Lightweight wheel owners - your feedback on unsprung reduction vs stock

[Zcd1]

The 20" forged wheels I run in warmer months are about 5-6 lbs lighter than the OEMs - I saw a 1 tenth second improvement in 1/4 mile ET, and notice slightly better overall suspension performance.

 

[webbah]

I really wish Tesla offered the 19 inch Gemini Aero wheels for the P3D like in the US and China for us here in Europe. I’d love to use those for road trips. My Brixton RF7’s in 20 inch with Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4’s handle fantastic though!

 

[Magnets!]

So for those that went from stock 20s to forged 18s, how is the cornering with the bigger sidewall? One thing I love about my car is the sharp steering response and some of that probably comes down to the low profile sidewalls of the 20s.

 

[davidviolin]

So for those that went from stock 20s to forged 18s, how is the cornering with the bigger sidewall? One thing I love about my car is the sharp steering response and some of that probably comes down to the low profile sidewalls of the 20s.

I have not noticed much difference in cornering. If anything I feel there is a quicker response to steering input.

 

[jkoya]

So for those that went from stock 20s to forged 18s, how is the cornering with the bigger sidewall? One thing I love about my car is the sharp steering response and some of that probably comes down to the low profile sidewalls of the 20s.

I am currently running with 18" Titan7 T-S5 forged wheels with Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires. Acceleration does feel quicker. As for the cornering, it feels about the same to me on public streets. I have not tracked the car with them. I've also been driving a bit slower due to the rain, fog and leaf covered roads. I'll know more later in the year...

 

[Dolemite]

Go for 18inch with 18lb wheels. Ankle weight is the worst thing for the car. The only time you can over look it is for bigger brakes for tracking. If you don't do that, then its the looks which are subjective to how much cooler it looks. In the end everyone complains about range and 0-60 acceleration, which you deal with 99% of the time.
If i could fit a 17lb wheel that is 17inch I would do it. It would give you probably 15+ miles compared to the 18 aeros. At that point it can't be treated as a sports car in anyway.

P3d stock 20 is rated at 280mi not 310mi!

Mostly, but the impact of this is somewhat exaggerated IMO. Plus the car will feel sharper with a shorter sidewall.

I think there's a balance. Personally I think 19" on the Model 3 are the ideal balance between everything, and then you keep your 18s for long-distance/winter driving.

 

[davidviolin]

Plus the car will feel sharper with a shorter sidewall.

Yes, but there is more to it than that... Every tire manufacturer has different sidewall stiffness. So if you are looking for nothing but cornering performance, I would pick a tire with stiff sidewall, combined with a lightweight forged 18" wheel for quicker acceleration out of the corner.

 

[FlyNavy01]

I agree that 19" is the best compromise for range/weight/looks/sidewall support. My track setup is 19x9.5" square, (19.4lb wheel + 24lb tire = 9.5lbs saved per corner still). This is with Pirelli Trofeo R tires, so very aggressive sidewall stiffness and ultra low treadwear rubber.

If your main priority is range, get 18" aeros or EV01's for sure, but then why buy a P3D? If your main priority is performance, go with 19", specifically 19x9.5" for the best grip/handling. If your main priority is looks, go with 20" as this is really the only reason to run 20's.

18" on the Model 3 looks goofy and not sporty, plus pretty spongey sidewall support on most tires; it's a good choice for the lower end trims but not if you're interested in performance driving. 20" can look good but makes the brakes look tiny and is not worth it for daily driving for reasons explained above.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I did this on my prior BMW RWD 340.

Before: 26 lb wheels 18x8.0 225/45/18 front and 18x8.5 rear 255/40/18. Tires were Michelin Pilot Super Sport
After: 18x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear at 19 lb each. The exact same tires were remounted on the lighter wheels.

• The car felt like it had more grip with quicker side to side direction changes.
• The car felt more responsive to throttle inputs.
• The suspension felt faster and better able to keep the wheels in contact with the road especially on a bumps windy road.
• Overall, it felt like a sportier, more responsive car and worth the time and expense in my opinion.

An article that performed a comparison like this from a few years ago is attached for those interested in an independent test.

Its simple physics, more weight, more energy needed to move it... simple test, grab some nice lightweight running shoes and go run two miles - record the time. Grab some heavy boots and run two miles - record the time.

We all know the theory behind fitting lighter wheels, but until you’ve actually seen the results for yourself it is easy to be sceptical of ‘fit these and you will improve your car’ claims. (Note: we all know that Tesla has electronically restricted the performance of the Model 3, so don't expect increased 0-60, just lower cost per mile in watts and better braking/steering/handling.)

