Luton Airport Car Park 2 Fire

[Drew57]

I also heard the BBC correspondent finish his report with a claim that it was an EV that started the fire.

Whether that's true or not, it's so regularly reported as the cause accompanied with dramatic imagery that viewers are bound to believe and remember it regardless of any later confirmation of the actual facts.

 

[JupiterMan]

car park had no sprinkler system installed as reported by BBC. Seems pretty odd, as that is a pretty new carpark IIRC

 

[looseend]

Fire guy says it was probably a diesel car:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67075159?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65265b54364b3f1612ec45b1%26Fire%20likely%20started%20in%20a%20diesel%20car%20-%20fire%20chief%262023-10-11T08%3A35%3A26.719Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:542c5315-4c20-4a80-ad03-095153b730fa&pinned_post_asset_id=65265b54364b3f1612ec45b1&pinned_post_type=share

 

[Kansalis]

I was bored so I did some Googling. I'm not trying to confirm/convince anyone of anything, just satisfying my own curiosity.

This is a capture of the Range Rover Evoque on fire doing the rounds on Twitter/X:

(The Instagram account this seems to have come from does not have the video up any more, if it ever did)

Some are claiming it's fake and the video is not at Luton Airport car park 2. This is from Google Maps street view:

Looks like the same car park to me, based on the ceilings.

Seems the Evoque may have caught fire while driving, as it's not in a parking space, so could have happened anywhere. Very unfortunate to happen in the middle of a busy car park!

 

[ACarneiro]

the limited chargers are in Car Park 1!

And only one of them works. And outputting 6A maximum. They're crap.

 

[ACarneiro]

And so it begins!
but does he have a point?
View attachment 981354
ICE fires burn at 800-1000 degrees based on my very brief research. EV fires can reach nearly 3000 degrees centigrade.
one of the things 911 taught us is that Steel loses most of its strength well before its melting point of 1400-1500 degrees?
View attachment 981355
Are multi-storey carparks ( particularly ones under buildings) designed to survive the temperatures of a serious ICE fire? It would be tricky given the above graph I guess the underground ones particularly have fire suppression systems for that reason
but would sprinklers work on a car that brings its own fuel and oxygen to the party and is not readily put out by water?

Edit: I have been on here a long time so you guys know I am not a troll. Just interested in having an open and honest discussion if that is still possible in 2023

I would imagine that water may not be able to put the fire out but might be able to reduce temperatures significantly?
Interesting points you raise, though. I think there will be some people looking at this closely, I just hope we don't get banned from public parking. That would be a disaster.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Mod comment:
There are many conflicting views and "a friend told me.." opinions. None of them, either way, are definitive. Even the picture of the LR might not actually be the car thats on fine but close to it, it could be a hybrid which does challenge EVs, or it could be from another incident.

I'll leave the thread open as we like a good consipiracy theory thats not talking about parking sensors or indicator stalks but I remind people not to make personal criticisms, just debate what few facts are known

 

[ACarneiro]

Mod comment:
There are many conflicting views and "a friend told me.." opinions. None of them, either way, are definitive. Even the picture of the LR might not actually be the car thats on fine but close to it, it could be a hybrid which does challenge EVs, or it could be from another incident.

I'll leave the thread open as we like a good consipiracy theory thats not talking about parking sensors or indicator stalks but I remind people not to make personal criticisms, just debate what few facts are known

Not sure if my earlier post falls under the "personal criticism", I was merely pointing out that the poster and his post didn't seem credible to me.

 

[browellm]

If it's infinitely harder to contain, does that mean Luton will be on fire until the heat death of the universe?

Always an upside.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Without my mod hat,

..whatever the cause, if batteries start going up in flames it gets pretty bad pretty quickly. We probably all saw the videos of electric bike batteries going up over the summer in people hallways. My nephew (so class my comment in the same sceptical way as any other "my mate says..") is a mechanic at BMW and they have specific precautions for EVs and keeping them away from petrol/diesel when working on them, I was also told a while back (so possibly false) that the reason why tyre places don't/didn;t like EVs is their insurers wouldn't cover them until staff had been specifically trained in EVs handling and fire safety equipment had been updated.. Something thats now being sorted out by most of them. It wasn't just a anti EV conspiracy theory even if we think it was a bit of an over reaction

Who knows where the truth is., I'm just glad my car's not in there somewhere.

 

[ajmorr.is]

Even the picture of the LR might not actually be the car thats on fine but close to it, it could be a hybrid which does challenge EVs, or it could be from another incident.

It could indeed be from another incident and also could have been started by another car nearby. BUT if the Evoque pictured is the cause, then that car is a pre-facelift and so not a PHEV.

 

[davyjohns]

Quote from the SUN at 09:44 today.

"THE horror blaze at Luton Airport started in a vehicle with a diesel engine that had just arrived at the car park, a fire chief has revealed."

He said: "We have no intelligence at this stage to suggest that this was anything other than an accidental fire that started in one of the vehicles that had not long arrived at the airport.

"It was not an EV. This was a diesel powered vehicle."

