M3 Pre-facelift vs post refresh. Which is the smart used buy now?

[WannabeOwner]

Indeed, the problem is "normally" and how often that actually matters in real life.

First Supercharger in France heading South East from Calais is at St Quentin - 106 miles, which then requires charging at Folkestone Chunnel which can interfere with trying to catch a specific train (and if using the Dover ferry then the last Supercharger is at Maidstone which adds another 41 miles to that leg)

Going South West the Supercharger gap from Rouen to Le Mans is 112 miles.

None of this is insurmountable, and there are other non-Tesla chargers which fill the gaps, but IME it just becomes easier with more range.

Not a consideration for folk rarely needing it, or with time on their hands etc. but I suspect not great for folk of a nervous disposition particularly if they would not be inclined to use planning tools before setting off

 

[spdpsba]

First Supercharger in France heading South East from Calais is at St Quentin - 106 miles, which then requires charging at Folkestone Chunnel which can interfere with trying to catch a specific train

Is there not a supercharger at the Calais end - if we miss the charging at Folkstone b’cos of timing etc.,?

 

[WannabeOwner]

Is there not a supercharger at the Calais end - if we miss the charging at Folkstone b’cos of timing etc.,?

Yes, there is one in Coguelles (outside the port area - within the port area Superchargers only available for departures)

 

[WannabeOwner]

Dunno why, but Superchargers only show up on this Google Maps of France if I zoom right in

Coquelles Supercharger convenient if travelling South West along the coast, but have to double-back if then heading South East or to Holland

 

[Mrklaw]

I know SC are good but especially for France there are aires with other choices like fastned so the gaps aren't that big unless you absolutely want to stick to SCs.

also I did say for UK travel if your 'normal' is long trips across France then a LR may be perfect

 

[spdpsba]

View attachment 960019

Dunno why, but Superchargers only show up on this Google Maps of France if I zoom right in

Coquelles Supercharger convenient if travelling South West along the coast, but have to double-back if then heading South East or to Holland

Thanks, will try and charge before I leave UK - if not use the Coquelles SC - have no other choice other than using another third party ones, don’t want to do that as soon as I get out in France.

 

[WannabeOwner]

unless you absolutely want to stick to SCs.

Yeah, free-for-me, so a bit biased because of that!

 

[GlynG]

Well I'll buck the trend.
You are looking for a used base model 3 - maybe leaning (after all the previous comments for a post refresh) but I strongly don't agree its the wisest choice.

How could anyone want less range - or 4 wheel drive - especially in the winter when range gets compromised because of the temperatures but also the additional energy draw the car uses for lighting, heating, air con etc, and 4 wheels driven offer better traction in snow - so a post refresh base model will probably price wise be comparable for a pre refresh long range - and that's the model you should go for - and for lots of reasons.

I'll start by saying whatever car you decide on - buy under 4 years old and under 50K miles - this way you get the option to extend the warranty by up to 4 more years Some like extended warranty others take the risk - but you can decide what's right for you.
My comments therefore are based around the Long range pre refresh model and I have excluded the base model completely - so if its got to be a base model then don't read any further.

Sweet spot is 2020 up to about November of that year. The Chrome, personally I really like it and you can delete it at low cost if you prefer black but Tesla replaced Chrome with Satin Black simply because of cost - Chrome is a lot more expensive and it lasts a very long time without tarnishing - unlike Satin black - washing chemicals attack the surface and its doesn't wear too well unless the car has been super well looked after and the black protected.

The 2020s had the older centre console - its a much better engineered console and even has sensors built in to the flap - close it hard and it pops right up again - and the sensor puts a message on the screen to close gently - The front section has another flap - lift it up and you can have a wireless phone charger under there - everything out of sight plus two USBs inside the large cubby hole where you can fit a hub, an SSD for camera and sentry recording and all USBs carry data - unlike the later models.

The passenger seat - 2020 had an electrically operated lumber support - removed from refresh cars.
Door cards - 2020 all the card is soft feel - later cars got hard plastic - and if you choose a white interior you will have a white inset panel in the card - later cars all got black fake Alcantara.

The sound system on LR and performance is upgraded from the base model with additional speakers and sub - You also get heated rear seats - something the base model didn't get.

Biggest issues with 2020 were panel gaps sometimes being a bit poor but its something you can immediately see on viewing a car so dead easy to reject it if it displeases you and paint flaking off the sills - another easy to see issue - the only other thing that was quite common was the premature failing of the 12v lead acid battery - though many have no issues and still going strong today - it was replaced by a 15v LI battery in the refresh - much better.

