Major Yoke concerns from Consumer Reports initial review

[_Redshift_]

If the yoke is dangerous then it follows that it will cause accidents. Where are they?

Whats the sample size, my dear fellow? A hundred? Thousand? You cannot ask such a question when it’s this early.

Nevermind, the question itself is not relevant. The question should be this:

What is the problem the yoke is trying to solve?

Is it better than the existing solution?

I think you know and I know the answer to both.

 

[Unclepaul]

Believe this is simply a transition period, when people need to change from something they are used to. It will take a while for this new steering to improve to the point where the transition will be easier.
Transportation moved from horses to carriages, to bicycling, to horseless carriages with tillers, to steering wheels, to electric starting, to power steering, to variable power steering ratios, to all wheel steering, to smaller wheels, to necker knobs, to steering with your knees, to putting on weights to "fool" the sensors to the current yoke.
People have proven capable to making all these adjustments. I imagine that someday steering wheels/yokes will be replaced by joysticks, then eliminated completely.

 

[drdonger]

Whats the sample size, my dear fellow? A hundred? Thousand? You cannot ask such a question when it’s this early.

Nevermind, the question itself is not relevant. The question should be this:

What is the problem the yoke is trying to solve?

Is it better than the existing solution?

I think you know and I know the answer to both.

I think it helps with visibility and also helps/forces people to hold the wheel at 9 and 3, where you are supposed to. I love how everyone complains about all the buttons on the wheels and not being able to remember them. Have you guys seen an f1 steering wheel? There are dozens of buttons and they either remember them or briefly look down, while going 150 mph. You're telling me people can't learn where turn signal and windshield wiper buttons are? Get a a different car if you are that dumb.

 

[Boza]

I think it helps with visibility and also helps/forces people to hold the wheel at 9 and 3, where you are supposed to. I love how everyone complains about all the buttons on the wheels and not being able to remember them. Have you guys seen an f1 steering wheel? There are dozens of buttons and they either remember them or briefly look down, while going 150 mph. You're telling me people can't learn where turn signal and windshield wiper buttons are? Get a a different car if you are that dumb.

Someone made the same F1 argument in another tread. F1 yoke is very much different than the Tesla yoke - because of the 1/2 turn buttons do not change positions relative to the hands and they are physical buttons. Also, have you seen F1 doing U-turn, 3 way turn or driving kids to school?

 

[drdonger]

Someone made the same F1 argument in another tread. F1 yoke is very much different than the Tesla yoke - because of the 1/2 turn buttons do not change positions relative to the hands and they are physical buttons. Also, have you seen F1 doing U-turn, 3 way turn or driving kids to school?

You mentioned this in the other thread. The Tesla buttons don't change positions either. They are in the same spot everytime you drive. People can't remember where they are after the third time driving? It isn't rocket science. F1 drivers have like 20+ buttons and you guys can't remember like 5? U-turns and 3 pt turns are not difficult at all, you can hand over hand or one hand it. Listening to people struggle so much to remember a few buttons or turn a steering wheel is hilarious. I feel like if people are that dumb they should just get a simpler car to drive.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2017-Mercedes-F1-car-steering-wheel.jpg

 

[Dan D.]

Turning stalks are not the only design, but they work fine. A left foot pedal would work, a stationary center ring on the wheel/yoke with non-rotating buttons, lots of possible designs.

The current yoke has flat plastic areas for buttons. That's poor design. Testers report that they don't always engage with every tap, they have to be pressed just so. Oddly they also seem to accidentally engage with a palm while turning. Real, proper size buttons are easy to press, hard to accidentally press, and generally you can feel that you've pressed them.

As to moving around, I can't even perfectly landmark my volume buttons while the wheel is turning, I doubt I'd ever be able to accurately find the yoke's flat areas to engage the turn & wipers which are far more critical. Every video I've seen on the yoke where the driver shows how easy it is to use they are driving slowly in a parking lot or doing a deliberate planned manoeuvre. I want to see rapid unplanned driving & turning at night or under stress, then we'll see if they can still find the "buttons".

 

[Boza]

You mentioned this in the other thread. The Tesla buttons don't change positions either. They are in the same spot everytime you drive. People can't remember where they are after the third time driving? It isn't rocket science. F1 drivers have like 20+ buttons and you guys can't remember like 5? U-turns and 3 pt turns are not difficult at all, you can hand over hand or one hand it. Listening to people struggle so much to remember a few buttons or turn a steering wheel is hilarious. I feel like if people are that dumb they should just get a simpler car to drive.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2017-Mercedes-F1-car-steering-wheel.jpg

Humans are used to coordinate system relative to their body. It takes time to transition that coordinate system - not much but enough to cause accident when we talk about critical functionality. Yes, the buttons do not move relative to the yoke/wheel but they constantly move relative to the driver, especially, during city driving.

Perform an experiment. Get a wheel or a yoke, draw a few spots on it. Then close your eyes, turn the wheel/yoke while moving your hands around it. While still keeping your eyes closed, have a friend name a spot and you try to touch it within 300ms (handicapped version; ideally it should be less than 100ms). Publish the results. Anything below 100% is a failure.

BTW: In addition to limited turning of the F1 yoke, we are talking about super-humans in F1, not middle-aged people driving kids to soccer practice

 

[_Redshift_]

I think it helps with visibility and also helps/forces people to hold the wheel at 9 and 3, where you are supposed to. I love how everyone complains about all the buttons on the wheels and not being able to remember them. Have you guys seen an f1 steering wheel? There are dozens of buttons and they either remember them or briefly look down, while going 150 mph. You're telling me people can't learn where turn signal and windshield wiper buttons are? Get a a different car if you are that dumb.