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Quote from the SUN at 09:44 today.

"THE horror blaze at Luton Airport started in a vehicle with a diesel engine that had just arrived at the car park, a fire chief has revealed."

He said: "We have no intelligence at this stage to suggest that this was anything other than an accidental fire that started in one of the vehicles that had not long arrived at the airport.

"It was not an EV. This was a diesel powered vehicle."

Can you imagine filling in the insurance claim and the premium when you next go for insurance and have to declare £50m worth of damage as a result of your last claim!

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I would imagine that water may not be able to put the fire out but might be able to reduce temperatures significantly?
Interesting points you raise, though. I think there will be some people looking at this closely, I just hope we don't get banned from public parking. That would be a disaster.

The recommended procedure with an EV battery fire if there isn't any other method available and the car can't easily be moved is simply to douse it with water continuously. So sprinklers might help but a larger volume of water is better.
There are F500 hand-held extinguishers available designed specifically for Li-ion fires. Whether it's worth putting these next to charging stations or in car parks is debatable. Cost, vandalism, rareity of EV fires all come into it.

Lithium-Ion Fire Extinguishers - F500 - Lithium Ion Battery Extinguisher

Lithium-Ion Fire Extinguishers - F500 is the only recommended product for tackling lithium-ion fires such as lithium-ion car battery fires which are very difficult to extinguish with water alone. F500 is a hydrocarbon encapsulation product producing 10 times the cooling effect of water alone.

f500-fct.co.uk

 

[ACarneiro]

they have specific precautions for EVs and keeping them away from petrol/diesel when working on them

Well, yes. But that's when you're working on the car which is not a standard mode of operation and that seems very sensible. Gas engineers also have special precautions when working on gas lines and electricians have special precautions when working in the electrics because they're subjecting those systems to non-standard failure modes.
Doesn't make EVs inherently more dangerous. Just... different (he says, clearly biased towards EVs)

 

[ACarneiro]

The recommended procedure with an EV battery fire if there isn't any other method available and the car can't easily be moved is simply to douse it with water continuously. So sprinklers might help but a larger volume of water is better.
There are F500 hand-held extinguishers available designed specifically for Li-ion fires. Whether it's worth putting these next to charging stations or in car parks is debatable. Cost, vandalism, rareity of EV fires all come into it.

Lithium-Ion Fire Extinguishers - F500 - Lithium Ion Battery Extinguisher

Lithium-Ion Fire Extinguishers - F500 is the only recommended product for tackling lithium-ion fires such as lithium-ion car battery fires which are very difficult to extinguish with water alone. F500 is a hydrocarbon encapsulation product producing 10 times the cooling effect of water alone.

f500-fct.co.uk

Yes, I believe the SOP for Li-ion battery fires in commercial aircraft (phones, power banks, etc) it to take them to the galley, put them in the sink and just douse with as much water as you can.

I appreciate this is orders of magnitude less stored energy but then again a sprinkler system can output orders of magnitude more water as well....

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Yes, I believe the SOP for Li-ion battery fires in commercial aircraft (phones, power banks, etc) it to take them to the galley, put them in the sink and just douse with as much water as you can.

I appreciate this is orders of magnitude less stored energy but then again a sprinkler system can output orders of magnitude more water as well....

I'd like to see a risk assessment for a new multi-strey car park and how it addresses the possibility of vehicle fires and preventing the spread. These fires are quite rare and maybe the relatively low risk to life means they don't/won't cost in an effective fire-suppression system?

 

[UrbanSplash]

Imagine it was a car ferry…. Regardless of how it started. It’s extremely bad once EVs are in the mix.

 

[M1tch]

It’s the same pile of crap as this Via Euronews: Man 'kidnapped' by his runaway EV had to have police ram his car off the road Man 'kidnapped' by his runaway EV rammed off the road by police

He wasn’t “kidnapped” the brakes on his car failed. Make, model and powertrain were irrelevant but yet again the media can spread whatever lies they want to make headlines.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Well, yes. But that's when you're working on the car which is not a standard mode of operation and that seems very sensible. Gas engineers also have special precautions when working on gas lines and electricians have special precautions when working in the electrics because they're subjecting those systems to non-standard failure modes.
Doesn't make EVs inherently more dangerous. Just... different (he says, clearly biased towards EVs)

I didn't say anything different and I'm not saying they are a higher risk, just an insurer might requrie fire safety training which includes EV fires and thats not historically been included. Doesn't matter what might cause the problem, just that it might occur. It's easy to assume that it's stupid, and it may seem so to the lay person, but unless we're privvy to the risk assessment etc then I'm not sure we're qualified to say.

I guess I'm just saying I'm open to the idea that there was a reason that wasn't wrapped up in daily mail conspiracy theories, big oil and the old school auto manufacturers having a widespread control over independent tyre places to the extent they wouldn't work on EVs and that there might be a much simpler explanation that an insurance or industry protocol was introduced that specific training and a car sized fire blanket was required before they were allowed to work on EVs. I have a gut feeling which is more credible.