Letter to Mr. Musk from a 1-day old outdated Model S owner

[Garlan Garner]

I want a pony. With a clown riding on it. Standing on the top of a Model X. With a 900 mile range. On a beach. In Hawaii. For free.

See how effective that was?

Yes, I do feel bad for the original poster. But expecting that Tesla is going to give him a $10,000 discount, or magically remanufacture his car with all new hardware... that's just not realistic. He can ask all he wants, but he might be better served by asking something plausible of Tesla, such as:

- To stop with the top secret Apple-like upgrade path, and simply go with model years like everyone else.
- To make hardware changes well in advance of when they announce them, so recent purchasers don't feel so disenfranchised

It's not about not having heart, it's about being realistic.

I'm not surprised.
I expect more responses like this.

 

[apacheguy]

Ugh. Here we go again. A thread like this pops up literally EVERY time Tesla makes a product announcement.

 

[ttupper92618]

I'm not surprised.
I expect more responses like this.

Why would you consider it unkind to witness someone yearning after the extremely improbable and urging them to reconsider? It seems like you conflate encouraging magical thinking with "having heart".

Much of what OP outlined isn't really possible. Tesla can't upgrade older cars to the new technology, just like Apple can't turn an iPhone 6s into an iPhone 7. It's not a matter of being unkind, it's just a matter of what is possible / plausible and what isn't.

From a business perspective, Tesla cannot give every customer who bought a car within a month of a technology change a refund equal to the depreciation of their vehicle. That would cost the company literally millions of dollars, which would be a pretty irresponsible way to treat shareholders. Where is the line, you see? Let me give you an example: Tesla is building something like 80K cars this year. So if Tesla did as the author asks, and went back a month or so and coughed up 10K to every owner, it would cost the company over 61 million dollars.

Is that fair to shareholders? Future customers? Customers who bought 1 month and 1 day ago?

It all sounds so very simple. But, it isn't. And it's not heartless or cruel to help someone understand that.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Ugh. Here we go again. A thread like this pops up literally EVERY time Tesla makes a product announcement.

Same behavior - Same result.

 

[mhan00]

Wahh Wahh. We ( African americans) can't vote....lets just let it go.
Wahh Wahh We (women) can't vote...lets just let it go its been this way forever.
Wahh Wahh We (women) don't have equal pay.....Its a waste of time saying anything about it.
Wahh Wahh We will always be slaves because its been that way forever......lets not upset the apple cart.
Wahh Wahh

No way. ALWAYS speak up in a respectful way for what you want. Ignore those who tell you its a waste of time.

Ridiculous. OP got the car he paid for, a care that many people love, including yourself. It is IN NO EFFING WAY COMPARABLE TO THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS YOU LISTED. Trying to make those comparisons just highlights how utterly ridiculous this is. He missed out, that sucks. But it's a completely minor issue.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Ridiculous. OP got the car he paid for, a care that many people love, including yourself. It is IN NO EFFING WAY COMPARABLE TO THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS YOU LISTED. Trying to make those comparisons just highlights how utterly ridiculous this is. He missed out, that sucks. But it's a completely minor issue.

You totally missed the point.

I'm not comparing the issues. Geesh. I'm saying speaking up changes things.

Keep em coming.

 

[mhan00]

I guess I can't expect much from a person who was asking why manufacturing the Model 3 was taking so long since the design was already finalized.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

You totally missed the point.

I'm not comparing the issues. Geesh. I'm saying speaking up changes things.

Keep em coming.

If you were in Tesla management's shoes, what would you do? Tesla is a low-volume manufacturer with exactly 2 models of automobile for sale. I don't think they can afford the level of sales disruption that would occur if they announced new hardware features way ahead of time. Upgrades to the Fremont factory, completion of the Gigafactory, expansion of the Supercharger network, and much more are very costly. If Tesla is to grow, it needs some financial stability.

I've seen this drama unfold before with the Autopilot 1.0 hardware. And again to a lesser extent with the nosecone facelift. I just don't see any way around it. Yes, it sucks for the people who just missed the cutoff for receiving Autopilot 2.0 hardware, but at least they will have functional autopilot for all the months the 2.0 people are waiting for the 2.0 software to be completed and trained.

 

[Rpm16]

Great post. Agree completely. I am a happy yet sad owner of both a model s and model x bought in the second and third quarter of this year. If I would have known I would have waited on both. Agree if tesla wants to keep fans loyal should find a way to retrofit at least the same year models.