So, people who complain about the steering wheel are dumb?

Don‘t be so presumptuous. F1 driving and drivers are way different than making 3 point turns often in everyday driving.

Talk about being dumb.

 

[lbowroom]

Turning stalks are not the only design, but they work fine. A left foot pedal would work, a stationary center ring on the wheel/yoke with non-rotating buttons, lots of possible designs.

The current yoke has flat plastic areas for buttons. That's poor design. Testers report that they don't always engage with every tap, they have to be pressed just so. Oddly they also seem to accidentally engage with a palm while turning. Real, proper size buttons are easy to press, hard to accidentally press, and generally you can feel that you've pressed them.

As to moving around, I can't even perfectly landmark my volume buttons while the wheel is turning, I doubt I'd ever be able to accurately find the yoke's flat areas to engage the turn & wipers which are far more critical. Every video I've seen on the yoke where the driver shows how easy it is to use they are driving slowly in a parking lot or doing a deliberate planned manoeuvre. I want to see rapid unplanned driving & turning at night or under stress, then we'll see if they can still find the "buttons".

Please continue to report on something you’ve never touched

 

[Big Dog]

not sure if anyone saw teh review in teh WSJ of the BMW iX. Just posting Dan Neil's comment about their interior and steering wheel:

BMW’s interior designers elected to use a fair number of hard buttons as well, available but discreetly arranged in a way the company calls “shy tech.” But one selector is practically an exhibitionist: the cut-glass rotary controller in the floating center console, part of the Executive Package. It is among the details that offer warmth and tactility to shoppers seeking an alternative to Teslas’ Vulcan minimalism.

Note to Tesla: the iX’s hexagonally shaped steering wheel is the yoke done right.

If anyone is driving by a Bimmer dealer, might be worth checking it out...

BMW iX: An Electric Crossover Targeting Mainstream SUV Buyers

Part of BMW’s new portfolio of electrified vehicles, the iX XDrive50 is aimed at the global audience for midsize SUVs. Dan Neil runs down the pros and cons.

www.wsj.com

 

[drdonger]

So, people who complain about the steering wheel are dumb?

Don‘t be so presumptuous. F1 driving and drivers are way different than making 3 point turns often in everyday driving.

Talk about being dumb.

I was referring to the buttons and the idiots that can’t remember where the 5 buttons on the wheel are; or which turn signals are which.

 

[Boza]

I was referring to the buttons and the idiots that can’t remember where the 5 buttons on the wheel are; or which turn signals are which.

Try to find the directional signals, without looking, while navigating a roundabout. Or while making U-turn try to find the horn.

The issue is not whether the yoke is good or bad. The issue is that it is the only option while there is a group of people who have valid arguments about safety and usability. If you love it the way it is - fine. But for a cohort of customers that is a deal breaker for otherwise a really nice car. Unfortunately, alternatives (at the moment) do not really exist and that creates resentment. “The worst foe is your ex-friend”. Tesla could have solved that by simply offering the pre-facelift steering wheel. They could have probably charged extra for it
I have a suspicion that the yoke, buttons, etc. is part of the gamification of driving that Tesla is pushing to support their FSD strategy. If the car drives itself and could take over in dangerous situations all those concerns about safety and usability are mute.

 

[4SUPER9]

All the buttons, for better or worse (depending on your point of view) are all no big deal. Roundabouts, U turns, whatever. Important, yes, but not critical. I have played with the yoke already, and personally have no major issue. I can see why others would.
The horn, however, seems to be the one near commonality amongst most of us. That is the only button that should, and by its only legally defined proper use, must be available on an urgent basis, and yet cannot be in many scenarios when the yoke is turned. Unless, of course, you are utterly focused on the yoke, which, I hope, would never be the case in an emergency.
Too bad, as this has an easy solution that does not violate Elon’s vision.

 

[Greg29]

You mentioned this in the other thread. The Tesla buttons don't change positions either. They are in the same spot everytime you drive. People can't remember where they are after the third time driving? It isn't rocket science. F1 drivers have like 20+ buttons and you guys can't remember like 5? U-turns and 3 pt turns are not difficult at all, you can hand over hand or one hand it. Listening to people struggle so much to remember a few buttons or turn a steering wheel is hilarious. I feel like if people are that dumb they should just get a simpler car to drive.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2017-Mercedes-F1-car-steering-wheel.jpg

And this is why the resale market for these cars in 3 years will be very challenging. First adopters who waited 3 months to a year for their cars are willing to invest the time to "learn" how to use these features that have zero immediate benefits. Car shoppers in 3 years will have great options that are "simpler to drive".

 

[lbowroom]

And this is why the resale market for these cars in 3 years will be very challenging. First adopters who waited 3 months to a year for their cars are willing to invest the time to "learn" how to use these features that have zero immediate benefits. Car shoppers in 3 years will have great options that are "simpler to drive".

3 years ago we were told that the model 3 would have no resale value because of the center touch screen. “Down and to the right” was the catchphrase then. It was called unsafe. There were supposed to be legacy automakers competition that would kill that “solution to a problem that didn’t exist”

Side note. Within a few months there will be round wheel and stalks available for the S for those that really want it.

No need to worry about future resale value.

 

[nilesborg]

I love how the lame duck yoke debate continues... even within the Tesla community.

Just my $0.02 after using it everyday for 3 months including three 1000mi road trips on our 2021 MS LR - it's awesome.

I feel like folks who haven't used it at all should not comment on it at all. And folks who haven't used it for at least a few hundred miles shouldn't act like an engineering or safety expert, and probably should also not comment on it, at all. Annoying noise commentary problem solved.

I think the yoke rules, looking forward to it in the Model X we have on reserve...