.

Israel doesn't look like apartheid on any level unless you're looking through hate-colored glasses or just want to redefine words 1984 style. Israel has Muslim, Arab, and Druse leaders in government. Every citizen has the right to vote. Israel GTFO of Gaza 18 years ago, and then spent their following 18 years defending themselves from Palestinian violence. This didn't start with Hamas. The Gaza population boomed, and billions flowed into that cesspool. The denizens still spent constant effort trying to kill Jews. Shrug.

The numbers game is simply Hamas propaganda picked up as the dominant narrative. It's an eye-for-an-eye argument, wanting more blind Jews. It's so nice that you feel Jews have a right to self defense. Thanks. We were waiting for your permission to defend ourselves.

The terrorists on the far left and far right both agree that they want a worldwide race war, as for some reason they believe this will lead to a better world, be it a Marxist paradise or a caliphate. Not much difference, frankly, and a lot of the terror groups are also Marxist or communist or something in between. Not much difference, really.

Things went so poorly in Afghanistan because of terrible decision making on the part of Bush Jr, Cheney, and their ilk. They went in without a plan then tried to figure it out as they went. By the time Obama rolled in, the country was long past unsaveable. The moment Obama killed Osama, we should have GTFO. Biden's ballsiest and best move of his presidency was to get us the hell out of that cesspool. It maybe could have been done better, but sometimes you just gotta get the job done.

Blah blah blah.
 
This could bring the Saudis and Israelis together after all since the Houthis have been at war with Saudis for years. If the Israelis send in some commandos to free the ship and take out a lot of Houthis in Yemen the Saudis would be appreciative. This could be a major breakthrough in Middle East peace if they also demolish Hamas. So all of this starting with the massacre oover 1000 civilians by Hamas may have triggered the reverse of what they thought. That still leaves Iran, ISIS and Hezbollah to continue to terrorize the Middle East but they might learn that what Hamas did was not good for their long term survival.
 
The odds of Israel sending in commandos for that ship are slim to none, imo. It's only partially owned by an Israeli billionaire, and there are no Israeli citizens among it's crew. The Saudis certainly can't be happy about Houthi piracy in those very important shipping lanes. They might make some sort of effort, though the hostages complicate the situation.
 
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This could bring the Saudis and Israelis together after all since the Houthis have been at war with Saudis for years. If the Israelis send in some commandos to free the ship and take out a lot of Houthis in Yemen the Saudis would be appreciative. This could be a major breakthrough in Middle East peace if they also demolish Hamas. So all of this starting with the massacre oover 1000 civilians by Hamas may have triggered the reverse of what they thought. That still leaves Iran, ISIS and Hezbollah to continue to terrorize the Middle East but they might learn that what Hamas did was not good for their long term survival.
A major breakthrough? What?

Israeli has made peace with only two Muslim nations, Egypt and Jordan. The peace treaty with Egypt as based on Egypt being humiliated in a previous war and then getting the Sinai back, making them look like victors. It was 100% about face. The Jordanian treat was based on the Hashemites being humiliated in a previous war and getting face back by having influence over Jerusalem. It was 50% about face. Jordan also got the weaponry they needed to keep the Palestinian Arabs subjugated.

As for Saudi Arabia, Israel and the Saudis have never been at war. Also, Israel has nothing much to offer the Saudis. Certainly not any face they'd want.
 
A major breakthrough? What?

Israeli has made peace with only two Muslim nations, Egypt and Jordan. The peace treaty with Egypt as based on Egypt being humiliated in a previous war and then getting the Sinai back, making them look like victors. It was 100% about face. The Jordanian treat was based on the Hashemites being humiliated in a previous war and getting face back by having influence over Jerusalem. It was 50% about face. Jordan also got the weaponry they needed to keep the Palestinian Arabs subjugated.

As for Saudi Arabia, Israel and the Saudis have never been at war. Also, Israel has nothing much to offer the Saudis. Certainly not any face they'd want.
The entire reason for the Hamas terror attack was that Israel was negotiating recognition by Saudi Arabia. The Saudis must have wanted something from Israel. And the major thorn in their side for years has been Yemen. We'll see how all this plays out. It would just be great karma if the House of Saud becomes a a partner with Israel or at least stops financing a lot of the violent nutjobs in the Middle East.
 
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Apple, Disney and IBM to pause ads on X after antisemitic Elon Musk tweet, as did Warner Bros, Paramount, Sony Pictures, and Comcast/NBCUniversal, pause all thier advertising on X, formerly Twitter, two days after owner Elon Musk tweeted his enthusiastic agreement with an antisemitic post.
This is after for example, Apple’s ads had run beside tweets praising Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. (Source: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/17/elon-musk-antisemitic-tweet-apple-pausing-ads#:~:text=IBM%2C%20also%20one%20of%20X's,%E2%80%9Cevil%20organization%E2%80%9D%20in%20response)
 

Original video uploaded to tiktok:
“When I was first asked to work there [at Shifa], I was told there was a part of the hospital I was not to go near, and if I did, I’d be in danger of being shot,” he was quoted as saying.
“Was it explained to you why that was?” asked journalist Irris Makler in the recorded conversation.
“No, but implicit was that it was being used for non-medical purposes,” replied the doctor.
 
