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LG battery issue US recall (not Tesla’s)

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So Jaguar are recalling iPace due to a thermal issue that could cause a fire. Sounds quite serious. Apparently it’s due to LG batteries. Will this affect Tesla (not mentioned in the article)?

There seem to be a lot of such recalls in the US but not in Europe…
Are their safety criteria more stringent than here, or are the battery packs completely different?
 
There seem to be a lot of such recalls in the US but not in Europe…
Are their safety criteria more stringent than here, or are the battery packs completely different?
Others: Large high capacity nickel/cobalt pouch cells (bag in a box). Subject to stress of different kinds: cold, heat, vibration, pressure, expand/contract phases especially during rapid charging. Rely on LG quality control but car companies/tier 2/3/4 supplier-developed (immature/suboptimal) Battery Management Systems may make things worse. Bag bursts and it might (will?) catch fire and so much energy that nearby cells likely (nearly certain) to go in a chain reaction. In my opinion, totally unsuitable for cars. Few/no updates to Battery Management Systems to help with longer-term safety.

I believe that the vast majority of Nickel Pouch-based cars will be recalled or scrapped in the future.

Tesla
:
LFP - much safer through chemistry
+
higher-energy CYLINDRICAL METAL nickel cells that are well engineered. Each having low energy (smaller, more of them) and a safety vent. More in service, more time to find issues & faster rate of improvement. Individual cells can fail & no biggie nowadays. Early Roadster / Model S were testing ground and so much was learned and improved. So ten+ years of safety improvements. Battery Management System constantly improved for safety levels through Over The Air updates.
 
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I understand that there are differences between car manufacturers but I am not aware of iPaces being recalled in Europe and, presumably, they have the same battery packs? Or are they from different battery manufacturers?
The number of faults found with US iPaces is low. USA had Bolt issues over and over so they're probably more cautious.

It will probably come to UK/Europe after issues found in Europe.
 
The number of faults found with US iPaces is low. USA had Bolt issues over and over so they're probably more cautious.

It will probably come to UK/Europe after issues found in Europe.
Not so sure it's that low. Look at 2022 JAGUAR I-PACE SUV AWD | NHTSA, specifically the associated docs.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V369-7824.PDF mentions:
"Jaguar Land Rover is conducting a voluntary safety recall campaign involving all
2019-2024MY Jaguar I-PACE vehicles built at the Graz Vehicle Assembly Plant from
June 5, 2018 - TBD. 6367 vehicles in the United States and Federalized Territories.
The basis for the recall population is from the start of production through to the
introduction of the revised software in vehicle production.

Production Dates : JUN 05, 2018 - MAY 25, 2023"

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RMISC-23V369-0591.pdf says "JLR has received 8 reports of vehicle fires in the US, "

As as former Bolt owner who had their car bought back, when I was trying to refute some gross misinformation, as I said at 2 Month Tesla Owner - Fed up and Done, we knew of about 20 Bolt fires worldwide that were believed to be/known to be due to a battery pack defect out of ~140K Bolts worldwide.

The i-Pace population is MUCH smaller and there were already 8 fires out of about 6.3K in the US. I don't unfortunately have i-Pace battery/believed to be due to battery pack fires for outside the US.
 
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Not so sure it's that low. Look at 2022 JAGUAR I-PACE SUV AWD | NHTSA, specifically the associated docs.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V369-7824.PDF mentions:
"Jaguar Land Rover is conducting a voluntary safety recall campaign involving all
2019-2024MY Jaguar I-PACE vehicles built at the Graz Vehicle Assembly Plant from
June 5, 2018 - TBD. 6367 vehicles in the United States and Federalized Territories.
The basis for the recall population is from the start of production through to the
introduction of the revised software in vehicle production.

Production Dates : JUN 05, 2018 - MAY 25, 2023"

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RMISC-23V369-0591.pdf says "JLR has received 8 reports of vehicle fires in the US, "

As as former Bolt owner who had their car bought back, when I was trying to refute some gross misinformation, as I said at 2 Month Tesla Owner - Fed up and Done, we knew of about 20 Bolt fires worldwide that were believed to be/known to be due to a battery pack defect out of ~140K Bolts worldwide.

