M3P: I'm done with the stock Pirellis. Where next?

[Stinkyfeet]

G'day folks, so my MY'21 Performance needs new tires. My stock Pirelli P0s lasted barely 14k miles, and I'm not even an aggressive driver (erm, mostly)! So what's next?

Let's see. I'm in the SF bay area, and car is unlikely to see snow. In order of importance for what I'd be looking for: Tire offers some rim protection. Tread wear. Comfort. Road noise. Efficiency.

So based on the above I'm thinking:
* Michelin Pilot Sport instead of the P0 [This seems to be a no brainer!]
* 245/35/ZR20 instead of the stock 235/35/ZR20 [Tough. I won't get T0 tires in this dimension, also efficiency may be lower, but the tire will sit better on the rims?]
* The Pilot Sport all-season 4 rather than the Pilot Sport 4. [Contentious. Better tread wear for nominal loss in grip, but is this also likely to be bumpier/noisier/less efficient?]

An honest to self answer is I'm really asking to be downsized to the 19", but wife likes the 20's, and TBH, I don't feel like ponying up an additional 2.5K for rims.

Argh, this is getting harder than buying the car in the first place! What does the wisdom of the internet recommend?

-a.

 

[Mr X]

Pilot Sport All Season 4's. Feels just like PS4S's and they'll last longer. Less noisy and slightly more efficient.


Michelin has a 45K warranty as well. No brainer.


My 19" PS4S's lasted only 17,149 miles on my SR+. Not getting them again. Had a 30k warranty and got a pro rata discount on the all seasons for $700.


Would never get Pirelli's.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Consider 255's. See an example here.

 

[gearchruncher]

My stock Pirelli P0s lasted barely 14k miles, and I'm not even an aggressive driver (erm, mostly)! So what's next?

I'd say you either are an aggressive driver, or you should get your alignment checked before you replace tires.

TBH, I don't feel like ponying up an additional 2.5K for rims.

You can get all sorts of great flow formed 19" wheels for $1K, which are better than the cast stock wheels.

245/35/ZR20 instead of the stock 235/35/ZR20 [Tough. I won't get T0 tires in this dimension, also efficiency may be lower, but the tire will sit better on the rims?]

If you care about range, you need to stay with the narrower tires. If you care more about grip, then the 4S is a better starting point.

 

[tm1v2]

For what it's worth ~ 15k miles out of 300-ish TW max performance tires on a 4000+ lbs, 400+ hp Tesla is about right in my experience with our S P85, without any real hard driving. (Majority of miles driven by wife, and I basically never drove that car hard...it's a big soft cruiser, just isn't a car to shred up turns with.)

245/35/R21 (very low profile, equivalent to Model 3 on 20") seemed to wear quicker than 245/45R19 (taller profile, equivalent to Model 3 on 18"). Though we never ran the same exact tire across both wheel sizes, because the Michelin we ran on the 21s (PS2 I think) didn't come in the right size for Model S 19s.

Obviously YMMV! Since our S is a big soft family car we eventually switched it less-grippy, lower-treadwear tires. We went as far opposite as the MXM4 (if I recall correctly), which honestly I hated, and even my wife felt like they could use more grip. Now we're running some Conti all-seasons on it that grip much better than the MXM4 and don't feel so mushy. Wife and I both like them more. They're not as high performing as 300 TW summer tires of course, but for how we drive the Model S they're good, and should last longer. They're not quite as quiet or mushy smooth as the MXM4 though!

@Stinkyfeet I'm not recommending these particular Conti all-seasons to you because they don't exactly match your stated goals. To be honest the MXM4 seems like a perfect match for what you listed. Treadwear, soft comfort, low noise, efficiency...that's exactly what the MXM4 is good for. What it's NOT good for is grip or road feel! That said as someone who bought an M3P you might regret the MXM4...I would steer you towards a UHP all-season like the AS4 instead. Or maybe the PS4 (different tire from the PS4S!) or its upcoming replacement the PS5 (ETA March per Michelin press announcement), which should split the difference between AS4 and PS4S (in terms of treadwear and grip/performance).

(I'm keeping our M3P on 300 TW "max performance" summer tires, now downsized to 245/45R18 on 18x8.5" wheels. If they need replacing every 15k miles that's just the cost of performance. For snow, which it won't see this winter, I'll get separate wheels+tires.)