The refresh brought quite a few changes, heated steering wheel, LI Battery, 3D6 motor, Powered boot lid, Heat pump, larger capacity HV battery up from 75Kwhr to 82Kwhr, Ryzen processor, 2 reversing lights, Laminated front windows, Matrix Headlamps, that's the major changes but there were little things like removal of the SOS button in the roof lining, bag hooks in the frunk and the carpet in the frunk, but i focus on the major stuff.

Heated steering wheel - lovely - no drawbacks to that.
LI battery - ditto, no drawbacks
3D6 motor - all positive benefits - slightly more efficient than the motor it replaced.
Powered Boot lid - well what a disaster that is - Tesla - to save money fitted just one powered strut, many have failed and as they broke it has damaged paintwork and smashed the rear screen - there is an imbalance with one side taking all the weight and the ball joint usually fails first, aftermarket powered systems all supply two powered struts and never heard of a strut breaking, You can fit yourself and complete kit is £379 for Hannshow kit.
Heat pump - or its proper name the Octovalve. Its on its 5th revision, its noisy and so large in fact the frunk is smaller to accommodate it, its heat generation takes much longer than the older resistive heater which is rated at 6Kws and provides near silent instant heat. Now the big debate - the super extra efficiency of the heat pump models. I will use my car figures for comparison that has a resistive heater, rated at 315 miles for 100% charge, Heat pump models indicated 353 miles for 100% of battery - so 38 additional miles - however, heat pump models got an extra 7Kwhr battery which explains away 28 of those extra miles - so the difference is just 10 miles - and of course range is dependant on so many factors so the difference is very little - and the car will nag you to charge it anyway and plot a route to a charger - so it isn't an issue.
Ryzen Processor - faster but generates more heat and consumes a little more power but in the real world no negatives with it.
2 reversing lights - much better, the single light is like a candle.
Laminated front windows - not sure why though, if it was to reduce sound then the rears should also be done but they are not, plus no insulation under the bonnet, in the boot on the top panel and the A to C roof bar is hollow and open ended behind the front wheel liner which conducts road noise through it - and your right ear is just inches away from it when driving - so i don't see a benefit of this.
Matrix Headlamps - but they are dumb - but will project "Tesla" onto a wall but maybe future software will enable them.

What you want and what you want to pay will be the final decision as its your car - just wanted to put another perspective to consider.

 

[Mrklaw]

I don’t get the AWD thing in this country. There are of course exceptions but for most of the country it snows rarely enough to be an issue and I’ve always managed with RWD cars (often with big fat tyres and big engines) and been fine. I’m either careful if I get caught out in it, or avoid going out in it if possible.

It may factor into a purchase if the price was close, but if I’m pushing a budget I don’t think it’d be high on the list, or I’d at least flag if it was important to me if I’m asking strangers for advice

 

[NP90]

Agree, probably the OP can have a bit of a tiered approach.

Unicorn at the top - highly unlikely to get it because of the rarity - Q4 2021 - Q1 2022 - not many cars

Q2 2021 & Q3 2021 - 262 miles (what OP prefers - less), less in price b’cos of the year model, but will have heated steering, heat pump, dechrome, heated rear seats etc., - few of them around

Q1 2021 & Q4 & Q3 2020 - 262 miles, less in price, but no heated steering or heated rear seats, but heat pump +, dechrome + - many available

Q2 2022 & Q3 2022 and some Q4s - slightly bigger battery (305 miles), slightly higher price, will have all of the above plus Ryzen processor - many available

Before Q3 2020 - much less in terms of price, but Chrome +, no heat pump and slightly lesser miles - many cars available


Probably this might help the OP.

Does this list also apply to Used M3P or just M3? If not, is there an M3P list I could consult? Thanks

 

[EVMeister]

I don’t get the AWD thing in this country. There are of course exceptions but for most of the country it snows rarely enough to be an issue and I’ve always managed with RWD cars (often with big fat tyres and big engines) and been fine. I’m either careful if I get caught out in it, or avoid going out in it if possible.

It's nice to have in wet conditions as well, not just snow. The level of grip and traction when accelerating hard in the wet is amazing on the AWD Model 3s. Not that the RWDs feel "unsafe" and they perform perfectly fine with somewhat gentler acceleration levels in the wet. Even for the RWDs the traction control is good enough that most people won't spin the wheels very much if at all even when mashing the accelerator in the wet, which is nice (though it will be limiting acceleration).

