ZenRockGarden
Active Member
For another bit of perspective: Every single Chevy Bolt ever sold has been recalled and must not be driven because Chevy doesn't even have a solution to the battery fire problem yet.
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2 Month Tesla Owner - Fed up and Done
- Thread starter NotABurner
- Start date
No real competition and a 9 month order backlog.
No other manufacturer can deliver 1.8M cars in 2022 like Tesla will. Closest might deliver 500K. Maybe.
They're all gonna have trouble getting batteries. Chips will be a factor, but pale by comparison.
So while I'm sure Tesla is aware they need to improve, their priority is deliveries / factories / resource acquisition........then customer service.
They’re really not. Just because this individual hasn’t had issues with a Toyota, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. We’ve taken back in Tacoma’s for blown transmissions in 2K miles (manufacturing defect), Corolla’s display doesn’t function, Camry’s that won’t balance, a RAV4 hybrid that’s battery went poof. All brand new cars. Sometimes you get unlucky. Anything produces in this kinda volume will have a failure rate. It probably is lower at the Japanese companies, but somewhere there is angry Honda owner fuming about there brand new CRV and it’s issues….guarantee it.
The bolded part is completely untrue. Source of your totally untrue claims?
I had a '19 Bolt for 3 years (bought new at end of Jan 2019) and got it bought back (returned on 1/28/22 in exchange for a very large check). There are plenty of Bolts all still being driven including the 3 around my house within 2 houses away from me. Besides the ones on my street, I see Bolts pretty much daily when I'm out driving, including today.
You may as well tell News Coulomb at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJqgqWqKmdkIuBZa7JK5KSw/videos who is still doing road trips on his '17 Bolt w/original battery w/nearly 150K miles on it. A month ago, he uploaded videos like
I can point you to thousands of people still driving their Bolts on chevybolt.org + multiple Bolt FB groups.
My US-made pack '19 Bolt wasn't part of the original Korean battery only recall (affecting all '17 and '18 + subset of '19) in Nov 2020 (which affected about 50K Bolts in the US: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RCLRPT-20V701-2513.PDF). Then, all Bolts got recalled in Aug 2021 (General Motors to Recall Additional Bolt EVs). I drove my "must not be driven"
Bolt over about 5000 miles between when it got recalled and when I turned it in, this included a road trip (lots of great free charging as a tourist going from the Bay Area to the LA area - My Nissan Leaf Forum) that was to So Cal (370 miles one way). I drove 1020 miles in the span of ~6 days. I had the below 80% limiter patch applied before the road trip.GM had given a bunch of advice about parking the car outside, not charging indoors overnight unattended, don't go below "70 miles", don't charge above 90%, etc. They finally came out with a software update (80% temporary limiter patch) on Nov 19, 2021 for '19 Bolts then expanded it to all Bolts about a month later. See Chevy Bolt EV & EUV Recall | Chevrolet under Dec 21, 2021 software update. That 80% temp limiter GM feels is makes the car safe enough to park inside and charge overnight unattended until the pack is replaced.
PLENTY of folks have gotten their pack replaced, which is now the final remedy, unlike a previous "final remedy" in April/May 2021 (dealer diagnostics + additional diagnostics software) that didn't really work. See Battery replacement recall remedy tracking summary and Recall Quarterly Report 2021-3.
New version (revision 02) of battery replacement... has the dealer directions.
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Who are you talking about? VW Group and Toyota are usually amongst the two leading automakers in terms of global sales.
See Toyota group tops global auto sales in 2021 for 2nd straight yr. Toyota did 10.5 million vehicles in 2021. VW Group did 8.88 million. And from that article "The total sales of Honda Motor Co. grew 0.7 percent to 4.49 million vehicles, while Nissan Motor Co. inched up 0.9 percent to 4.07 million units."
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Also, to add some more info to the Bolt recall, per the below, GM estimates (as they have been doing all along) that they believe 1% of the vehicles have the defect:
It's unclear if they're only allowed to specify only whole numbers.
Regardless, all '17 to '19 Bolts are getting replacement battery packs. For '20 to '22, there are statements from GM (https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/c...-chevy-bolts-and-euv.40076/page-7#post-637633). It's unclear if they've abandoned coming up with that process for '20 to '22 Bolts. For now, the procedure for '20 to '22 Bolts calls for changing the whole pack and the part # is the same as for '17 to '19 Bolts.
It's unclear if they're only allowed to specify only whole numbers.
Regardless, all '17 to '19 Bolts are getting replacement battery packs. For '20 to '22, there are statements from GM (https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/c...-chevy-bolts-and-euv.40076/page-7#post-637633). It's unclear if they've abandoned coming up with that process for '20 to '22 Bolts. For now, the procedure for '20 to '22 Bolts calls for changing the whole pack and the part # is the same as for '17 to '19 Bolts.
who are you talking about? wasn't the subject EV's ?
Toyota has yet to make an EV, they only make PH vehicles, and VW delivered approx 450K EV+PH cars across all their brands last year.
Toyota with Kia will get some EV's out the door this year, sort of.... VW will grow somewhat but be severely battery limited.
Tesla will deliver 1.8M EV cars this year.
