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Just announced. 500k cars by 2018 instead of 2020

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As someone pointed out earlier, this is simply a problem of scaling, not design & engineering.
What you perceive to be a simple problem isn't simple at all. In fact, scaling efficiently and effectively is THE problem of manufacturing.

Here it is straight from Elon:

"It's worth saying that making one of something is quite easy. Making lots of something consistently that's going to last a long time is extremely hard. In fact, it is way harder to make the machine that makes the machine that it is to make the machine in the first place."

Hard. He didn't say expensive, he said hard.
 
I'm probably more concerned about material quality, fit and finish, and long term reliability than anything else. Regardless of whether you see the M3 competing with Honda/Toyota/Mazda or Audi/BMW, the competitors are fierce in these specific areas.

For the masses, means competing as such.

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-x-approaches-old-jaguar-levels-of-build-qua-1777626087

The comment section is particularly interesting reading.
 
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I'm probably more concerned about material quality, fit and finish, and long term reliability than anything else. Regardless of whether you see the M3 competing with Honda/Toyota/Mazda or Audi/BMW, the competitors are fierce in these specific areas.

For the masses, means competing as such.

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-x-approaches-old-jaguar-levels-of-build-qua-1777626087

The comment section is particularly interesting reading.

Nothing to add, same thoughts here. I really hope that they can improve this in a consistent way and not just depend on Elon sleeping at the end of the line.
 
I'm probably more concerned about material quality, fit and finish, and long term reliability than anything else.
As the owner of two Teslas, I have to say that if fit and finish are your criteria for happiness, you probably want to look elsewhere. My main criterium is an electric drivetrain, so I'm able to mostly look past the fit and finish stuff. When people say things like "for a $100k car," I personally put the vast chunk of that value on the drivetrain and infrastructure. I try to manage my expectations appropriately, and those expectations can't be for a Porsche-quality build. Yet.
 
Boy wouldn't it be great if it were that simple. But, it's not.

First, scaling up a complex manufacturing operation with a complex supply chain isn't simple. It's never simple. It's complicated, and fraught with problems.

Not only does Tesla have to dramatically scale, but their suppliers have to as well. So, if you are a supplier to Tesla, who's funding your production capacity expansion? Are you willing to take on the risk, financially, based on a forecast that seems almost unrealistic? It may not be just Tesla that needs to execute a capital raise. The supply chain has to be in lock-step, especially those suppliers who make unique components. I'm not talking about commodity items like tires, etc. I'm talking about companies who have to front end load the expense of designing new products and programs.

It's much more than throwing money.....

I work in small parts manufacturing. My wife works in complex custom designed tool manufacturing for large aerospace. I'm fully cognizant of the complexity of scaling and sourcing of custom designed products. I'm also of the believe that it usually is simply a matter of throwing money and focus at a supplier when it comes to sourcing and production. Yes the companies have to front end load the expense of some of this, but that's part and parcel of being a manufacturer. And has been correctly pointed out, this is a big build and a huge acceleration, but it still pales in comparison to the number of cars the larger automotive companies are producing. That means the supply chains already exist for volume like this.

In general, for sourcing this complex, you always get backup suppliers and backup quotes for your critical processes/assemblies/parts. You go on site to audit inspection & metrology in advance to certify a supplier can meet your needs and you often have several companies produce first article prototypes to make sure a company can provide what it says it can provide. You get statistics on % failures and returns, and you investigate and get commitments on lead times in advance so you can predict product flow a timeline. You ask for cause and corrective action reports for anything that's not going according to plan. And while you may see suppliers lag, they're ultimately going to do what they can to win and keep your business, particularly if you have a very public and obvious demand.

On the upside, Tesla actually has pre-orders in place (refundable, I readily admit) that gives the suppliers MORE reason to believe the numbers they're being fed aren't just pie in the sky best case forecast numbers. When a manufacturer goes to subsource and asks for pricing, they ALWAYS inflate the number they're supposedly going to buy to force best pricing. At least in this case, the suppliers will have a more transparent view of timelines. Is this all a simple process? No. Is it time consuming? Yes. Is it something that you can throw money and people at to get moving? Yes.

