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Keep phantom drain under control

Hello everyone!
One more question related to the omnipresent phantom drain... boring!
I got my 2020 3P back in Jan 2020 and clocked over 75k miles since then. What a daily driver, it is fantastic indeed.
Nevertheless, I have some issues with it that I tried to solve through Tesla service, amounting to nothing on more than one instance. Maybe I can understand more with your help.
Since the very beginning I have observed a strong "phantom drain". The percentage just drops as a stone when the car is left alone, be it plugged or unplugged. The amount lost is dependent by the outside temperature, but it struck me as being always higher than what one might expect (and read on forums).

For example last winter, a night (5.5 hours) spent unplugged at 0C / 32F, would cost me 7% of the battery. No special mode enabled (no dog nor camp), no heating, no sentry.

Ten days ago, I plugged the car into an 11kw Tesla wall charger outside, at about 13C / 55F. I set the car to charge to 65%, since I was going to stay there for a couple of days and had no need to keep the battery at 80+% from the beginning. The car reached 65% easily, but went down to 58% after 10 hours. The car was plugged in continuously, not checked upon even once, no sentry mode, no nothing.

Yesterday the car spent 13 hours in the garage (unplugged) at a stable 15C / 60F. As always, nothing at all was active. 5% loss.

I went to Tesla at least 5 times for this issue, they always said it was ok, it was due to external factors and to be considered normal etc etc. By now the warranty has expired (at least the bumper-to-bumper one), many software updates came and left, but nothing changed.
Interestingly, and I do not know if this relates to this problem, this specific car takes at least 30 seconds to a minute to wake up when I open the app. I have a 2021 3P in the app as well, that one wakes up way faster and does not present the same drain in these situations.

Going into another winter with this car is going to represent a problem for me. My commutes are often longer and In many locations where I will spend nights for work I won't be able to plug in the car, at temperatures fluctuating between -6C/20F and 10C/50F.

My question to you: would installing a tracking app such as TeslaFi and similar help track what is going on with this car, or does this seem like a lost cause and defective "something" to you?

Thank you for reading the whole thing and maybe chiming in, it has been a real issue for me and will bring me to get rid of this car if not solved.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
14,968
19,327
San Diego
My question to you: would installing a tracking app such as TeslaFi and similar help track what is going on with this car, or does this seem like a lost cause and defective "something" to you?

No, don't do that.

As always, nothing at all was active. 5% loss.

What happened in the next 24 hours (without touching the car)? I'd generally ignore what happens in the first 12 hours or so. Especially if there are large temp changes and especially if the snowflake comes on.
 

NewbieT

Active Member
Aug 16, 2019
1,705
1,222
North West
Try this (once). Turn off sentry. Turn off climate and climate keeper. Reset your Tesla password. Remove any phone widgets. Once parked up don’t open the Tesla App.

The car should then be able to sleep without sentry keeping it awake or some 3rd party app polling the car and waking it up. If it sleeps like a baby the % should be about the same over night. Maybe 1 or 2 % difference. If it doesn’t, log an SC ticket.

TeslaFi might be useful to tell you if it does sleep or not but it won’t tell you why it isn’t.
 

HavingFun

New Member
May 8, 2020
2
0
OH
Hello everyone!
One more question related to the omnipresent phantom drain... boring!
I got my 2020 3P back in Jan 2020 and clocked over 75k miles since then. What a daily driver, it is fantastic indeed.
Nevertheless, I have some issues with it that I tried to solve through Tesla service, amounting to nothing on more than one instance. Maybe I can understand more with your help.
Since the very beginning I have observed a strong "phantom drain". The percentage just drops as a stone when the car is left alone, be it plugged or unplugged. The amount lost is dependent by the outside temperature, but it struck me as being always higher than what one might expect (and read on forums).

For example last winter, a night (5.5 hours) spent unplugged at 0C / 32F, would cost me 7% of the battery. No special mode enabled (no dog nor camp), no heating, no sentry.