I take pictures and wash my car before dropping off. If it’s anything to do with wheels I take them off and drop them off. I let them handle it as little as possible. Less stress.
Damage can happen any where. I think it’s the same human race that handles your car at any dealership.
It’s just like Dr’s. You need to check up on things. Like research the drug they just prescribed. Maybe they didn’t check interaction with other drugs. And for a car, did you double check they ordered the right part?
Wait 2 months after it’s repaired. Then decide.
Damage can happen any where. I think it’s the same human race that handles your car at any dealership.
It’s just like Dr’s. You need to check up on things. Like research the drug they just prescribed. Maybe they didn’t check interaction with other drugs. And for a car, did you double check they ordered the right part?
Wait 2 months after it’s repaired. Then decide.
No. See what you wrote. Seems ilke you moved the goalposts. A large supply of li-ion batteries isn't needed to produce the overwhelming majority of cars/automobiles.
The bolded statement is untrue. They had the gen 1 and 2 Rav4 EV (yes, I know they were CA compliance cars and the latter was even Tesla-powered). They have Toyota Premieres Toyota-brand Battery Electric Vehicles Ahead of 2020 China Launch | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website. I've physically seen Toyota COMS - Wikipedia in Japan at Tokyo Motor Show and in the wild there. I posted about these before at Toyota BEVs - My Nissan Leaf Forum.
Lexus UX 300e | Lexus Europe is available in several markets.
Lexus UX300e electric car revealed for China, Europe, Japan—but not US
Lexus is introducing its first electric car, a fully electric version of the Lexus UX, to many other parts of the world.
First Lexus electric car: Battery covered by 10-year, 600,000+ mile warranty
The battery in the Lexus UX 300e electric car is air-cooled, but Lexus is backing it up with one of the best warranties yet.
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You can move the goalpost yourself.No. See what you wrote. You've moved the goalposts.
The bolded statement is untrue. They had the gen 1 and 2 Rav4 EV (yes, I know they were CA compliance cars and the latter was even Tesla-powered). They have Toyota Premieres Toyota-brand Battery Electric Vehicles Ahead of 2020 China Launch | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website. I've physically seen Toyota COMS - Wikipedia in Japan at Tokyo Motor Show and in the wild there. I posted about these before at Toyota BEVs - My Nissan Leaf Forum.
Lexus UX 300e | Lexus Europe is available in several markets.
Lexus UX300e electric car revealed for China, Europe, Japan—but not US
Lexus is introducing its first electric car, a fully electric version of the Lexus UX, to many other parts of the world.www.greencarreports.com
First Lexus electric car: Battery covered by 10-year, 600,000+ mile warranty
The battery in the Lexus UX 300e electric car is air-cooled, but Lexus is backing it up with one of the best warranties yet.
I replied that my posts were entirely based on EV numbers, which was in fact the subject of the thread, which you deny.
Trying to claim these vehicles you point to as amounting to a hill of beans in the world marketplace? Toyota COMS ? Please.
The reality is the automotive manufacturers are behind the curve and for a variety of reasons will be hard pressed to catch up any time soon. That's the gist and the point.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
The bolded part is completely untrue. Source of your totally untrue claims?
I had a '19 Bolt for 3 years (bought new at end of Jan 2019) and got it bought back (returned on 1/28/22 in exchange for a very large check). There are plenty of Bolts all still being driven including the 3 around my house within 2 houses away from me. Besides the ones on my street, I see Bolts pretty much daily when I'm out driving, including today.
You may as well tell News Coulomb at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJqgqWqKmdkIuBZa7JK5KSw/videos who is still doing road trips on his '17 Bolt w/original battery w/nearly 150K miles on it. A month ago, he uploaded videos likeabout his 1,800 mile road trip. Since he has a '17, he was part of the original Nov 2020 battery fire recall. GM eventually decided to replace all '17 to '19 Bolt packs probably around Aug 2021.
I can point you to thousands of people still driving their Bolts on chevybolt.org + multiple Bolt FB groups.
My US-made pack '19 Bolt wasn't part of the original Korean battery only recall (affecting all '17 and '18 + subset of '19) in Nov 2020 (which affected about 50K Bolts in the US: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RCLRPT-20V701-2513.PDF). Then, all Bolts got recalled in Aug 2021 (General Motors to Recall Additional Bolt EVs). I drove my "must not be driven"
GM had given a bunch of advice about parking the car outside, not charging indoors overnight unattended, don't go below "70 miles", don't charge above 90%, etc. They finally came out with a software update (80% temporary limiter patch) on Nov 19, 2021 for '19 Bolts then expanded it to all Bolts about a month later. See Chevy Bolt EV & EUV Recall | Chevrolet under Dec 21, 2021 software update. That 80% temp limiter GM feels is makes the car safe enough to park inside and charge overnight unattended until the pack is replaced.
PLENTY of folks have gotten their pack replaced, which is now the final remedy, unlike a previous "final remedy" in April/May 2021 (dealer diagnostics + additional diagnostics software) that didn't really work. See Battery replacement recall remedy tracking summary and Recall Quarterly Report 2021-3.