 

[Garlan Garner]

If you were in Tesla management's shoes, what would you do? Tesla is a low-volume manufacturer with exactly 2 models of automobile for sale. I don't think they can afford the level of sales disruption that would occur if they announced new hardware features way ahead of time. Upgrades to the Fremont factory, completion of the Gigafactory, expansion of the Supercharger network, and much more are very costly. If Tesla is to grow, it needs some financial stability.

I've seen this drama unfold before with the Autopilot 1.0 hardware. And again to a lesser extent with the nosecone facelift. I just don't see any way around it. Yes, it sucks for the people who just missed the cutoff for receiving Autopilot 2.0 hardware, but at least they will have functional autopilot for all the months the 2.0 people are waiting for the 2.0 software to be completed and trained.

You asked a good question. What would I do?

One possibility is to equate a million dollars or 2 towards rebates for those who got duped in the last 30 days.
A cheaper possibility is a swap out for those who received their vehicles in the last 30 days.
Maybe even cheaper is an $8000 voucher for each delivery in the last 30 days.
An even cheaper thing would be a statement of sympathy to those who received their vehicles in the last 30 days.

Neither of these would tank Tesla. Any gesture would be great. That's just off the cuff.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I guess I can't expect much from a person who was asking why manufacturing the Model 3 was taking so long since the design was already finalized.

keep-em commin. I can take it.

 

[ttupper92618]

You totally missed the point.

I'm not comparing the issues. Geesh. I'm saying speaking up changes things.

Keep em coming.

Speaking up doesn't change some things. Speaking up doesn't make it possible to remanufacture and extremely complicated integrated system and turn it into a different one in a cost effective way. Speaking up doesn't make it possible for a business to sustain millions of dollars of losses in refunds to customers every time they make a technology change.

OP asked for:
1) his car to be upgraded, or
2) to be given 10K.

I'll ignore the return under 1K, because that's the same as option 2 for Tesla - a big loss.

The first option is in a practical way impossible; you just cannot remanufacture a complex system like that. The second options means potentially huge losses, and opens up all sorts of issues. How many days do they go back - do they go back 1day? 1 week? 1 month? How do they judge depreciation and determine the reasonable amount to refund? How much do they expect shareholders to eat in terms of added risk, especially for a company already losing money? And, what happens when Tesla is building 500,000 cars a year? Do they offer the same grace period they offered before? Why or why not?

Listen, it is not fair to any other Tesla owner to single out some owners for this sort of special treatment, and it also creates an unsustainable practice. Tesla cannot refund money to every owner who bought within a month, as an example, when they are making 500K cars a year, because what would cost the company $61 million today would cost the company $410 million then. If they start that now, they will have to change it later. And that would be unfair to every one of those future owners.

I get it - the OP is sad. And he has a right to be. But it is extremely myopic to suggest that helping him see that what they are asking is extremely implausible for the many reason already given... that's not an act of unkindness.

 

[mhan00]

Great post. Agree completely. I am a happy yet sad owner of both a model s and model x bought in the second and third quarter of this year. If I would have known I would have waited on both. Agree if tesla wants to keep fans loyal should find a way to retrofit at least the same year models.

I'll save you some grief wondering if they will: they won't. Elon said so yesterday. The process would be difficult and expensive, not to mention a huge drain on already stretched service centers. Obviously it sucks that you missed out, but frankly, in the end it isnt a huge issue. I hope you can take solace in the fact you have a great car, one that is exactly what you paid for, and that the new AP would have been an extra 5k plus another few months with even fewer features than your current car is able to provide.

 

[apacheguy]

You totally missed the point.

I'm not comparing the issues. Geesh. I'm saying speaking up changes things.

Keep em coming.

So what specific change are you advocating here? That Tesla switch to model years?

 

[ttupper92618]

You asked a good question. What would I do?

One possibility is to equate a million dollars or 2 towards rebates for those who got duped in the last 30 days.
A cheaper possibility is a swap out for those who received their vehicles in the last 30 days.
Maybe even cheaper is an $8000 voucher for each delivery in the last 30 days.
An even cheaper thing would be a statement of sympathy to those who received their vehicles in the last 30 days.

Neither of these would tank Tesla. Any gesture would be great. That's just off the cuff.

Look, you are not running these numbers. An 8K discount for everyone who purchased in the last 30 days is > $52 million dollars. That's certainly not 'even cheaper' than a "million or 2 towards rebates.'

