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MAR2023: My Experience Driving 1,367mi Down Into California and Back

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Just drove down into CA and back home on a road trip with my family of five.
- Drove 1,367mi total.
- Used TESLA Superchargers mostly.
- Average TESLA Supercharger price: $0.40/kWh (MIN: $0.34/kWh | MAX: $0.48/kWh)
NOTE: I pay an average of $0.08353/kWh to charge at home, so paying $0.48/kWh is an abomination!!!
- Longest TESLA Supercharger Charge Time*: 50min (Est.) @ 250kW
- Longest non-Supercharger Charge Time*: 2.5hrs @ 8kW (32A)
- Spent $176.96 total on charging**.
- Total trip cost ICE equivalent (24mpg): $209.15 (Est. @ $3.67/gal)

* Charging sessions where we actively sat and waited, not counting charging passively at the hotel, etc.
** Charged FREE overnight at one hotel and paid a flat $10.00 twice to slow charge at an RV park in BFE.

Takeaways...

We have driven this trip and this specific route many times over the years, and it normally takes about 10.5hrs (in our ICE vehicle @ 24mpg) including stops for fuel and restroom breaks; plus, we lose 1hr going to CA and gain 1hr coming home (due to the time change). Heading to CA in our TESLA Model Y took us 15.5hrs, including time spent charging and restroom breaks, etc. There was substantial range anxiety on the way to CA, especially, because the normal route we would take was beyond the actual range of our TESLA (but not beyond the rated range). Our Model Y is rated at 321mi of range, but our first TESLA Supercharger was 254mi from our home (we left our home with 100% SOC). After much stress, we found an RV park in BFE (about 45min from the first TESLA Supercharger along our route) that allowed us to charge using my NIMA 14-50 TESLA Mobile Connector @ 8kW (32A) for a flat $10.00. Our SOC was very low, so we charged up there to about 15% SOC before heading on to the TESLA Supercharger, but by the time we arrived at that first TESLA Supercharger 45min away, we had -4% SOC. (Not kidding! NEGATIVE 4% SOC!!!) Not only did this stress us out immensely (we thought we weren't going to make it), but I feared that going below 0% may have damaged our battery pack. (It still may have damaged it and we don't even know it!) While at that first TESLA Supercharger along our route, we charged 81kWh in about 35-45min. My Model Y supposedly only has a battery pack that is 78.3kWh, so explain that one to me!

Why didn't you just enter your destination and follow the on-screen GPS and charge accordingly, you ask???? Well, because we always go that route, for one thing. Plus, the route that the car wanted us to follow was going to take us 2hrs in the wrong direction, which made no sense to me. I track my normal TESLA driving efficiency using the TezLab app, so I figured that I should be able to travel the 254mi from a 100% SOC if I go slower (I normally speed, going 10-15mi over the speed limit). I then drove 55mph and 60mph the whole way until our first charge, which seemed to help little or not at all. Tractor trailers were getting mad at me, passing me ASAP along the two lane highway.

Once we were near civilization and were able to use ALL TESLA Superchargers, it was a breeze and wasn't stressful at all, although it definitely added time to our drives. We knew we could charge for $10 at that RV park along our normal route on the way back, so that is what we did. Unfortunately, I did not know that you cannot install a software update while charging (or while driving) the TESLA, so shortly after I began charging @ 8kW (32A) at the RV park, I started the software installation, which promptly cut off my charging session, which fact I did not realize until about 25min into the install, which installation took about 35min total. We made sure to charge up to 100% SOC at that last TESLA Supercharger before heading to that RV park toward home. (This was the first TESLA Supercharger on our way to CA.) We had a 78% SOC when we arrived at the RV park, and we charged up to 95% SOC before heading on for home. We had 3% SOC when we arrived home. It was MUCH less stressful driving and charging on the way home than it was on the way to CA, but it still was not stress-free.

We learned the hard way on the drive home (after seeing the "red steering wheel of death" about 3x) that if you manually exceed the MAX speed TESLA allows for auto-steer (85mph), then that feature will be disabled for the rest of the drive. So, we kept having to pull over while driving on a two-lane highway; put the TESLA in PARK; open the driver door briefly; and then pull back out onto the highway to regain the use of this feature. Maybe I'm spoiled, but driving for hours and hours on a two-lane highway WITHOUT auto-steer sucks! (NOTE: Our HONDA Odyssey has lane keeping, which works well on a road trip, although it is not as good as TESLA's Autopilot.) We also experienced several instances of phantom braking that was most unpleasant. Our HONDA Odyssey has never once done this, and it has adaptive cruise control. It seems like Autopilot gets scared as the TESLA approaches the top of a ridge in the road.

Also, while we love how much storage our Model Y has, it really makes things fairly tight, as some of the rear storage space is deceptive and cannot fully be utilized while allowing the rear lift gate to latch shut. You must leave about a 6-8in gap between where the rear lift gate appears to close and your luggage or cooler, or else the rear lift gate will not close. I also did everything I could to avoid placing stored items on top of the rear shelf, but it could not be avoided on the way home, as we purchased some bags of merchandise. The frunk was fully utilized and so was the lower storage area below the rear cargo space (as well as the rear cargo space).