New version (revision 02) of battery replacement... has the dealer directions.
"The total recall now numbers 141,000 electric vehicles over six model years, every Bolt the company has built since sales began in December 2016. No schedules have been given for any cell replacements."
Chevy Bolt Battery Recall: How Could This Have Happened?
A full explanation of the problem causing every single Bolt EV to be under recall for a potential fire-causing defect.
www.caranddriver.com
It's a serious problem. Not sure why you want to pretend otherwise
The above bolded portion is VERY outdated information.
Chevrolet Bolt EV Battery Production Resumes is dated Sept 20, 2021.
When Chevybolt.org goes back up, see See Battery replacement recall remedy tracking summary and Recall Quarterly Report 2021-3. The recall ending in 880 is for '17 to '19 Bolts. Ending in 940 is for '20 to '22. These are the numbers of Bolts in the US which have had their packs replaced due to the battery recall.
You can look under associated docs for each of Fire recalls summary and timeline - Updated 12/21/21 for more docs.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCSB-21V560-5618.pdf is the current repair procedure for '17 to '19 Bolts. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCSB-21V650-4040.pdf is for '20 to '22.
Again, BOTH parts of the portion I bolded are totally untrue. The must not be driven portion has never been true for any existing drivers and customers.
I didn't say it wasn't serious, but keep in mind about 20 out of ~140K Bolt are known to have caught fire from battery defects --> ~0.014%
GM's $2 billion Chevy Bolt fire recall casts shadow over electric vehicle market
says "Still, the coverage of EV fires may be overblown, said Sam
Abuelsamid, lead auto analyst for Guidehouse Insights. Seven Chevy
Bolts have caught fire, or about 0.006 percent of those on the road.
By comparison, the National Fire Protection Association said 212,000
gas and diesel vehicles caught fire in 2018, or about 0.07 percent of
those on U.S. roads."
(His # of Bolts that caught fire is too low.)
Page 3 of https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/...nd-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf
talks about 212,500 vehicle fires in the US in 2018 and 290,000,000
registered vehicles in the US. That's where the 0.07% comes from.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
OK, so you feel it's no big deal. I have specifically referenced detailed info that every single Bolt has been recalled, and no solution is in place, exactly as I explained. Yes, people may still be driving bolts around - hard to stop them. But the vehicle is a dead end - no more will be made, and they're all recalled. LG is being asked to give GM billions to compensate for screwing the entire platform because you can't trust the batteries... which is why you want to go with a carmaker who's the leader in making exactly that thing.
This seems incredibly clear - by all means explain where the error is:
"The total recall now numbers 141,000 electric vehicles over six model years, every Bolt the company has built since sales began in December 2016. No schedules have been given for any cell replacements."
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This is what you wrote.
Yet, you didn't specify EVs. You simply said cars.
So, it's ok to spread misinformation? You said "Toyota has yet to make an EV", yet they produced EVs years before Tesla was even founded (Toyota RAV4 EV - Wikipedia). And, they've produced several models since then. I didn't say the numbers for large though.
The bolded part is TOTALLY UNTRUE. Replacement batteries that GM and LG Chem claim to not have the defects that led to the fires have been in production since Sept 2021. See my earlier reference. See bottom of Chevy Bolt EV & EUV Recall | Chevrolet.
Why would they stop driving Bolts?
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
The bolded part was correct from ~Aug 2021 until Sept 19, 2021.
From Chevrolet Bolt EV Battery Production Resumes dated Sept 20, 2021
Did you bother looking at the quarterly reports?
N212343880: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLQRT-21V560-9386.PDF
N212345940: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLQRT-21V650-9333.PDF
Battery replacement recall remedy tracking summary is an informal tracking table of folk who have and haven't gotten their packs changed which is the remedy for the defect.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
"
- Set your vehicle to a 90 percent state of charge limitation using Hilltop Reserve mode (for 2017-2018 model years) or Target Charge Level (for 2019-2022 model years) mode. Instructions on how to do this are available in the videos below. If you unable to successfully make these changes, or do not feel comfortable making these changes, GM is asking you to visit your dealer to have these adjustments completed.
- Charge your vehicle more frequently and avoid depleting their battery below approximately 70 miles (113 kilometers) of remaining range, where possible.
- Park your vehicle outside immediately after charging and do not leave your vehicle charging indoors overnight."
The C&D piece was correct about no schedule for replacements until it wasn't, a few days afterward.
These are the quarterly reports that GM has had to upload to NHTSA, by law, to report on progress of remedies.
N212343880: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLQRT-21V560-9386.PDF
N212345940: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLQRT-21V650-9333.PDF
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Listen - if you want to believe that most Bolts are FINE and they will continue being made, and despite Chevy's own dire instructions to park them outside and be super careful after charging because they might catch fire but it's all completely ok.... go there.
I say the Chevy Bolt is a dead end, specifically because Chevy did not make the batteries, they were not entirely safe, and it;'s better to work with a car made by a company who's core competency is the batter pack in it.
I say the Chevy Bolt is a dead end, specifically because Chevy did not make the batteries, they were not entirely safe, and it;'s better to work with a car made by a company who's core competency is the batter pack in it.
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