The i-Pace population is MUCH smaller and there were already 8 fires out of about 6.3K in the US. I don't unfortunately have i-Pace battery/believed to be due to battery pack fires for outside the US.
So, we'll probably see other action in EU & elsewhere eventually. I just wouldn't consider a pouch cell car. Few people are bothered though. If you don't understand something complex, you assume it's easy.
 
So, we'll probably see other action in EU & elsewhere eventually. I just wouldn't consider a pouch cell car. Few people are bothered though. If you don't understand something complex, you assume it's easy.
Doesn't the Nissan Leaf use pouch cells? I only mention it because they've been in use longer than most and despite being old tech don't have a reputation for bursting into flames AKAIK.
 
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Doesn't the Nissan Leaf use pouch cells? I only mention it because they've been in use longer than most and despite being old tech don't have a reputation for bursting into flames AKAIK.
Leaf & Zoe might be different in some way I don't know about. Some sites say Zoe is pouch, others prismatic. Zoe has better cooling, so I would imagine Leafs used in hot places would be more liable to fires unless some mitigation. Leafs certainly have had problems with capacity decreasing in hot environments.

Perhaps part of the pouch danger comes from charging speed. Old Zoe is 43 kW AC, Leaf according to first website is 50kW DC on Chademo.

Perhaps a conservative chemistry or extra strong pouches were used. Perhaps the pouch's case is gas-tight & strong. Perhaps each cell (8?) isn't that powerful.

Plug-in electric vehicle fire incidents - Wikipedia either lots of Leafs in Ukraine (quite possibly, lots of EVs there) and/or unlucky with charging.

Those companies dealing with fixing Leafs, upgrading packs or reusing for stationary storage would be knowledgeable.

My limited knowledge, probably pouch?
192 cells


1685814199195.png



Leaf chemistry info on that link. Manganese + bit of nickel (Gen 1) or Gen 1 + cobalt. maybe that's much safer, maybe combined with structure, slow charging speed etc. Pouch cells that have cause problems in Bolt, ID, i-Pace etc would probably be higher energy, cars probably charge faster (Bolt?)

LiMn2O4 + LiNiO2 (Modification with nickel addition to the above material, spinel structure)​

Used on first generation Leaf.
The battery adopted on the Leaf is a product made by AESC, a joint venture company between Nissan and NEC. As a result, the technology from NEC Tokin was used to develop the AESC battery. In the Lithium manganese oxide battery described above, due to the efficient electrolysis of the electrolyte, large capacity and long life was an issue. However, with a sufficient dose of nickel additive, it was found that the decrease in battery capacity could be controlled, which led to the full scale adoption of it as the cathode material for mass production BEVs.



LiNixMnyCozO2 (Addition of cobalt = known as ternary material, layered structure)​

New usage on the second generation Leaf
In the current Leaf, further increases in battery capacity were required, so a laminate structure that can achieve a high density of Lithium Ion storage has been used. The material is made of ternary material, overcoming the concerns of a laminate structure design by optimization of the cell design to achieve significant increases in energy density, leading to its adoption on the Leaf from 2017 onwards.
 
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At 2019 JAGUAR I-PACE 5 HB AWD | NHTSA, I can see
"NHTSA Campaign Number: 24V183000
Manufacturer Jaguar Land Rover North America, LLC
Components ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Potential Number of Units Affected 258
Summary
Jaguar Land Rover North America, LLC. (Jaguar) is recalling certain 2019 I-Pace vehicles. The high-voltage battery may overheat.

Remedy
The remedy is currently under development. Owners are advised to park and charge their vehicles outside and away from structures, and to only charge their vehicles to a maximum 75% state of charge until the recall repair is complete. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed April 26, 2024. Owners may contact Jaguar's customer service at 1-800-452-4827. Jaguar's number for this recall is H484. These vehicles were previously recalled under 23V-369 and will need to have the new remedy completed."
 
Remedy
The remedy is currently under development. Owners are advised to park and charge their vehicles outside and away from structures, and to only charge their vehicles to a maximum 75% state of charge until the recall repair is complete. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed April 26, 2024. Owners may contact Jaguar's customer service at 1-800-452-4827. Jaguar's number for this recall is H484. These vehicles were previously recalled under 23V-369 and will need to have the new remedy completed."
Is it my poor comprehension skills or does this say the vehicles recalled need to have a new remedy completed which is currently under development? If so, it seems the owners of these vehicles are in a state of limbo...