Lost range? Poll

[Trevlan006]

My AWD which is about 1 yr old with 3500 miles on it shows only 300 miles with a full charge. Tesla told me this is the car mis-estimating things due to my driving and charging habits. They want me to run it down to 15% and charge up to 85% for the next 6 weeks. The last time I tried that, nothing happened, but I only did it for 2 weeks. If this doesn’t fix things, I’m going to ask for a CAC reset.

Sorry but what is CAC?

 

[darth_vad3r]

Sorry but what is CAC?

Calculated Amp-hour Capacity

 

[darth_vad3r]

have you lost range on your model 3? Recently I noticed I was a 5-7 miles off of the equivalent full charge. Up until very recently, I had the ideal numbers for my LR dual motor 248 miles @ 80% and 279 @ 90%.

Now I’m about 243-244 miles @ 80%. I know battery degradation is normal but wondering how it compares. I have a little over 10,000miles on the odometer

It seems likely that most cases of “degradation” initially reported by new owners are actually just capacity estimate drifts (aka “calibration” issues).
e.g. Being 3 miles off one week and then only 1 off the next isn’t un-degrading (regrading?) the battery.

Degradation is permanent real capacity loss.

It’s impossibile to tell exactly, but we should mostly assume that most of the (short term) “range loss” people see is just the calibration drift. e.g. maybe 3 miles is 0 loss, or 1 lost and 2 drift, etc.

Since March I was flat, then “lost” 1-3 miles, then gained it all back, then “lost” another mile, then got it back. Right now I show ~1 mile “lost” again.

In some extreme cases large rapid loss could be an underlying issue that leads to a service call and possible pack replacement. These seem to hit the “can’t charge to 100%” warning on screen eventually and/or are unable to charge. Sometimes it’s just extreme drift from “keeping your battery healthy” charging practices that Tesla likes to call “poor charging practices” (e.g. it’s poor for calibration but good for your battery to go say, 70-60-70-60 instead of 90-50-90-50 ...)

 

[Can37]

I have a SR+ with 10,000 km on the odo (6,200 miles), I have lost about 6% of my rated range (which does not seem to be achievable) based on my last charge to 100%. I have booked a mobile service appointment to have them look at the battery. I have an e-Golf with 40,000 km that has zero loss of range and the rated range is easily exceeded. I am very unhappy with this situation and I don't see why there should be any range reduction on a car that is only 3 months old.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I have a SR+ with 10,000 km on the odo (6,200 miles), I have lost about 6% of my rated range (which does not seem to be achievable) based on my last charge to 100%. I have booked a mobile service appointment to have them look at the battery. I have an e-Golf with 40,000 km that has zero loss of range and the rated range is easily exceeded. I am very unhappy with this situation and I don't see why there should be any range reduction on a car that is only 3 months old.

You don’t have range loss unless you drive from 100% to 0% and prove it, until then you have a calibration issue on the display.

You also won’t get rated range at 16°C in Ottawa unless you turn all HVAC off and drive super slow. To get rated range you need to drive in such a way that your trip meter shows ~130 Wh/km or less, which is doable at moderate speeds in 25°C temps. As soon as you speed up a bit your chances of getting rated range go down the toilet though. The EPA test doesn’t do launch starts nor does it go fast

What is your typical daily charge and usage pattern? 70-50-70... 90-70-90... ??

 

[dentedwheel]

I'm not sure what has happened, but ever since the app outage (2019-09-03) my 80% charge range has gone from 251 miles to 237 miles.

Model 3 Dual motor Long Range (May 2019)

 

[Can37]

You don’t have range loss unless you drive from 100% to 0% and prove it, until then you have a calibration issue on the display.

You also won’t get rated range at 16°C in Ottawa unless you turn all HVAC off and drive super slow. To get rated range you need to drive in such a way that your trip meter shows ~130 Wh/km or less, which is doable at moderate speeds in 25°C temps. As soon as you speed up a bit your chances of getting rated range go down the toilet though. The EPA test doesn’t do launch starts nor does it go fast

What is your typical daily charge and usage pattern? 70-50-70... 90-70-90... ??

Rated range first, I was fully aware that Tesla takes some serious liberties with the EPA range tests, My e-Golf will meet its range above 20C with ease, I have done 220 km charger to charger in my 201 km range car. Tesla does not meet its EPA range unless you do some heroics.

I am hoping that it is a calibration issue, but I think the decline looks like a bad cell or a few bad cells, I look forward to being wrong. I will see what the ranger can do. My life time consumption is 140 W/km.

I normally change to 80-90% once I get down to 200 km range left. I charge more if I am heading out of town, which I do most weekends and less if I am just in town. If I know I am leaving in the morning, I might fully charge overnight as I did on Monday.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Rated range first, I was fully aware that Tesla takes some serious liberties with the EPA range tests, My e-Golf will meet its range above 20C with ease, I have done 220 km charger to charger in my 201 km range car. Tesla does not meet its EPA range unless you do some heroics.

I am hoping that it is a calibration issue, but I think the decline looks like a bad cell or a few bad cells, I look forward to being wrong. I will see what the ranger can do. My life time consumption is 140 W/km.

I normally change to 80-90% once I get down to 200 km range left. I charge more if I am heading out of town, which I do most weekends and less if I am just in town. If I know I am leaving in the morning, I might fully charge overnight as I did on Monday.

Keep in mind our cars have some high vampire drain compared to others, so 140 Wh/km while driving is missing a lot of Wh/hr while sitting

6% is not small to be sure. Hope it’s nothing major.

I don’t think Tesla’s taking any liberties with the EPA range ... I just think it ticks down quicker on the dash and hides some capacity below zero. If you drive at 140 Wh/km I’d expect you to get about 100km on the road with ~107 km “used” on the dash.

