Looking for some wisdom for choosing 75D vs 100D

[henderrj]

Before we got our Tesla it had been two decades since we took a long road trip. Now we've taken four! It is fun, much better than flying. I have an 85 but wish I had a hundred. Still, the 85 or the 75 is fine for trips, the 100 just a whole lot better. By the way, when I say long trip, I mean five thousand miles.

 

[D.E.]

Wat?

The 100D 0.1s faster than the 75D - 4.1s vs 4.2s. Imperceptible. So absolutely not "substantially quicker."

The 100D will charge faster because of the battery pack. This matters most when supercharging and is a nice benefit.

Here's an article:
Tesla unlocks even more power in Model S 100D, 0-60 mph now down to 3.6 seconds
They saw a 0-60 time of 3.6 seconds with a S100D. If their graph is accurate, it appears to be 3.6 seconds from a standing start while the reported time with the S75D includes a start with a 1 foot rollout, so the time for the S75D is more of a true 6-60 time than a 0-60 time.

I've seen reports of faster times for the S75D as well. I hesitate to quote numbers here because I don't have the sources at hand.

ILLCOM, I think the S100D is quite a bit quicker but I am going on things I've read. I have no firsthand experience with the S100D. My uncorked S75D feels damn quick. I don't know the true answer, but it might be important to this person making the choice. If the figures are accurate, that S100D could be a full second quicker. A second is the difference in mine before and after uncorking and that was a huge difference. Anyway, I don't really have any strong feelings here but I would like what I write to be accurate so if there is better info out there, I'd certainly like seeing it.

Best,
David

 

[xilex]

I own a 75d and a P100d. For you the 75d is a MUCH better choice. Asside from the money, it's more efficient. Charging with 110 means you're limited in how much juice you can put in the vehicle every night. You want the car with the highest efficiency which will get you the furthest on the 10-15kw you can add nightly.

When people show the only pro of the 75 being the cost, that's just not true.

When I test drove a Model S, they told me to punch it on the freeway, and I said hmm that is pretty good acceleration, it turned out to be a P100D. The acceleration was on ludicrous mode, so I told them to put it into standard. The punchiness was definitely less. I had to press more on the pedal to get what acceleration I wanted but it never matched the very first second of ludicrous acceleration. Do you agree?

I'm deciding between a S75D and an S100D. Both are inventory with a few miles on them. The 100D has a bigger discount, including tax credit (18%) vs the S75D (10%). The diff in price is about $10k. My 3 day a week commute is 50mi/rt, plus 1 day a week 100mi/rt. Maybe 1 long road trip max. I live in a condo building where installing a home charger would be expensive and a headache to get it going. I have a SC 1 mile from home and 1 mile from work.

Where is this? My "discount" was 2.5%.

 

[Peteski]

When I test drove a Model S, they told me to punch it on the freeway, and I said hmm that is pretty good acceleration, it turned out to be a P100D. The acceleration was on ludicrous mode, so I told them to put it into standard. The punchiness was definitely less. I had to press more on the pedal to get what acceleration I wanted but it never matched the very first second of ludicrous acceleration. Do you agree?

Nobody is saying that the P100D isn't significantly quicker, it's a LOT quicker than either of the non-P models. But people are talking about the difference between a 75D and a 100D, which is a far more subtle difference. In practice I couldn't actually tell any subjective difference at all (although I was comparing X 75D vs X 100D both uncorked).

 

[Peteski]

Here's an article:
Tesla unlocks even more power in Model S 100D, 0-60 mph now down to 3.6 seconds
They saw a 0-60 time of 3.6 seconds with a S100D. If their graph is accurate, it appears to be 3.6 seconds from a standing start while the reported time with the S75D includes a start with a 1 foot rollout, so the time for the S75D is more of a true 6-60 time than a 0-60 time.

I've seen reports of faster times for the S75D as well. I hesitate to quote numbers here because I don't have the sources at hand.

ILLCOM, I think the S100D is quite a bit quicker but I am going on things I've read. I have no firsthand experience with the S100D. My uncorked S75D feels damn quick. I don't know the true answer, but it might be important to this person making the choice. If the figures are accurate, that S100D could be a full second quicker. A second is the difference in mine before and after uncorking and that was a huge difference. Anyway, I don't really have any strong feelings here but I would like what I write to be accurate so if there is better info out there, I'd certainly like seeing it.