 

[tm1v2]

Oh and I 100% agree with @Gauss Guzzler on using 255s on the 9" wide Uberturbines! Both 255 and 245 are recommended for 9" wide wheels, and I always prefer the slightly wider option, e.g. I run 245s on 8.5" wide wheels (where recommended tire widths are 245 or 235).

Plus 255/35R20 gets you slightly more sidewall, while still fitting just fine (per forum knowledge), which seems very useful on the Uberturbines!

My *real* recommendation is to downsize an M3P to 18s, which as @gearchruncher said you can do for $250/wheel for basic flow formed 18x8.5" wheels. They will pay for themselves in cheaper tires vs 20", and you will get better rim protection, better ride quality, *and* better handling (thanks to lower weight) all at the same time! (Assuming same/equivalent tire - obviously if you put MXM4 on them you'll have a major handling downgrade.) I'm not kidding when I say my M3P handles better on 18s than it did on the Uberturbines, I was surprised how much I could feel the weight difference through the steering wheel.

I spent $500/wheel on forged 18s , but I bet any decent flow formed cast 18x8.5" wheels would give most of the same subjective benefit.

Lastly 18" seems to result in more efficient setup, all else being equal (same tires, same width, etc). I believe (just a guess / intuition) that taller sidewall is generally more aero than big wheels, helping cruising efficiency, and 18" generally results in a lower total wheel+tire weight which should help start/stop efficiency. Of course the tire you choose matters a lot too.

On the flip side...I'll be the first to say the Uberturbines look awesome. I don't blame your wife for wanting to continue with them. For our roads and driving they just weren't practical.

 

[gtmotor]

I decided to take a "risk" and went with some cheaper all seasons. They are Toyo Proxes Sport A/S in the factory size (235/35r20).

I'm thoroughly impressed with them. At $169/ea I was wondering if this was going to be a case of getting what I paid for... But it was quite the opposite. I feel like these tires are an amazing value for what they are. I haven't had them on long enough to give accurate efficiency #s but they are plenty grippy and seem quieter than the stock Pirellis

 

[Sam1]

* 245/35/ZR20 instead of the stock 235/35/ZR20 [Tough. I won't get T0 tires in this dimension, also efficiency may be lower, but the tire will sit better on the rims?]

The 235/35/20 T0 PS4S has more tread width than the 245/35/20 PS4S non-T0.

Also, you don't need expensive wheels if going to a 19". These are forged and only $1300. Tire price is the best thing about these, I only paid $600 for a set of Michelin pilot super sports that are on there now. Have a set of track tires that were only $500. Compared to the $1300 for the PS4S on the OEM wheels.

 

[gearchruncher]

These are forged and only $1300. Tire price is the best thing about these, I only paid $600 for a set of Michelin pilot super sports that are on there now. Have a set of track tires that were only $500. Compared to the $1300 for the PS4S on the OEM wheels.

FULL forged for $1300? Where?
PSS's for $150 each? Where? I don't think anyone has stocked PSS in 245/40R19 for years and when they did they were $250+ each.

 

[Sam1]

FULL forged for $1300? Where?
PSS's for $150 each? Where? I don't think anyone has stocked PSS in 245/40R19 for years and when they did they were $250+ each.

Wheels from Jova, I'll DM you the tire source.

 

[Lashlee]

I run a 255/35/20 on my M3P and feel its the size that should've been on the car at delivery. Like someone else noted, slightly wider with a hair more sidewall. I can't comment on the PS4 or PS4S, the DWS06 fits just fine!

 

[Stinkyfeet]

Lots of awesome suggestions, thank you! What caught me by surprise is that almost all folks who have experimented with non T0 designated tires are happy with their decisions, so seems the foam liner doesn't add a whole lot of noise suppression?!

Thanks for all the suggestions on the 255 tire spec, but it seems 255/35/20 PSAS4 is a definite no-go: Aftermarket Wheels on Model 3. Seems PS4S is a guaranteed fit (and the DWS06s), but I couldn't be sure of the PS4 (non-S). Anyone running PS4s with 255?