Ten days ago, I plugged the car into an 11kw Tesla wall charger outside, at about 13C / 55F. I set the car to charge to 65%, since I was going to stay there for a couple of days and had no need to keep the battery at 80+% from the beginning. The car reached 65% easily, but went down to 58% after 10 hours. The car was plugged in continuously, not checked upon even once, no sentry mode, no nothing.

Yesterday the car spent 13 hours in the garage (unplugged) at a stable 15C / 60F. As always, nothing at all was active. 5% loss.

I went to Tesla at least 5 times for this issue, they always said it was ok, it was due to external factors and to be considered normal etc etc. By now the warranty has expired (at least the bumper-to-bumper one), many software updates came and left, but nothing changed.
Interestingly, and I do not know if this relates to this problem, this specific car takes at least 30 seconds to a minute to wake up when I open the app. I have a 2021 3P in the app as well, that one wakes up way faster and does not present the same drain in these situations.

Going into another winter with this car is going to represent a problem for me. My commutes are often longer and In many locations where I will spend nights for work I won't be able to plug in the car, at temperatures fluctuating between -6C/20F and 10C/50F.

My question to you: would installing a tracking app such as TeslaFi and similar help track what is going on with this car, or does this seem like a lost cause and defective "something" to you?

Thank you for reading the whole thing and maybe chiming in, it has been a real issue for me and will bring me to get rid of this car if not solved.
Check cabin overheat protection setting (a summer draw down)
During cold weather draw downs, have you checked your cabin temperature to ensure no heat settings are on?
 
Hello all
Thank you so much for chiming in and excuse please my late reply. I wanted to install the new software and give it a bit of time to work its magic and show results to share with you.

The car logged an overnight loss of 4.3% due to "vehicle standby" (my car's software is in Italian, I'm translating and it won't be identical to the english version of the software), with the recommendation to keep the vehicle plugged in to minimise losses while parked.
It's not great help... what do you think? All other voices on the list showed no recommendations, simply "Optimal".

Nothing was on, the temp hovering around 45-50 F.
 
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AAKEE

Active Member
Jan 8, 2021
1,240
1,865
Sweden
Hello all
Thank you so much for chiming in and excuse please my late reply. I wanted to install the new software and give it a bit of time to work its magic and show results to share with you.

The car logged an overnight loss of 4.3% due to "vehicle standby" (my car's software is in Italian, I'm translating and it won't be identical to the english version of the software), with the recommendation to keep the vehicle plugged in to minimise losses while parked.
It's not great help... what do you think? All other voices on the list showed no recommendations, simply "Optimal".

Nothing was on, the temp hovering around 45-50 F.
The battery cooling of does not show many percent in my car. Maybe one or two.

One thing people do not seem to talk about is the effect of a BMS overestimation of tge battery capacity.

If the battery capacity is overestimated the SOC will be lower than the one we see on the display (while driving it is calculated, not measured; therefore it is a bit preliminary).
After parking when the battery has low load and when sleeping no load the OCV can ve measured. OCV is directly linked to the teue SOC. The car updates the SOC after parking when these values is present.
An overestimate causes the SOC to drop after the OVC reading is present.
(When the BMS underestimates the capacity, the opposite happens.)

An overestimate can be a part of the issue, this might account for a few percent depending on how long the ladt drive was.

At cold ambient you might loose displayed SOC due to the cold battery. This migh account for a little part of the loss.

High SOC cause higher self drain from the battery, this might cause a very little part over a day (should not be much).

Sentry is off, of course?
 
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I tend to leave the car at different percentages in order to optimise the calibration of the BMS. I read somewhere that helps...
Sentry is always off, I never use it. I also never open the app.

This loss of charge happens on a regular basis, every autumn and winter it is the same. My other car does not do it in the very same circumstances.