Here it is straight from Elon:

"It's worth saying that making one of something is quite easy. Making lots of something consistently that's going to last a long time is extremely hard. In fact, it is way harder to make the machine that makes the machine that it is to make the machine in the first place."

Hard. He didn't say expensive, he said hard.

That is a good point actually. I'm willing to agree that actually getting custom machines in place to assemble something like the Model 3 will take time. I suspect that's a large part of the reason you see that July 1st deadline, and then you don't actually see him claiming cars will ship until several months later.

Now if you want to talk about payment terms, I DO potentially see a problem there given Tesla's rocky financials. I could see that backfiring on them. Suppliers don't always comply as quickly when you're 90 days overdue for paying your bills.

Full disclosure, I work with a company that provides parts to Tesla, so I have a pretty good sense of what's being asked for on this front. Those of you saying that Tesla is small peanuts to larger companies are only half right. Yes the volumes aren't as high as some of the other automotive companies, but smart businesses diversify whenever possible, and when they see opportunities like this, it's incredibly lucrative if you can get your foot in the door early and prove yourself. Becoming a trusted supplier on a potentially huge new market tends to rate pretty high on the priority list. Particularly when getting your foot in the door on this particular project means being ahead of the curve as the automotive industry evolves into an (at least partially) electrified future.

I'm probably more concerned about material quality, fit and finish, and long term reliability than anything else. Regardless of whether you see the M3 competing with Honda/Toyota/Mazda or Audi/BMW, the competitors are fierce in these specific areas.

For the masses, means competing as such.

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-x-approaches-old-jaguar-levels-of-build-qua-1777626087

The comment section is particularly interesting reading.

I'm fully in agreement with you here. I think that may actually be the big sticking point on these cars, and for me personally. Teslas, groundbreaking though they may be, have enough quality and reliability problems that if one thing prevents me from following through on my order, the worries about having a 1st generation model car with potentially a lot of break in problems that only Tesla can fix will probably be it. I know they tend to take care of their customers, but can they really continue the level of service they're known for when they quadruple or quintuple the cars they need to service in a 12-18 month period?

Please don't misunderstand my previous posts - I do see some serious potential pitfalls in this ramp up. And I do have my own set of concerns. But the ramp up to volume production is actually lower on the list than stuff like this and their borderline abysmal financials.
 
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And has been correctly pointed out, this is a big build and a huge acceleration, but it still pales in comparison to the number of cars the larger automotive companies are producing. That means the supply chains already exist for volume like this.
Yes, but the huge number of cars being produced by other automotive companies isn't all that relevant to Tesla. They are on their first mass-volume iteration of a new manufacturing process of a new design with new parts. These aren't suppliers and parts that they have a long and stable relationship with. If funds were unlimited, I suppose you could simply throw money at the problem, but I think we all understand that it's a finite resource.
 
Yeah, I'm not one to go in for conspiracy theories or that sort of nonsense, but I do think a healthy dose of skepticism is called for given the state of journalism in this day and age. Particularly headlines and journalism that seem aimed primarily at investors. And particularly where it involves companies that are working against heavily entrenched and profitable industries. I know for sure what Elon Musk said in the earnings calls, having read the transcript. I know that when supposed experts estimated the kwh costs of the batteries for Tesla, they were set straight by the company. Beyond that, unidentified sources saying it'll be costly to meet those schedules (obviously) and/or difficult (obviously) seem to unreliable in the absence of details. Is it easy to ramp up a high volume production line? No, but the notion that it's somehow impossible seems suspect.

15, even 10 years ago we heard similar proclamations about the space industry and SpaceX's chances. I'm not saying everything Elon Musk touches just works <coughModelXDoorscough> but he has proven to be an effective leader in the face of supposedly insurmountable odds. And in this case, he's been pretty adamant about not trying to add a bunch of complex bells and whistles to the Model ≡ which should make it substantially easier.

With regard to the relevance of other companies producing in mass quantity, I was simply pointing out that the infrastructure and supply chains exist, domestically, to produce similar parts to what Tesla will be after. That alone removes a huge obstacle. Remember when Apple was claiming it was cost prohibitive to build the iphone in the US because the supply chains simply don't exist, at all, for anyone? That's what I'm getting at.
 
