Lidar lost Tesla the robotaxi?

[t3sl4drvr]

Tesla chose different path towards L5 by Elon insisting on not using Lidar. This was a risky bet that allowed to push large number of cars on market that might eventually become capable of working as robotaxis. On the other hand, several competitors using lidars have already been able to launch their robotaxis.

Was it a good bet to insist on vision only?

 

[2101Guy]

Was it s good bet to insist on vision only?

Yes. It sounded better (to fools who believe it) than saying "we are raising the prices of cars while removing critical technology/radar units".

 

[t3sl4drvr]

Not sure if Elon has the option for changing his mind and adding Lidar due to promises of installing all needed HW to previously purchased FSD cars.

 

[JulienW]

Lidar doesn't always help for L5 and can be a hindrance. It is really only good for L4. Of course Robotaxis can be L4.

 

[glide]

Vision only is a complete failure. It was a cost cutting measure. Just like not including LiDAR.

Tesla is not making it to L5 with any vehicles they currently have on the road.

 

[glide]

Not sure if Elon has the option for changing his mind and adding Lidar due to promises of installing all needed HW to previously purchased FSD cars.

Elon has said all cars will be capable of FSD. That is a Tesla product and definition.

He does not say all vehicles are capable of L5 autonomous driving which is an industry standard.

 

[t3sl4drvr]

Elon has said all cars will be capable of FSD. That is a Tesla product and definition.

Is there a definition? What would that be?

 

[hw13]

Tesla chose different path towards L5 by Elon insisting on not using Lidar. This was a risky bet that allowed to push large number of cars on market that might eventually become capable of working as robotaxis. On the other hand, several competitors using lidars have already been able to launch their robotaxis.

Was it a good bet to insist on vision only?

There are no L5 robotaxis because they are all geo restricted.

 

[t3sl4drvr]

There are no L5 robotaxis because they are all geo restricted.

Also, there are no normal taxis that would not be geo restricted. Thus robotaxis will never be L5 if think about geo restrictions in a strict way.

So what?

 

[2101Guy]

Is there a definition? What would that be?

Elons definition: "NYC to LA with no human in the car and no human input"

 

[hw13]

Also, there are no normal taxis that would not be geo restricted. Thus robotaxis will never be L5 if think about geo restrictions in a strict way.

So what?

So what's the point of this thread???

 

[Supcom]

So what's the point of this thread???

Whine about no lidar.

 

[DrChaos]

What about other options like what I believe:

* increased investment in better vision hardware and better compute will give more benefits than similar investment in lidar
* if a new sensor is desired, imaging high resolution radar is better than lidar

 

[hw13]

* increased investment in better vision hardware and better compute will give more benefits than similar investment in lidar
* if a new sensor is desired, imaging high resolution radar is better than lidar

Vision has higher resolution than lidar. That's the problem with lidar and why Elon ditched it, the resolution is too low to be of any use. It's only good for telling you if "a large object" is at a certain distance from you.

 

[glide]

Is there a definition? What would that be?

FSD = Full Self Driving = A software product that Tesla-only offers.

They can define that however they like. Current definition is advertised on the order page. That definition can change at any time as we have seen.

Then there are the Elon sycophants that think “Full Self Driving” means the car will drive itself. If that were Tesla’s actual definition, they would be getting sued left and right. They clearly define what FSD “is” at all times. And in rare cases, what it’s “going to be” i.e. Autostreer on city streets coming soon.

Nowhere do they ever mention a vehicle that drives itself.

 

[Inside]

 

[AndrewZ]

My hot take on this is that consumer vehicles with FSD won't move beyond Level 2.

Could also mention that we had an internal leak earlier this year suggesting that Tesla stopped installing redundant steering control modules from Made-in-China vehicles -- the lack of the modules is fine for Level 2, but redundancy is required for Level 3+. We don't know if those components are still being skipped, whether they were brought back in, how many vehicles were produced this way, or whether anything else was cut.

Tesla is now planning to build a dedicated Robotaxi vehicle slated for volume production in 2024, those were the latest statements in the Q1 earnings call. This vehicle is supposed to have no steering wheel or pedals, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it possessing a more robust sensor suite. Learnings from the Level 2 ADAS fleet will be used as the foundation for Level 3+ functionality in this new vehicle.



Will wait to be proven wrong but this is how I see it unfolding right now

 

[EVNow]

Better question : will Tesla achieve robotaxi level first or will Waymo become profitable first.

 

[t3sl4drvr]

Vision has higher resolution than lidar. That's the problem with lidar and why Elon ditched it, the resolution is too low to be of any use. It's only good for telling you if "a large object" is at a certain distance from you.

Funny that people still believe this narrative when there are actual robotaxis driving on actual streets with actual passengers with no-one on the driver seat. And none of those actual robotaxis use a lidar or are made by Tesla.

 

[t3sl4drvr]

So what's the point of this thread???

Discuss if one of the boldest business decisions in the recent history of cars was a brilliant one or not. I have huge admiration for Elon making that decision when no-one else had the guts to do so. It may turn out that the decision was wrong one. It is interesting to discuss if, why, and what are the consequences.