Yes. (And the EPA doesn't do the tests -- manufacturers test their own vehicles.)
No.
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Let's discuss Dual Motor range
- Thread starter ModelNforNerd
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Yes. (And the EPA doesn't do the tests -- manufacturers test their own vehicles.)
No.
I'm guessing that this is because the S75D was originally tested in 2016 (and likely not retested in subsequent years) whereas the S100D was first tested in 2018, so there were probably some engineering/efficiency improvements in those 2 years (maybe in charging efficiency) that are reflected in the 2018 S100D test results numbers but not in the older 2016 S75D numbers.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
So the official D eMPG should be exactly the same as the P, then.
It’ll be interesting how it plays out in actual use.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
So much this. The little bit of extra is helpful for shortening very long trips where you can cut a corner a little safer/faster on the SC network but it isn’t close to critical.
I’m living day-to-day w/230mi nominal & it’s extremely rare to even consider range compared w/“is my tank full” thoughts w/an ICE.
Dr. J
Active Member
This is probably above my head, but going back to that document, they ran the car down from a full charge on the EPA test (which is decidedly not "real world") and made it 495.11 miles. What I remember @Troy telling us is that the mfg. may choose to use 70% of that value (346.577 miles) or some lower number. Tesla selected 310 miles, presumably to better represent "real world" range (underselling). That's 89.45% of the permissible number, IIRC. That would *nearly* cover a 10.8% change in efficiency, @david_42. But I have no idea how the MPGe numbers are calculated.
I have a spreadsheet that shows the range numbers of all Tesla cars. I update it whenever there is new information. For example, in May, Consumer Reports tested the Model 3 LR's range at 65 mph and scored 350 miles (link). So, I updated the table. You can see that it shows 350 mi at 65 mph for the Model 3 LR with the aero covers on. Consumer Reports also tested a Model S and a Model X. I added those scores too.
Today, I have updated this table based on the latest MPGe numbers for the Model 3 P shown on the Monroney sticker here. We don't have the dyno scores for the Model 3 P yet. I checked the EPA website and the document is not there yet. I will update the numbers again once we have the dyno scores.
Today, I have updated this table based on the latest MPGe numbers for the Model 3 P shown on the Monroney sticker here. We don't have the dyno scores for the Model 3 P yet. I checked the EPA website and the document is not there yet. I will update the numbers again once we have the dyno scores.
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Welcome back to the party. Typo on SRD EPA range, should be 215. How many of the green cells are based on your analysis instead of Tesla/EPA documentation? It'd be nice to annotate them, like you're using white for your estimations on the highway dyno column.
Why different results for the LRD 18" vs the P with 18"? Without the performance upgrade package, isn't it the exact same vehicle except for binned motors/inverters and software?
ℬête Noire
Active Member
Agreed, at least for a number of these columns. There may end up being something different somewhere from software (or somehow hardware that isn't apparent yet) but there's not really any evidence supporting that yet. The UDDS results from the CARB where the LR-D and the P were exactly the same number strongly suggests that we're going to see extremely similar if not exactly the same number out of any standardized testing whose procedures don't call on the P to fully utilize it's capability to accelerate (thus push into what's going to be somewhat less efficient than the LR-D's top acceleration rate).
Model 3 AWD / Performance - lower UDDS Range!
P.S. In "actual use" the P range is likely to be lower to due drivers periodically stomping on it, otherwise why did you get the P anyway?
But I'm not sure what's the best way that that fits into this table?
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Exactly, given the same 18” wheels/tires, the results are going to be very similar, IMHO. Much of the table is not based solely on vehicle test results but instead is predicted by a combination of factors that @Troy assumed. As presented, it can be hard to distinguish the two.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
The first column, EPA dyno, has colour coding for actual vs estimate. Not sure why the rest aren't? Although some columns are always extrapolations. There are notes and key of sorts for it that aren't linked here (and I'm not sure where it is).
Good work ladI have a spreadsheet that shows the range numbers of all Tesla cars. I update it whenever there is new information. For example, in May, Consumer Reports tested the Model 3 LR's range at 65 mph and scored 350 miles (link). So, I updated the table. You can see that it shows 350 mi at 65 mph for the Model 3 LR with the aero covers on. Consumer Reports also tested a Model S and a Model X. I added those scores too.