Best,
David

All the user graphs I've seen for both 75D and 100D have shown 0-60 quicker than the official Tesla figures, so not sure what to make of that data. I did drive an X75D back-to-back with an X100D (I realise this is the S forum, but should be a similar result) and couldn't feel any difference in performance up to motorway speed. If one was a full second quicker it would have been pretty obvious to me. I certainly wouldn't buy a 100D just for the performance gain over a 75D, which is the main reason I did the test as it happens. Of course the P100D is vastly quicker than either, but I couldn't justify the cost for my usage.

 

[Peteski]

The 100D will be substantially quicker, it will charge more quickly when looking at miles of range per minute of charge. It is quicker because the battery pack supplies a higher voltage. I don't have any experience charging a 100D with 120 house current. I charge my 75D with 120V and I see about 4 miles of range per hour of charge.

The uncorked 75D is quick. The 100D is quicker, though. The barrety capacity is ~1/3 higher.

You'll be happy with either, I'm sure.

Just to be clear to anyone, charging at home is always going to be limited by your home charger, not the battery size. FWIW I get about 20 miles/hr at home with my 75D on 240V. I would actually get slightly less on a 100D as the charge rate would be the same, but the car is slightly less efficient because of the extra battery weight.

The quicker charging only applies to Supercharging when the 75D will taper sooner. But I still get over 200 mph when Supercharging most of the time, so it's no big deal to me.

As for the performance difference, try it for yourself. I don't think there's much in after the 75 power was seriously upgraded last year.

 

[smilepak]

I have a 70D at the moment and faced a similar dilemma. At the time, the decision was between 70D or 85D. Now having owned this vehicle a little over 3 years and over 65k miles on it with several trips to Las Vegas, San Diego, and around the broader greater southern California area often (mostly ever weekend), I have to say I should've gotten the 85D.

I live in the inland empire and go to Orange County often. My daily commute is 30-40 miles one way and averages about 75-90 miles per day. I find that often time, I do have things come up after work and needing to go somewhere. Sometimes I can plan for it and charge up at work before I leave and other times it comes up last minute where I have to go to the SC and spend 30 minutes to 45 minutes.

I drive to the San Fernando Valley on occasion as well, by the time getting to the destination and going elsewhere with a group of people, it's a pain as you don't have much left to really drive around w/o having to spend 30 minutes - 45 minutes to charge.

I say if you have the extra cash, by all mean you should do it and get the 100D

 

[mike25]

I found that the benefit of the 100D on long trip is very measurable. If you look at the Tesla trip planner (Go Anywhere | Tesla) you will see that the difference between a Seattle to Bend OR is 45 minutes (6:13 vs 7 hours) or single day trip to Mount Rainer and back, you simply don't need to charge the 100D at arrive home with plenty left.

The charging speed is also faster. I often get above 300 miles/hr at Supercharger.

In case you need to leave the car for few days at the airport you also have 25% more battery of phantom drain.

In the city it don't matter that much as long as you can charge at home.

 

[Krash]

Here is a 0-60 performance comparison between my S75D and SKRGO's S100D. My SoC is lower so it is not perfect, but you get the idea. The S100D has the same torque limit so first couple seconds look the same. If anything the regular S75D is imperceptively faster when the cars are in that torque limited range, because the S75D is lighter. Now when they get past that range, the S100D (and BTX8 400v S75D below) always have more power. Again, this is most noticeable in high speed passing.

We don't have a quarter mile runlog from a non performance S100D, but we do have one from that non US S75D with the 400v BTX8 battery. If you look at the bottom graph you can see green and gray lines are the same for the first two seconds when the torque is limited and then diverge. Distance data at the end is extrapolated since the GPS is now nerfed to 1Hz rather than the 4Hz of the velocity and power reported by the API...

 

[Cricket88]

Yet again, that's simply imposing your personal usage profile onto everyone else. For you a 100D makes a lot of sense, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for everyone else.

No one is imposing anything on anyone. We all wear big boy/girl pants in here. (I hope)

I’m sharing my personal experiences that as a Daily driver, biggest difference between 75 vs 100 (for me) was having to think about charging on weekends, vs not having to charge at all.