From these tests it is clear that reducing the unsprung weight and rotational mass from your car to make it faster is far from just a theory. It’s a fact. Despite having slight discrepancies in the results of the standing start acceleration tests, which can reasonably be attributed to poor weather conditions, the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 lightweight alloys outperformed the standard wheels in all other aspects.

The biggest differences could clearly be seen in the handling test where the car was much faster, and according to Dan felt much nicer to drive, more nimble, and gave him the confidence to carry more speed through the corners.

Perhaps the most surprising results were the braking test times. We were anticipating that the lighter wheels would offer slight performance advantages but were expecting the results to be marginal. When the braking time from 100mph was reduced by half a second we were all amazed.

Overall it is clear to see the benefits offered by lightweight motorsport wheels, and with rims like the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 available at such reasonable prices it doesn’t make sense to fit anything other than lightweight wheels to your fast Ford.

People won't pay $10K for Carbon Fiber Wheels, if the weight didn't matter and your butt dyno is equal to an opinion and everyone has one, but physics are physics. 13 car lengths in one lap is a fantastic performance gain.
Example of Carbon Fiber wheels vs Forged Wheels - CF won - here's how:

1. Start line: Launch hard with reduced inertia: get more power to the ground.
2. Tight high-g corner, higher cornering speeds due to increased grip. +0.14s
3. Bumps on track. Carbon wheels glide right over the bumps. Bumps upset the car with the aluminum wheel forcing the driver to breath on the throttle costing time and creating more work for the driver. +0.08s
4. Very tough section, off-camber, mid-corner bump and a wide line will hit curbing. Improved grip over curbing, improved steering precision and better chassis control allows the driver to keep the throttle wide open. +0.42s
5. Large bump and g-out in middle of the track typically upsets the chassis with aluminum wheels. Improved suspension performance due to lightweight CR-9 wheels allows the suspension to soak up the bumps without upsetting the chassis. +0.14s
6. Late braking, early on the throttle and increased grip mid corner. +0.45s:
7. Finish line: total split = 1.23sec, almost 13 vehicle lengths on the straight!

Source: Technology | Carbon Revolution | One-Piece Carbon Fiber Wheels

A set of original-equipment forged wheels (19 x 10.5 inches up front and 19 x 11 inches in the rear) for the Ford Mustang GT350 weighs in about 33 pounds per wheel.(similar to the stock 20 inches on a Model 3) The carbon fiber GT350 wheels (19 x 10.5 inches front, 19 x 11.5 inches rear) are just 18 pounds each by comparison. (similar weight savings found on several brands in Forged 18 inch for Model 3)
Source: The Most Revolutionary Thing About The Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 May Be The Carbon Fiber Wheels

According to the principles of math, that’s a savings of 15 pounds per wheel—vital pounds shaved off easily where it counts. Even more impressive, the GT500 wheels (which are the latest generation design) weigh almost the same as the GT350R wheels, but are a full inch bigger in diameter.

 

[clockwrkz]

I had settled on a set of summer wheels until I read this thread and realized they are 31 lbs per wheel. So now looking at something lighter but still 19”. Is there a big difference between 19x8.5 and 19x9.5 (looking at the Titan 7s). I assume the handling would be slightly but no fit issues? Are there any advantages to 8.5 width other than maybe a bit more efficiency?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I had settled on a set of summer wheels until I read this thread and realized they are 31 lbs per wheel. So now looking at something lighter but still 19”. Is there a big difference between 19x8.5 and 19x9.5 (looking at the Titan 7s). I assume the handling would be slightly but no fit issues? Are there any advantages to 8.5 width other than maybe a bit more efficiency?

If you ever plan to track your car, use stock sizes or you will NOT be qualified to track in certain classes, otherwise buy wherever fits your lifestyle (efficiency vs handling vs costs vs looks). I don't think you can go wrong with either size 8.5 gives you some more rubber to protect your wheels, 9.5 would require new tires and could start the push the limits of steering lock turn to turn with larger rubber on them. I like forged due to the strength to weight ratio, which is why they are so light, you can't do that with flow formed wheels, they need more mass to be as strong as fully forged wheels. All Titan7's are direct fitment to all Model 3's with the cutout on the hub.

 

[Dolemite]

I think we all like forged wheels.