Today, I have updated this table based on the latest MPGe numbers for the Model 3 P shown on the Monroney sticker here. We don't have the dyno scores for the Model 3 P yet. I checked the EPA website and the document is not there yet. I will update the numbers again once we have the dyno scores.
I have updated the table again. The new table is below. I forgot about the CARB document here. The 455.32 mi shown here is the EPA city dyno score.
Before somebody says that must be a completely different number, let me prove it to you that 455.32 mi is actually the EPA city dyno test score. If you look at the other CARB document here, it shows 495.1 mi for the Model 3 LR. It also says UDDS above that number which stands for Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule aka the city test. Now, if you check out the EPA dyno test scores here, on page 6 you can see that it shows 495.11 mi. It also says UDDS on the same page.
These dyno scores are first multiplied by 0.7 to convert them to city and highway range numbers. For example, 455.32 city dyno score for the Model 3 P means 455.32 * 0.7= 318.72 mi city range. The 120 MPGe is calculated from this 318.72 mi number. You might say, where did the 0.7 come from? That's the default multiplier used by all EV makers. Tesla also uses 0.7 but only for the Model 3. They use higher multipliers for all S/X cars.
Why do they need a multiplier, to begin with? Because the dyno tests are performed at unrealistically low speeds. The average speed is 21 mph for the city dyno test and 48 mph for the highway dyno test. That's why the scores are unrealistically high like 455 mi or 495 mi. I don't know why they picked 48 mph instead of something more realistic like 75 mph. Maybe the cars heat up too much during the test because there is not enough air flow.
Let me show you the 120 MPGe calculation:
From Model 3 LR's EPA tests we know that the wall consumption was 89.4 kWh. EPA assumes that 1 gallon of energy equals to 33.7 kWh. Therefore they want to find out the range per 1 gallon aka per 33.7 kWh energy. If the city range is 318.72 mi and the wall consumption is 89.4 kWh to achieve that range, what is the range per 33.7 kWh (per 1 gallon) energy? 33.7 kWh * 318.72 mi / 89.4 kWh = 120.15 MPGe. That's how they calculate the MPGe numbers. MPGe means range per 33.7 kWh wall consumption. Anyway, here is the new table:
Before somebody says that must be a completely different number, let me prove it to you that 455.32 mi is actually the EPA city dyno test score. If you look at the other CARB document here, it shows 495.1 mi for the Model 3 LR. It also says UDDS above that number which stands for Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule aka the city test. Now, if you check out the EPA dyno test scores here, on page 6 you can see that it shows 495.11 mi. It also says UDDS on the same page.
These dyno scores are first multiplied by 0.7 to convert them to city and highway range numbers. For example, 455.32 city dyno score for the Model 3 P means 455.32 * 0.7= 318.72 mi city range. The 120 MPGe is calculated from this 318.72 mi number. You might say, where did the 0.7 come from? That's the default multiplier used by all EV makers. Tesla also uses 0.7 but only for the Model 3. They use higher multipliers for all S/X cars.
Why do they need a multiplier, to begin with? Because the dyno tests are performed at unrealistically low speeds. The average speed is 21 mph for the city dyno test and 48 mph for the highway dyno test. That's why the scores are unrealistically high like 455 mi or 495 mi. I don't know why they picked 48 mph instead of something more realistic like 75 mph. Maybe the cars heat up too much during the test because there is not enough air flow.
Let me show you the 120 MPGe calculation:
From Model 3 LR's EPA tests we know that the wall consumption was 89.4 kWh. EPA assumes that 1 gallon of energy equals to 33.7 kWh. Therefore they want to find out the range per 1 gallon aka per 33.7 kWh energy. If the city range is 318.72 mi and the wall consumption is 89.4 kWh to achieve that range, what is the range per 33.7 kWh (per 1 gallon) energy? 33.7 kWh * 318.72 mi / 89.4 kWh = 120.15 MPGe. That's how they calculate the MPGe numbers. MPGe means range per 33.7 kWh wall consumption. Anyway, here is the new table:
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Dr. J
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ℬête Noire
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I hate it when Mommy and Daddy sleep in separate rooms and won't talk to each other.
Thomas Edison
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No one hears youI hate it when Mommy and Daddy sleep in separate rooms and won't talk to each other.
The US version of Tesla’s Model 3 site mentions 215 for SR AWD and 220 for RWD. It’s been discussed in this thread and others.
@Troy - I think he means this:
It's at the very bottom of Model 3 | Tesla, the 8th notch on the left.
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