I’m able to fully charge to 100% on Friday, drive all weekend, enjoy family time, go whenever/wherever, and still make it back to work on Monday (to start the charging routine, etc)

That battery bump was just enough to make my weekends that much more enjoyable.

I can afford a 100D, but it would be an insane choice for my usage so I say go with the biggest battery you actually NEED or will at least make some use of regularly.

I’ll stand by my comment: Go with the biggest battery you can afford, or want to pay. If you base your decision solely on what you actually NEED, you’ll only be limiting yourself to anything that might change (or come up) in the future.

No one will truly know what they will actually need. The biggest battery will get you the closest ICE experience you can, with an electric vehicle.

And as much as I enjoy spending passive moments with fellow “superchargers” at 10pm at night, (and listening to your phone conversations Since our cars are so quiet), I’d much rather be at home playing with my kids!

 

[Daniellane]

100D for me.
It’s all about my 90%
(301 in my 100D)
More than my prior Model S 90Ds 100%
No need to charge beyond 90%, even on long road trips, so fewer stops, faster charging at Superchargers, less battery degradation.

 

[Peteski]

I’ll stand by my comment: Go with the biggest battery you can afford, or want to pay.

If I took your advice literally, I would now be pointlessly driving a 100D. I never said your personal experience wasn't valid, it's just not valid for everyone else, so fundamentally flawed as universal advice.

I'll say it again one more time. It's all about assessing your own personal needs, both present and over the car ownership period. If your driving profile changes drastically, then sure you might get caught out, but it's very unlikely to be the end of the world. It's not like the 100D has twice the range or is twice as fast to supercharge. It's just that bit more convenient as you found out yourself.

Of course if you are a multi-millionaire with cash to burn then you would simply get a P100D without a second thought, whether or not you actually needed the range or performance, but that doesn't apply to many. Anyone who can afford a 75D, can almost certainly afford a 100D and probably a P100D at a stretch. But there are always opportunity costs to consider for the vast majority of people.

 

[Peteski]

100D for me.
It’s all about my 90%
(301 in my 100D)
More than my prior Model S 90Ds 100%
No need to charge beyond 90%, even on long road trips, so fewer stops, faster charging at Superchargers, less battery degradation.

Are you going to keep the car long enough to even care about battery degradation? Serious question as degradation often comes up as a reason to buy the bigger battery, yet I've seen little evidence of significant battery degradation even when abused with loads of 100% supercharging etc. Maybe an issue for very long term owners, but I can't imagine it would matter for anyone changing their car every 3-5 years.

My own thoughts were along the lines of running a 100D at say 80% vs a 75D at 90%+ over a 4 year period (maybe 50-60K miles) with very little supercharging (mostly home charging). I very much doubt the 75D battery would suffer much in that timeframe to care about it. As it happens I rarely need to charge over 90% in any case, so the 75 was a no-brainer (for my circumstances).

 

[Peteski]

Here is a 0-60 performance comparison between my S75D and SKRGO's S100D. My SoC is lower so it is not perfect, but you get the idea. The S100D has the same torque limit so first couple seconds look the same. If anything the regular S75D is imperceptively faster when the cars are in that torque limited range, because the S75D is lighter. Now when they get past that range, the S100D (and BTX8 400v S75D below) always have more power. Again, this is most noticeable in high speed passing.

We don't have a quarter mile runlog from a non performance S100D, but we do have one from that non US S75D with the 400v BTX8 battery. If you look at the bottom graph you can see green and gray lines are the same for the first two seconds when the torque is limited and then diverge. Distance data at the end is extrapolated since the GPS is now nerfed to 1Hz rather than the 4Hz of the velocity and power reported by the API...

No doubting the 100D is a bit quicker at the top end, but your 75D looks a little down on power compared to others I've seen with 350-360 kW max. But driving them feels much the same in the real world, especially given that state of battery charge is another factor to consider i.e. better performance at higher state of charge.

Looking again at your data, you only had 60% SOC on your 75D vs 89% on the 100D, so that would explain why your figures look a bit low, exaggerating the performance difference. I'm sure you'd be up around 350-360 kW peak at 90%+ charge. Actually you could say that one small advantage of the bigger battery is more consistent performance across the battery range, but really it's nothing in the real world.