 

[clockwrkz]

If you ever plan to track your car, use stock sizes or you will NOT be qualified to track in certain classes, otherwise buy wherever fits your lifestyle (efficiency vs handling vs costs vs looks). I don't think you can go wrong with either size 8.5 gives you some more rubber to protect your wheels, 9.5 would require new tires and could start the push the limits of steering lock turn to turn with larger rubber on them. I like forged due to the strength to weight ratio, which is why they are so light, you can't do that with flow formed wheels, they need more mass to be as strong as fully forged wheels. All Titan7's are direct fitment to all Model 3's with the cutout on the hub.

Definitely going forged now after reading this thread. Last thing I want to do is slow my car down dramatically and pay for the pleasure of doing so.
I don’t plan on going to the track with it and my stock tires are 18” so I won’t be able to reuse them. I really like how the 19s look with a minimal increase in weight. Only question I really had left was the width and if there was an advantage. Need to price out tires for both widths and see if there is a large cost difference still too.

 

[davidviolin]

I had settled on a set of summer wheels until I read this thread and realized they are 31 lbs per wheel. So now looking at something lighter but still 19”. Is there a big difference between 19x8.5 and 19x9.5 (looking at the Titan 7s). I assume the handling would be slightly but no fit issues? Are there any advantages to 8.5 width other than maybe a bit more efficiency?

I would stay as close to stock sizes as possible. I would even get the PS4 tire thats developed by Tesla/Michelin. Look for the TO sign attached to it.

 

[Dolemite]

Yes, but there is more to it than that... Every tire manufacturer has different sidewall stiffness. So if you are looking for nothing but cornering performance, I would pick a tire with stiff sidewall, combined with a lightweight forged 18" wheel for quicker acceleration out of the corner.

Do you know of an objective way manufacturers post sidewall stiffness?

I would stay as close to stock sizes as possible. I would even get the PS4 tire thats developed by Tesla/Michelin. Look for the TO sign attached to it.

Why do you recommend this?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Do you know of an objective way manufacturers post sidewall stiffness?


Why do you recommend this?

Noise reduction from what I understand. Until I see hard data that says more than that I’ll pocket the change and buy a spare wheel and tire instead.

 

[dfwatt]

Go for 18inch with 18lb wheels. Ankle weight is the worst thing for the car. The only time you can over look it is for bigger brakes for tracking. If you don't do that, then its the looks which are subjective to how much cooler it looks. In the end everyone complains about range and 0-60 acceleration, which you deal with 99% of the time.
If i could fit a 17lb wheel that is 17inch I would do it. It would give you probably 15+ miles compared to the 18 aeros. At that point it can't be treated as a sports car in anyway.

P3d stock 20 is rated at 280mi not 310mi!

This post packs a lot of misinformation into a compact space.

First of all range has almost nothing to do with unsprung weight. While that does impact 0 to 60 times in terms of increased versus decreased rotational inertia, it does not impact range. Secondly, I'm not sure who you're referencing when you talk about how everybody complains about range and 0 to 60 times? Who's complaining? Third, the range for the Dual Motor Performance version is actually 310 miles and not 280 miles.

 

[ElectricIAC]

This post packs a lot of misinformation into a compact space.

First of all range has almost nothing to do with unsprung weight. While that does impact 0 to 60 times in terms of increased versus decreased rotational inertia, it does not impact range. Secondly, I'm not sure who you're referencing when you talk about how everybody complains about range and 0 to 60 times? Who's complaining? Third, the range for the Dual Motor Performance version is actually 310 miles and not 280 miles.

“Range”

Even using light acceleration and staying at 5 under to exactly the speed limits I’ve been fairly hard pressed to see anything beyond ~230 off a 100% down to 5% on a P3D+.

 

[dfwatt]

“Range”

Even using light acceleration and staying at 5 under to exactly the speed limits I’ve been fairly hard pressed to see anything beyond ~230 off a 100% down to 5% on a P3D+.

Your issue is the with EPA, not me. We all agree, and it's been discussed ad nauseum, that the EPA range estimates are VERY optimistic, unless you are talking about around town and secondary road driving. But the EPA numbers at least provide something of a level playing field, and remove the gamesmanship of manufacturers claims about milage and range.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

This post packs a lot of misinformation into a compact space.

First of all range has almost nothing to do with unsprung weight. While that does impact 0 to 60 times in terms of increased versus decreased rotational inertia, it does not impact range. Secondly, I'm not sure who you're referencing when you talk about how everybody complains about range and 0 to 60 times? Who's complaining? Third, the range for the Dual Motor Performance version is actually 310 miles and not 280 miles.

It was rated at 310 miles in 2019, until they retested in 2020 with 18's (322 miles), 19's (304 miles) & 20's (299 miles)