Lemon Law Time?

[ABCCBA]

@RaceRat Do you have a service work order for each and every attempt? If so, does it clearly identify the problem reported and the actions taken? If so, add up the number of days reported on each service order counting the day the order was opened to the day the order was closed.

You have a very specific process that you need to follow. Google the Arizona Lemon Law or go to the Arizona Attorney General's website and get the specifics. You have a very specific amount of time and miles before you lose your rights. And, just because you reserve those rights by filing notice, does not mean you have to follow through. Without going into details, as you can obtain the specific legal process from the website I mentioned or probably the Tesla documents you received when you bought the vehicle. I do know that the first step is to meet the criteria posted previously. Then you must notify the Manufacturer in writing. That just protects you and starts the clock. If you fail to follow the process, you will lose all rights under the law and then simply have to hope and wish for goodwill.

The same way that you have specific rights and obligations, so too does the manufacturer, once you file written notice. At that time, they are provided a Final Attempt at solving the issues. If not, then the process moves forward. However, I doubt it makes it that far and they complete the official Lemon Law Process. Rather, the manufacturers prefer to voluntarily exchange or repurchase the vehicle. Any vehicle that completes the Lemon Law process has Lemon Law attached to the title and is usually unsellable. But, if it is voluntarily exchanged our repurchased, the manufacturer can fix it and resell it with no blemish on the title.

Read the law specific to your state and file the required notice to protect yourself. Filing the notice costs you no more than the postage to send the one page letter Certified Mail.

 

[RatRace]

So to update, that I got the car back, and after a few days on the road it happened again. I sent in the debug reports. The service team was very apologetic about the issue. As it appears someone dropped the ball and that the techs were not communicating with the engineers/ on diagnosing a resolution. They got a list of things now to check and replace, but i feel they are now just replacing parts until eventually it goes away and they have no real diagnosis of the issue.

This brings to mind that if in their system that its showing everything is working as it should, which it clearly is not that how am I to believe that this has not effected the reliability of the car and its key components for future issues.

I am being as transparent with the team at the service center as I believe in Tesla and its product that I am a mere statistical anomaly. I hope that they work with me on options, as I have submitted for Lemon Law just to get the ball rolling. Like a member said that I can simply rescind my case later on.

I am confident though in Tesla's outstanding customer service that it won't go south.

 

[sorka]

Would it make more sense to file for lemon law or just sell/trade in the car?

You'd still be liable for the miles you put on the car with lemon law, so they would not be giving you the full price of the car back.

My Corvette was bought back under California's lemon law. It put 18K miles on it, had it for 1.5 years. I received:

1) Full purchase price + sales tax.
2) Two years of vehicle registration.
3) All attorney fees paid.
4) An extra $5K for my trouble.

 

[MDinFL]

I was a Lemon Law arbitrator in Florida and I also lemon law'd a BMW. The Lemon Law in Florida is pretty consumer-friendly. There is a bit of either/or in the law. The 3 repair attempts and out-of-service days create presumptions. But the law requires only that the arbitrators find that the defect is a nonconformity that affects the safety, utility or value of the vehicle. There are a number of Lemon Law cases in Florida, for example, that forced Toyota to buy back cars because the navigation system would not give good directions and Toyota didn't know how to make it work right. In my own case, we had two problems -- the station wagon liftgate and inaccuracy of the Nav because BMW went with a cheaper supplier that was using old data. The Board ended up focusing on nav questions during the hearing more than the liftgate, which was repaired three times. While on a lunch break, BMW asked to settle with me if I would keep the car. Since BMW no longer made 5 series wagons, I figured it was worth getting some money and keeping the car. BMW paid me over $8,000 to keep the car.

I was curious and here is the AZ BBB summary of AZ Lemon Law. http://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/AZ-LLsummary.pdf As you can see, the sentences refer to presumptions. But the finding that is required is "If the manufacturer, its agent or authorized dealer is unable to conform the motor vehicle to any applicable express warranty by repairing or correcting a nonconformity after a reasonable number of attempts" Here is the purpose of the law "The lemon law covers any defect or condition that substantially impairs the use and value of the motor vehicle to the consumer."

So, if the problem you are experiencing has been acknowledged by the manufacturer but they have said "there's nothing we can do" you can then say that you've had a "reasonable number of repair attempts" because any further attempts would be futile. I had that exact testimony in my BMW case when asked why I hadn't attempted to repair the nav three times. I said "because I was told that there was nothing that could be done and the law only requires a reasonable number of repair attempts. It made no sense to try for three times because it would have had the same result."

So I think you would have a valid Lemon Law claim. By now you may have realized that I am a lawyer, but not in AZ. At least in Florida, where I practice, the Lemon Law procedure is pretty simple to initiate, but you need to adhere to its requirements to the letter. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, find a Lemon Law lawyer in AZ to handle it. It will cost you a little, but the end result may be worth it.

 

[Max*]

There are a number of Lemon Law cases in Florida, for example, that forced Toyota to buy back cars because the navigation system would not give good directions and Toyota didn't know how to make it work right. In my own case, we had two problems -- the station wagon liftgate and inaccuracy of the Nav because BMW went with a cheaper supplier that was using old data. The Board ended up focusing on nav questions during the hearing more than the liftgate, which was repaired three times. While on a lunch break, BMW asked to settle with me if I would keep the car. Since BMW no longer made 5 series wagons, I figured it was worth getting some money and keeping the car. BMW paid me over $8,000 to keep the car.

That's a can of worms that was just opened. Tesla nav is horrible...

 

[scottm]

Maybe if you invoke lemon law on Tesla, nav will guide you off the nearest cliff.

Be careful out there!

 

[MDinFL]

Coming from a BMW, I'm not sure it could be worse than that. I use the Google Maps on my Android phone and it is much better. The real question becomes, do you want to get rid of the car because the nav is unsatisfactory and ask for a replacement vehicle under the Lemon Law. It is the owner's choice. So you could win, get a new vehicle and still have the same problem. I believe the Lemon Law would apply to the next vehicle, but the value calculations might become messy. This would be an instance where EM would not be able to cancel your order. But he may simply refuse to give you a new car, if you were successful, and let you fight with Tesla in court.

I had the nav issues with my car, but liked my car a lot more than I hated the nav. So I dealt with it.

 

[chibi_kurochan]

So to update, that I got the car back, and after a few days on the road it happened again. I sent in the debug reports. The service team was very apologetic about the issue. As it appears someone dropped the ball and that the techs were not communicating with the engineers/ on diagnosing a resolution. They got a list of things now to check and replace, but i feel they are now just replacing parts until eventually it goes away and they have no real diagnosis of the issue.

This brings to mind that if in their system that its showing everything is working as it should, which it clearly is not that how am I to believe that this has not effected the reliability of the car and its key components for future issues.

I am being as transparent with the team at the service center as I believe in Tesla and its product that I am a mere statistical anomaly. I hope that they work with me on options, as I have submitted for Lemon Law just to get the ball rolling. Like a member said that I can simply rescind my case later on.

I am confident though in Tesla's outstanding customer service that it won't go south.

Just curious if you ever got this resolve? You may PM me directly instead of replying on the thread. Thanks!