 

[Krash]

...I'm sure you'd be up around 350-360 kW peak at 90%+ charge. Actually you could say that one small advantage of the bigger battery is more consistent performance across the battery range, but really it's nothing in the real world.

Something like that. True that most people can't feel 60kW or 20% difference between the S75D and S100D, since it only exists after the first two seconds of acceleration, but it exists regardless.

 

[Daniellane]

Are you going to keep the car long enough to even care about battery degradation? Serious question as degradation often comes up as a reason to buy the bigger battery, yet I've seen little evidence of significant battery degradation even when abused with loads of 100% supercharging etc. Maybe an issue for very long term owners, but I can't imagine it would matter for anyone changing their car every 3-5 years.

My own thoughts were along the lines of running a 100D at say 80% vs a 75D at 90%+ over a 4 year period (maybe 50-60K miles) with very little supercharging (mostly home charging). I very much doubt the 75D battery would suffer much in that timeframe to care about it. As it happens I rarely need to charge over 90% in any case, so the 75 was a no-brainer (for my circumstances).

This is just my personal experience for my situation & driving habits. I do have an actual basis for comparison, going from a 90 to a 100. I would never go back to a smaller battery. I noticed the advantages immediately.
Less degradation is just an additional benefit.
Reguardless of how long I keep it, some of the price difference will be recouped at trade in.
At home I usually only charge to 60-70%. When supercharging on road trips, in situations where you need to go over 90%, the last 10% slows dramatically.

 

[P85_DA]

I would never go back to a smaller battery. I

This ^^ ... and don’t forget the coat hooks !...I would never go back to 3rd cheap ones ..those hooks were the best $50 I spent on Tesla

 

[D.E.]

Xilex
If you ever think you might later prefer the 100D over the 75D, you'll be better off to get the larger battery now. It will cost much more if you decide to change later.

The 100D will depreciate slightly more than the 75D but the 100D will allways be worth quite a bit more than the 75D. That means the cost of ownership will be just slightly more for the 100D than the 75D, but it won't be anything like the the entire $10,000. If you can plot the anticipated depreciation against the estimated time of your ownership, you might find your anticipated difference in cost of ownership is very much less than the $10,000. You might find that the difference in fully depreciated, and if that is the case, your actual difference in cost of ownership is near zero.

You might check the insurance difference. There might be a difference in the cost of tags.

The first owner of the 100D took the brunt of the difference in depreciation. So I think it probably comes down to whether that $10K in cash is important to you right now. If you invest, you can calculate the future value of that $10K and how much difference that is likely to make over your time of car ownership, after which you'll recover part of that $10K. If you plan to finance, then you can calculate the additional financing charges from that additional $10K. That amount will need to be added to the depreciation cost.

I doubt your actual cost will be anything like the whole $10K. I bought the 75D but for me buying new, the cost differential was much higher. If faced with a real cost of ~$5K or so, I think I might well have opted for the 100D.

Best,
David

 

[Tazman]

I have a 70D at the moment and faced a similar dilemma. At the time, the decision was between 70D or 85D. Now having owned this vehicle a little over 3 years and over 65k miles on it with several trips to Las Vegas, San Diego, and around the broader greater southern California area often (mostly ever weekend), I have to say I should've gotten the 85D.

I live in the inland empire and go to Orange County often. My daily commute is 30-40 miles one way and averages about 75-90 miles per day. I find that often time, I do have things come up after work and needing to go somewhere. Sometimes I can plan for it and charge up at work before I leave and other times it comes up last minute where I have to go to the SC and spend 30 minutes to 45 minutes.

I drive to the San Fernando Valley on occasion as well, by the time getting to the destination and going elsewhere with a group of people, it's a pain as you don't have much left to really drive around w/o having to spend 30 minutes - 45 minutes to charge.

I say if you have the extra cash, by all mean you should do it and get the 100D

Are you not able to upgrade your 70D to 75D and uncork it? Doing that made all the difference for me and I'm really happy I bought the 70 over the 90.

 

[Cricket88]

If you want the closest experience to an ICE car and average out a good 250-300 miles range (before having to charge), go with the biggest battery. Kinda like having a full tank of gas and not having to worry about stopping at a gas station every other night.