 

[Can37]

Keep in mind our cars have some high vampire drain compared to others, so 140 Wh/km while driving is missing a lot of Wh/hr while sitting .

Yes, the overall efficiency of the 3 is terrible, I hope they reduce the vampire drain over time. I wonder if Teslafi or other analysis tools give away to get the real consumption figures.

 

[jaydiculous]

I have a new LR AWD, about 1800 miles. I charge to 90% all the time at home on a 14-50. When I got the car, 90% was 280-282 miles. After 2019.31 I noticed I was getting 276-278 miles. The past 3 days this has dropped down to 270-273 miles. I'm not sure what to make of this. The only thing I can think of is that I forgot to turn off the A/C?

 

[pdp1]

I too am suffering from "decreased range" as shown by the battery meter on my LR RWD (purchased in Dec 2018, I have about 11k miles on it now). However, when I bring up the energy meter while driving, its estimates are more in line with what I've been experiencing in the past 9 months compared to the rough estimate of the battery meter. I'm not terribly concerned about the "decreased range" but am curious what may be causing it, especially also because the reported trip Wh/mi seems to be higher than before. Like others, all this started after the 2019.28.3.1 update

 

[30seconds]

Yes, the overall efficiency of the 3 is terrible, I hope they reduce the vampire drain over time. I wonder if Teslafi or other analysis tools give away to get the real consumption figures.

odd, I don't have any vampire drain issue. be sure that sentry is turned off - that does seem to be a big swing

 

[darth_vad3r]

I have a new LR AWD, about 1800 miles. I charge to 90% all the time at home on a 14-50. When I got the car, 90% was 280-282 miles. After 2019.31 I noticed I was getting 276-278 miles. The past 3 days this has dropped down to 270-273 miles. I'm not sure what to make of this.

Is “all the time” daily?

What level do you drain down to typically? If it’s really shallow it could still be calibration drift. Like 90-85-90-85...
If it’s 90-50-90-50... I’d say calibration is less likely.

Keep an eye on it. If it continues there could be trouble.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I too am suffering from "decreased range" as shown by the battery meter on my LR RWD (purchased in Dec 2018, I have about 11k miles on it now). However, when I bring up the energy meter while driving, its estimates are more in line with what I've been experiencing in the past 9 months compared to the rough estimate of the battery meter. I'm not terribly concerned about the "decreased range" but am curious what may be causing it, especially also because the reported trip Wh/mi seems to be higher than before. Like others, all this started after the 2019.28.3.1 update

Higher Wh/mi should have nothing to do with the energy gauge (battery display in miles). It’s just an estimate of kWh in your pack divided by a constant Wh/mi for your car. There’s no driving history factored in directly to the miles number shown.

Unless of course they have updated the constant for your car for some reason.

Look at your trip meter charts in 5, 15, 30 miles and do the following math (3 times):
(average Wh/mi) x (projected range miles) / (miles displayed on the dash)

This should be your car’s base constant. For LR RWD, IIRC, that should be 234 Wh/mi.

Your 3 numbers should all be 234 or close to it. You can repeat these 3 calculations several times a day and take an average to get a better read on it.

 

[jaydiculous]

Is “all the time” daily?

What level do you drain down to typically? If it’s really shallow it could still be calibration drift. Like 90-85-90-85...
If it’s 90-50-90-50... I’d say calibration is less likely.

Keep an eye on it. If it continues there could be trouble.

Yes I charge daily no matter how low it goes. Yesterday I drove around 60-65 miles. The battery when I plugged it in yesterday had roughly ~190 miles? So that's like 70% usage (190/272)? Normally it's less usage. I'll definitely keep monitoring. Will get Teslafi next week for better logging.

 

[jerryfan2000]

Last Sunday, I did a same day Toronto - Montreal trip with my MR with battery health curtly at 403km rated range. Also wanted to see if going down to 10% and charge up to 100% will bring back the lost range but no avail. I actually made the battery under 5% twice and under 10% once. During the trip, I had one charge set to 90% and one charge set to 100%. In the 90% charge, I saw calculating few minute before the charge became complete. In the 100% charge, the car stayed in 100% with charge time showing 30min remaining for extended period of time. So I think the battery did get calibrated or balanced during the trip. But in the end, I gained only 1km.

 

[w0ss]

I am curious if some of the range lost is some newly reserved capacity. I have a LR RWD and noticed on my last charge to 100% I had some Regen going down my driveway. I recall the last time I took it to 100% before the "range loss" I had zero Regen. I am at ~315 miles full charge vs the 325 that I was hitting before it dropped.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I am curious if some of the range lost is some newly reserved capacity. I have a LR RWD and noticed on my last charge to 100% I had some Regen going down my driveway. I recall the last time I took it to 100% before the "range loss" I had zero Regen. I am at ~315 miles full charge vs the 325 that I was hitting before it dropped.

For sure, if they just nerfed some people from say, 4.15V per cell max charge from the wall to 4.10V max charge from the wall, they could allow for some regen charging to happen when you are at 4.10V if they wanted to.

Whereas normally if 4.15V is their absolute hard cap, you would not be able to do any regen charging.

 

[djroberts]

I'd imagine there are some dates analysis online. Anyone have a recommendation?

 

[RedRyder268]

have you lost range on your model 3? Recently I noticed I was a 5-7 miles off of the equivalent full charge. Up until very recently, I had the ideal numbers for my LR dual motor 248 miles @ 80% and 279 @ 90%.

Now I’m about 243-244 miles @ 80%. I know battery degradation is normal but wondering how it compares. I have a little over 10,000miles on the odometer

I have 11000 miles on my LR AWD with 19inch wheels. My 90% charge has dropped from 279 to 270 now.