You take the wrong lessons from history and get some facts wrong.

A lot of kids support Hamas because they learned in school and on TikTok that Israel is a white, colonialist, bloodthirsty power that subjugates the poor, innocent Palestinians in open air prison and commits constant crimes against humanity, especially genocide. That the only tiny bit of truth in this narrative is the light skin of many Jews doesn't matter in the face of terrible education. But then remember, it's Baby Boomers and Gen Xers who came up with and taught them all these lies. Every generation has its share of stupid and evil.

I know there is a media narrative that kids are being taught this or that terrible thing in school, but while there have been a few examples to support the claims, most of the time kids get nothing. Most Millennials and Gen Z got very little education on the Holocaust in school and they got little in school.

What they do know about the Holocaust was often crafted by outside forces who told them a narrative they wanted to infuse into the population. Russia especially wants to sow maximum conflict in western countries. They have been doing it since the middle of last decade.

As recently as 10 or 15 years ago the vast majority of Americans didn't really care one way or the other about whether someone was Jewish or not. I had a friend who I have lost track of now who was married to an Israeli immigrant for a while. They lived in Dallas, Texas and found even there in the South that if people had any reaction to his being Israeli, it was just curiosity.

He told one anecdote about when his parents visited. They went out to eat and the waitress noticed the accent and asked where they were from. His parents went stiff, but when the waitress was told by my friend that they were from Israel, the only response was "that's cool" and she moved on to the next table. They were shocked she didn't really care they were from Israel.

In any movement there are the hard core believers and then there are people who have much softer feelings about the cause, but are going along with it because the herd seems to be moving in that direction. Bad actors like the social media manipulators from Russia play on this herd instinct to convince people the herd is moving in the direction they want, and it tends to happen.

Change the herd narrative and only the hard core believers will be left. That was the situation about antisemitism 15 years ago.

Israel doesn't look like apartheid on any level unless you're looking through hate-colored glasses or just want to redefine words 1984 style. Israel has Muslim, Arab, and Druse leaders in government. Every citizen has the right to vote. Israel GTFO of Gaza 18 years ago, and then spent their following 18 years defending themselves from Palestinian violence. This didn't start with Hamas. The Gaza population boomed, and billions flowed into that cesspool. The denizens still spent constant effort trying to kill Jews. Shrug.

Most Palestinians live in the West Bank or Gaza which are communities that are much poorer than the rest of Israel. These communities are controlled by Israel, though they also have local Palestinian governments. The voice of these people in the Israeli government is limited.

For a Palestinian to leave one of these areas and enter Israel proper they need to endure long lines at check points and go through extensive security. Many of these people have low paying jobs in Israel and have to enure the time suck and humiliation every day just to earn a living.

Black people in South Africa who lived through Apartheid would probably recognize a lot of these things. The white SA government was straight up racist and were keeping the black South Africans as real, legal second class citizens. The Israelis are doing this because the Palestinian population has bred a large number of terrorists and they are trying to prevent the next terrorist attack.

As I said the reasons are different, but on the surface there are a lot of similarities.

The numbers game is simply Hamas propaganda picked up as the dominant narrative. It's an eye-for-an-eye argument, wanting more blind Jews. It's so nice that you feel Jews have a right to self defense. Thanks. We were waiting for your permission to defend ourselves.

No need to be snarky. I was not giving anyone permission to do anything. People are going to do what they are going to do.

The terrorists on the far left and far right both agree that they want a worldwide race war, as for some reason they believe this will lead to a better world, be it a Marxist paradise or a caliphate. Not much difference, frankly, and a lot of the terror groups are also Marxist or communist or something in between. Not much difference, really.

I don't see anything about race wars on the left. There are people on the far right who want race wars.

Things went so poorly in Afghanistan because of terrible decision making on the part of Bush Jr, Cheney, and their ilk. They went in without a plan then tried to figure it out as they went. By the time Obama rolled in, the country was long past unsaveable. The moment Obama killed Osama, we should have GTFO. Biden's ballsiest and best move of his presidency was to get us the hell out of that cesspool. It maybe could have been done better, but sometimes you just gotta get the job done.

Blah blah blah.

I thought the US actions post 9/11 were incredibly stupid and said so at the time. The US should have pulled the plug on Afghanistan a long time before it did. By the time Osama bin Laden was killed, al Qaeda was badly weakened, even if the US hadn't killed bin Laden the organization probably would have continued to weaken.
 
I don't see anything about race wars on the left. There are people on the far right who want race wars.
The entire DEI/CRT and "Decolonialization" movement divides us by race and is very much a product of the Left.

Now that anti-Semites in major Western cities and Universities have let their masks slip using "Decolonization" for calls of genocide to wipe out Israel - lots of folks on the Left (most certainly the ADL) find themselves in awkward positions and rethinking past support.

A few days after Hamas' barbaric terrorist attack on 10/7 where everyone had a chance to see the videos and reporting, BLM Chicago proudly put the Hamas paraglider symbol on their social media and messaging.
 
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