Last night, same story. Stopped charging around 23:30 at 60%, 9 hours later at -2/0C (28/32F) it's down to 54%. The energy app attributes it all to "standby" with the recommendation to keep the car plugged in.

Any ideas for a practical approach to the issue?

EDIT: If you get the snowflake icon, is the unavailable part of the battery subtracted from the percentage? Around what temperatures do you get said snowflake? And from which temperatures are you used to see a full regen bar?
 
Somehow interestingly, I now have both the 2020 and the 2021 M3P parked at the same spot outside, next to each other. They've been stationary since Monday (the 2020) and Tuesday (the 2021). It's 43F/6C outside at the moment. The 2020 has a snowflake in the app, the 2021 does not. How comes?
 

Bouba

Active Member
Sep 23, 2021
1,455
1,374
France
Somehow interestingly, I now have both the 2020 and the 2021 M3P parked at the same spot outside, next to each other. They've been stationary since Monday (the 2020) and Tuesday (the 2021). It's 43F/6C outside at the moment. The 2020 has a snowflake in the app, the 2021 does not. How comes?
What about other temperatures during the day? If the thermometer is off, perhaps your car spends too much time conditioning the battery ?
 

BigNick

Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Dec 3, 2017
2,028
2,210
Pennsylvania, USA
Somehow interestingly, I now have both the 2020 and the 2021 M3P parked at the same spot outside, next to each other. They've been stationary since Monday (the 2020) and Tuesday (the 2021). It's 43F/6C outside at the moment. The 2020 has a snowflake in the app, the 2021 does not. How comes?
Check back tomorrow after one more day of "cold soak" and the 2021 M3P might have a blue snowflake.
 
Last night, same story. Stopped charging around 23:30 at 60%, 9 hours later at -2/0C (28/32F) it's down to 54%. The energy app attributes it all to "standby" with the recommendation to keep the car plugged in.

This might be down to how this is translated (as you mentioned) but after googling Tesla Standby, there is an actual setting for this, and is not the same as the car sleeping. It seems to be related to the FSD/EAP summon feature as others mentioned, which you said you don't have. I'm wondering if the software is stuck with the feature enabled in the background, as the SoC losses seem to match what is normal for a car that doesnt sleep.

I know others have already said not to try TeslaFi, but I use it and it is very easy to see when the car idles vs sleeps. You can even just use the 2 week free trial to see whats going on.
 
What about other temperatures during the day? If the thermometer is off, perhaps your car spends too much time conditioning the battery ?
It has been pretty stable around here during the last couple of days. Usually a low of 41F/5C in the night and a high of 45F/7C. According to the Climate section of the iOS app, both cars know it is 41F/5C outside as I'm typing.
Check back tomorrow after one more day of "cold soak" and the 2021 M3P might have a blue snowflake.
I will indeed check again tomorrow and report back! I'm used to not opening the app when not indispensable, as to try and keep drain at bay.
This might be down to how this is translated (as you mentioned) but after googling Tesla Standby, there is an actual setting for this, and is not the same as the car sleeping. It seems to be related to the FSD/EAP summon feature as others mentioned, which you said you don't have. I'm wondering if the software is stuck with the feature enabled in the background, as the SoC losses seem to match what is normal for a car that doesnt sleep.

I know others have already said not to try TeslaFi, but I use it and it is very easy to see when the car idles vs sleeps. You can even just use the 2 week free trial to see whats going on.
I did not use such apps based on the assumption that giving access to the car to a third party could
1. be dangerous (to be honest, I'm not sure what anyone would do with digital access to a car geographically on the other side of the world...)
2. link the car to something that goes wrong and does not unlink, therefore worsening the drain and further complicating matters.

The two weeks trial is tempting though... and holds so much promise! I'll sleep on it (since the car possibly isn't) and maybe give it a try tomorrow. Do you have a long experience with it? Any reason why you chose TeslaFi over other players?
 

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