 

[Sam1]

Lots of awesome suggestions, thank you! What caught me by surprise is that almost all folks who have experimented with non T0 designated tires are happy with their decisions, so seems the foam liner doesn't add a whole lot of noise suppression?!

Tested: Do Acoustically Insulated Tires Really Hush Road Noise?

We put acoustically insulated tires to the test—does the foam inside really make the experience more peaceful? Read more at Car and Driver

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

That 255/35/20 PSAS4 doesn't look too bad to me. A few minutes with a grinder and a few miles of tire wear should fix it right up.

 

[tm1v2]

Something I noticed recently: The 320 TW PS4 has a lower 20k mile tread warranty than the 300 TW PS4S with 30k mile tread warranty!

That seems backwards and I'm not sure what to make of it. I don't know if Michelin actually honors these tread warranties on a Tesla. From our experience with our Model S P85 I would be shocked if the PS4S could last 30k miles on a Tesla performance model. Even getting 20k miles before reaching 2/32" would be pretty surprising to me. We don't have enough miles on our M3P yet to gauge its tire wear characteristics though.

With this treadwear warranty difference I'm at a loss for finding any reason to prefer the PS4. Well, besides the Tesla-spec foam. PS5 is a wildcard of course but not available yet.

 

[Sam1]

Something I noticed recently: The 320 TW PS4 has a lower 20k mile tread warranty than the 300 TW PS4S with 30k mile tread warranty!

That seems backwards and I'm not sure what to make of it. I don't know if Michelin actually honors these tread warranties on a Tesla. From our experience with our Model S P85 I would be shocked if the PS4S could last 30k miles on a Tesla performance model. Even getting 20k miles before reaching 2/32" would be pretty surprising to me. We don't have enough miles on our M3P yet to gauge its tire wear characteristics though.

With this treadwear warranty difference I'm at a loss for finding any reason to prefer the PS4. Well, besides the Tesla-spec foam. PS5 is a wildcard of course but not available yet.

kinda curious now myself. I gauged the hardness of my 18" PS4S but never did the T0 20". Will pull them off the shelf sometime this week and check. Guessing maybe the lower mileage warranty is because they know pretty much the T0 is going on a heavy and torque(y) EV, which pretty much annihilates tires and the non-T0 is going on vehicles that are 500-700 pounds lighter.

 

[ArchEtech]

If you live where there is snow, get winter wheels and tires. Save your stock wheels from damage. Winter specific tires are way better than any all season. If snow and ice is fairly rare or at least not several month of the year, I’d probably run the pilot all season myself.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Consider 255's.

Oh and I 100% agree with @Gauss Guzzler on using 255s on the 9" wide Uberturbines! Both 255 and 245 are recommended for 9" wide wheels, and I always prefer the slightly wider option, e.g. I run 245s on 8.5" wide wheels (where recommended tire widths are 245 or 235).

I run a 255/35/20 on my M3P and feel its the size that should've been on the car at delivery. Like someone else noted, slightly wider with a hair more sidewall. I can't comment on the PS4 or PS4S, the DWS06 fits just fine!

I keep telling myself I'm going to do this, just store the 235s, swap out to the 255/35, maybe toss my 5mm spacers on the rear, and use my super nice lugs I got like 6 months ago ...

 

[tm1v2]

I keep telling myself I'm going to do this, just store the 235s, swap out to the 255/35, maybe toss my 5mm spacers on the rear, and use my super nice lugs I got like 6 months ago ...

@MaskedRacerX If you're still on the OE Pirelli PZ4, ditch them...I felt they were a little lacking from the beginning, but I didn't realize how inferior they were until I switched to something better!

 

[MaskedRacerX]

@MaskedRacerX If you're still on the OE Pirelli PZ4, ditch them...I felt they were a little lacking from the beginning, but I didn't realize how inferior they were until I switched to something better!

Yes I am


Side note:

I don't think I realized the wheel/tire setup on the Model Y Performance is much beefier vs. the M3P.

We've got 20x9 wheels with 235/35-20 on all four corners, they've got 21x9.5 (f), 21x10.5 (r), with a 255/35 and a 275/35 ! I was parked next to one at a charging location in Orlando last week, I took a good look (then looked it up).

Funny enough, the 255 is still stretched since they went up another 0.5" from the M3P wheels.