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If you read the article, NO supplier was even quoted. But there were a bunch of "analysts" who think Tesla can't do it.

If you read the article, you would see that Reuters spoke to suppliers about this. You know, that is what news organizations do.

Do you actually think that a supplier would want to be "quoted" about their concern on their inability to deliver? Yeah, that would go over real well in their on-going contract discussions with Tesla. LOL.
 
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Scale is hard. Everyone with even a little experience doing it knows that. Elon has set an aggressive timeframe that is designed to push his suppliers, contractors, and employees. That was necessary and it was the right thing to do.

Everyone also needs to understand that while the goal as set is a one that is possible, achieving it is still rather unlikely. Everything must align perfectly for that to happen, and everything is not going to align perfectly. Anyone who has ever been involved in the production of complex systems knows how utterly unlikely that is.

We all reserved cars that weren't supposed to enter production until 18 months after we signed on the dotted line. Is it really going to kill anyone to have to wait 6 months longer?
 
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So Tesla tells these suppliers of the production plans because they are not Tesla suppliers. Tesla, was just chatting with the suppliers to Reuters office supplies because they had nothing better to do.

Well, that makes sense.

Denial is not a river in France.

Everyone on these forums or who follows Tesla understands the plan to increase production in 2018. That's not exactly news.
 
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So Tesla tells these suppliers of the production plans because they are not Tesla suppliers. Tesla, was just chatting with the suppliers to Reuters office supplies because they had nothing better to do.

Well, that makes sense.

Denial is not a river in France.
Here's the link to the article for those who didn't read it.
Exclusive: Suppliers question Tesla's goals for Model 3 output

The only lines that can be interpreted to be information by Tesla suppliers are these:
"In the past three months, Tesla (TSLA.O) has told suppliers the company was doubling its original production projections to 100,000 Model 3s in 2017 and 400,000 in 2018, several supplier industry executives familiar with the plans told Reuters."

"One complication is that Tesla has not finalized the Model 3 design and specifications, said automaking consultants and supply executives who asked not to be identified because Tesla prohibits them from disclosing contract details."

However, the rest of the article constantly mixes "industry consultants" and "supply executives." And it is far from clear that these "supply executives" necessarily are all Tesla suppliers (although Reuters always makes sure to constantly mention they are automotive suppliers, so your "office supplier" strawman example doesn't seem to work). For example, the article gives an example of a FCA supplier which questions if one of FCA's plant expansions can be done in 2 years (as an example of how difficult Tesla's plan is).

I'm sure there's probably one Tesla supplier in there, but the way they word the article, it is completely unclear if the Tesla supplier "expressed concern" (they may have simply provide some of the timeline information). The only concrete examples of questioning Tesla's timeline is done by consultants or comparing an example from a supplier of some other company (like the FCA one mentioned above).

As for the timelines mentioned in the article, all of it is public info Elon mentioned already in detail in the recent earnings call. He said 100k-200k Model 3 in 2017 and 300k-400k Model 3 in 2018 (500k total target moved forward from 2020). Supplier deadline July 2017. Design not finished, but projected to finish in end of June this year.
Tesla Q1 Earnings Call: Tidbits You May Have Missed
Tesla aims to complete final Model 3 design by June 30

None of it was information that you had to be a Tesla supplier to know.
 
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As the owner of two Teslas, I have to say that if fit and finish are your criteria for happiness, you probably want to look elsewhere. My main criterium is an electric drivetrain, so I'm able to mostly look past the fit and finish stuff.

I'm sorry, @ohmman , I simply find this sad. This level of QC problems frankly isn't acceptable in any car, at any price level.
 
Everyone on these forums or who follows Tesla understands the plan to increase production in 2018. That's not exactly news.

Funny!
Some people here believe that Reuters interviewed random suppliers who didn't have any information other than what is in this forum and wrote an article about it.

And even if they quoted a specific supplier who would probably be violating their nda, then it would be "well that is only one person and maybe they are only supplying the cup holders.

Well ok. That makes total sense.