When Tesla is building 500K cars a year, what you propose would be > $328 million cost. It's totally unsustainable.

This isn't about kindness, it's about reality.

 

[outie]

I know this is not happening but it would be nice to offer the whole system as a package (cameras, sensors, b pillars, side badges) and let any owner who wants them deal with it themselves or let the authorized collision centers deal with it. Is anything actually tied/integrated to more complicated parts of the car like motor and battery? Or is it pure additional sensors and cameras compared to AP1?

I am sure there people who are up for the challenge, be the owners themselves or auto shops.

 

[shokunin]

You asked a good question. What would I do?

One possibility is to equate a million dollars or 2 towards rebates for those who got duped in the last 30 days.
A cheaper possibility is a swap out for those who received their vehicles in the last 30 days.
Maybe even cheaper is an $8000 voucher for each delivery in the last 30 days.
An even cheaper thing would be a statement of sympathy to those who received their vehicles in the last 30 days.

Neither of these would tank Tesla. Any gesture would be great. That's just off the cuff.

So, what exactly did Tesla do wrong that would require such actions? Who exactly did Tesla "dupe"? Prior to the yesterday's announcement did anyone think they were duped? or only after?

This is the Tesla innovation cycle, 2-3 months. This is Agile product development. Yes, your car may be top dog for only a few months, upgrades are 4x faster than an annual iPhone upgrade. Everyone loves it unless you're on the wrong side of one of those 2-3 months.

April/May - Facelift
June - 60kw
August - P100
October - Tesla Vision

What to expect in the future that people will similarly complain about:

New Packs 2170 cells (this is coming, everyone should know this)
P110/P120 See above
Tesla Glass, augmented HUD
Upgraded MCU (desperately needed)
Quad Motors w/Torque Vectoring
Magnetorheological sport suspension
and eventually, AP3.0
plus so much more....

This is likely to continue until Elon decides to step down to focus solely on SpaceX.

 

[LastGas]

People were similarly angry when they just missed parking sensors or Autopilot or the facelift..

And I missed the Model S rear seat cupholders and USB charging port by 1 freaking day.

I don't mean to make fun of the original poster (I really did miss the cup holders and I only missed AP 2.0 hardware by a few weeks), but in consolation, I would point out that Tesla's tend to hold their value across updates. Also a Tesla with the new AP hardware has a downside--it costs $5,000 more to use any form of Autopilot, vs $3,000 on previous cars. You can't get the lower-cost AutoPilot Convenience Feature any more. A previous Tesla with AP 1.0 would cost $3,500 (think that's right) to get AutoPilot features, while a new one would cost $6,000 to get AutoPilot, albeit a better one.

 

[Xminus6]

Nobody should be more mad than me. I just missed AP1.0 when I bought my model s in 2014.

In june I asked to get a late October delivery for my X, (because my guess was Mid oct AP2.0) They said okay, then on the 24th they tell me my delivery is on its way Sept 29th. (They did say no guarantee on exact ship date), but 1 month in advance was a bit much. I say, I am going to be furious if AP2.0 comes out mid Oct considering the same thing happened in 2014, they state I have to take it or lose my $2500 deposit, so I take it.

I agree, I have only myself to blame, but imo there is an integrity factor that comes into play when I specifically say the above and get caught in their Q3 get everything out push.

They knew when it was coming out (no way the referral bonus ending that date is a coincidence) and hid it from me. That is my only issue and I've been a die hard tesla supporter from day 1.

I understand why they do it from a business perspective, that doesn't make it right considering the above imo. Oh well....I'm still rooting for them.

While I understand your frustration as another S owner who missed AP1 by a month, you also knew when the referral period was ending and that AP2 was imminent. I waited to order my car until last week so I would have time to cancel if I didn't get an upgraded AP suite without penalty. If you're on this forum you're more informed than 99.5% of Tesla owners.

 

[apacheguy]

Also a Tesla with the new AP hardware has a downside--it costs $5,000 more to use any form of Autopilot, vs $3,000 on previous cars. You can't get the lower-cost AutoPilot Convenience Feature any more. A previous Tesla with AP 1.0 would cost $3,500 (think that's right) to get AutoPilot features, while a new one would cost $6,000 to get AutoPilot, albeit a better one.

Must have missed that. That really sucks. I'm just one data point, but I definitely would have paid 3 K for the convenience features but I will definitely not be paying 8 K for full autonomy.