 

[spdpsba]

Does this list also apply to Used M3P or just M3? If not, is there an M3P list I could consult? Thanks

Just the base M3 that includes, SR, SR+ and RWD disguises.

 

[Mrklaw]

It's nice to have in wet conditions as well, not just snow. The level of grip and traction when accelerating hard in the wet is amazing on the AWD Model 3s. Not that the RWDs feel "unsafe" and they perform perfectly fine with somewhat gentler acceleration levels in the wet. Even for the RWDs the traction control is good enough that most people won't spin the wheels very much if at all even when mashing the accelerator in the wet, which is nice (though it will be limiting acceleration).

I guess I'm just past the 'driving hard' or 'twisties' these days. Used to love driving some routes to work and back but these days its nearly always congested so I've just fallen into 'appliance' mode I think. When I win the lottery I'll buy a trailer and a trackday exige

 

[Adopado]

Laminated front windows - not sure why though, if it was to reduce sound then the rears should also be done but they are not

The reason for the laminated side windows is primarily safety ... and a possible consequent manufacturer liability*. Any benefit with regard to sound insulation is just a bonus. The safety issue (all car brands) is with regard to passengers being partially or completely ejected during rollover crashes (even when using safety belts) if toughened window glass breaks and drops out.

*This issue was identified by safety studies in the USA years ago where it was shown that the likelihood of death was significantly and predictably increased when occupants were ejected. The issue and the solution (laminated side windows) was made clear to manufacturers. Some manufacturers responded by fitting laminated side glass but many/most didn't. Apparently there have been successful liability claims in the USA with regard to this.

Of course there are counter arguments made about difficulty of access from the vehicle or into the vehicle by first responders in the event of a crash or in the rare situation where a car ends up in deep water and doors can't be opened. Tesla currently compromises by having rear sides toughened/tempered and the front sides laminated.

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/the-sordid-history-of-auto-safety-glass-19112

Car Window Defect Lawyers | When Faulty Windows Cause Injury

Ask our nationally respected team at The Gilbert Law Group® whether your injury was caused by a car window defect. Our lawyers have taken on big automakers and won.

www.thegilbertlawgroup.com

 

[GlynG]

So It protect the driver and front seat passenger but sod the rear passengers regarding the laminated glass - with a seat belt on there is no chance of anyone being ejected from the vehicle in a rollover accident unless the restraints system fails, and then you have a much bigger problem than the glass.

4 wheel drive, like @Mrklaw most of my cars were two wheel drive and I also had some quite powerful cars with big fat tyres and in 50 years of driving I've been stuck just once in snow - indeed when a lot younger I used to go out in the snow just to slide the car about - but I'm wiser now and accept I'm not invincible like I used to be.
Lots of power with two wheel drive will cause traction loss, especially on front wheel drive cars where the steering input is also loaded onto the tyres. The car I traded in to get my M3P was a Mk3 Focus RS - 4 wheel drive.

EVs produce all their torque instantly from no rotation unlike an ICE which always have a power band higher up in the rev range so slippage is more likely with an EV and indeed harder to get going from stationary when on snow or Ice - hence the slip start function as rocking really isn't possible in an EV.

I also forgot to mention in my last post my theory regarding the heat pump - and it is a theory based on some facts and logic.

The Heat pump is less efficient if heating the car prior to getting in it, and is less efficient than a resistive heater for short journeys due to the nature of how the heat pump works though it will be more efficient on a long run.

I see the heat pump as simply mimicking the resistive heater - Fact - the heat generated for the heat pump is derived from altering the efficiency of the drive motor(s) to generate heat.
The resistive heater is simply elements made from tungsten that are slightly too small to pass the voltage/amperage through without glowing - a fan behind it blows cool air over the elements which results in hot air - so the same as a fan heater at home.
The resistive heater in an EV is located within the cabin as is the fan blower - so its instant heat - and @ 6Kwts in the Tesla - Ultra reliable but usually fail if the fan stops working and the tungsten elements overheat and burn out.

Heat Pump - its using the windings in the motors to generate heat (by reducing the efficiency) so pretty much the same as the resistive heater but the heat generated is absorbed by the cooling water system which is pumped back to the Octovalve where it directs that water to a standard matrix within the car that has a fan behind it - therefore its inefficient in comparison as it relies on the transfer of heat to water. On a long run the motors naturally produce heat - and heat the water pretty much the same as an ICE generates heat as a by product of combustion the EV heater heat is a by product of the motor being used - so on extended runs no additional energy or downturn in the motor efficiency is required to generate heat which provides that theoretical extra range.