One other strange thing that occurred is that twice while I was charging at a 250kW TESLA Supercharger, steam or smoke started to rise from the passenger side, seemingly from underneath the hood of the car (under the frunk). This only lasted about 30sec or less, and both times it happened while it was colder and raining outside (maybe 47°F). Because it was wet out, it could have been steam from the thermal realities of Supercharging, or it could have been smoke. There were also a lot of clicks and a few thud noises that occurred while I was Supercharging.

I have estimated (pretty accurately, I might add) that we saved about $32 driving the Model Y on our road trip, as opposed to our ICE minivan that gets 24mpg and is much larger and more comfortable for the passengers. Was it worth it? I am unconvinced, even though I love driving my Model Y. However, my family all said that they wished we had taken the minivan.

I think the main takeaway is that until charging can be done even more quickly than it is today and until fast-charging locations are more prevalent than gas stations are today, then road trips in an EV for periods longer than 4-6hrs are not worth it, IMO. We would normally drive this route with a full tank of gas when leaving home and would have to stop once to fill up along the way, which is also our main potty break and food stop. This would add about 30min to our drive. Until EV's can do likewise, I am not sure that it makes sense to drive an EV on such a long road trip instead of an ICE vehicle. We hope to get a CyberTruck soon, but no one really knows how large and comfortable (or not) that EV will be. TESLA doesn't really make any large/r sized vehicles. The Model X is smaller than our HONDA Odyssey, which minivan is reasonably comfortable on a long road trip. (We drove it about 5,000mi on a 2.5wk road trip last summer and we were decently comfortable.) I could not imagine driving our Model Y on the same 5,000mi road trip. Also, I am utterly disappointed with the lack of savings from charging while driving our TESLA Model Y on road trips. My home electricity price per kWh is amazing, but I think it's ridiculous that I should have to pay 5x that price OR MORE to charge up on a road trip. That's the whole point of owning an EV! I've already paid damn near double to purchase this vehicle, so I should be getting more savings over ICE than a mere 15% at the Superchargers! (NOTE: My state also charges an additional $154 per year for my TESLA auto registration because it's an EV and I don't pay the fuel tax.)


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Thank you for your trip report. I am on a road trip from southern to northern Calif in the Y. The range is not accurate at all so abit nervous but learning what this car is all about.
I've done this (last time was my last trip before lockdown in 2020, as part of a trip from San Jose to Phoenix and back). I would say to trust your in-car navigation. It knows your status, and knows where the Superchargers are. I prefer 101 as a road in general, but 5 is quicker and has a nice supercharger in Kettleman City
 
Most of the Intermountain West and Plains away from the cities is a tough spot for any EV. I think it will be even worse towing and doing the off-road and other recreational things people do in rural areas. (I am in far northern Maine, in Aroostook County myself.) It will be interesting to see, as metro area car and truck buyers move to EVs, causing car makers to switch over all their models, how many, if any, ICE models will remain, whether by govt. edict or free market. It could be that rural buyers find that they become such a small part of the light vehicle market needing ICE that they no longer get served. Time will tell.
 
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I use the TezLab app. My drives are often around 67% efficiency. I am not Mario Andretti, but I don’t drive like “grandma” either. That EPA rated range is a joke. They must be driving the vehicle at 25mph when testing for that like grandma behind the wheel. It’s not at all accurate.
How fast do you drive? Which model?

I find I can get 242 Wh/mi (vs 228 in car rated) even on highway driving around 70 mph, with a 3 long range.

The 3 vs Y difference is greater on highway than it seems, and the 18" aero wheels help substantially.
 
Looks like there is a Shell Recharge at Quinn River Station. If you have CCS charging capability, you can buy the adapter for about 200 bucks and this will make your trip seamless.

Also EV key benefit isn't going to save you on roadtrips. You do best charging at home. If you must pay to charge at supercharger you are splitting the savings with Elon and Co. Its just a simple fact.
 
This may sound harsh and critical, but it may be worth it for the future readers that might be disuaded from buying a Tesla based on your less than objective criticism:
Our Model Y is rated at 321mi of range, but our first TESLA Supercharger was 254mi from our home (we left our home with 100% SOC).
I'm amazed that you decided to go on a road trip with the nearest Supercharger 254 miles away. Any amount of research would have shown you that MY does not get anywhere close to 321 miles of range on the highway. That was quite a gamble you did, and involving your whole family.
After much stress, we found an RV park in BFE (about 45min from the first TESLA Supercharger along our route) that allowed us to charge using my NIMA 14-50 TESLA Mobile Connector @ 8kW (32A) for a flat $10.00.
Relying on level 2 charging for a road trip... Bad idea.
I feared that going below 0% may have damaged our battery pack. (It still may have damaged it and we don't even know it!) While at that first TESLA Supercharger along our route, we charged 81kWh in about 35-45min. My Model Y supposedly only has a battery pack that is 78.3kWh, so explain that one to me!
The battery is 82 kWh with approximately 78 usable. Tesla allows approximately 3 kWh buffer.
I figured that I should be able to travel the 254mi from a 100% SOC if I go slower (I normally speed, going 10-15mi over the speed limit).
You should do less figuring and more relying on a mountain of information such as this forum, YouTube, etc., since there are people who've done this before.

Furthermore, the car computer probability told you that you could not make it there in 1 shot.
Once we were near civilization and were able to use ALL TESLA Superchargers, it was a breeze and wasn't stressful at all,
Tesla is a civilized car and meant to be used in civilization. If you live too far from the civilization, then perhaps EV/Tesla is not the right car for you at this stage.
Also, while we love how much storage our Model Y has, it really makes things fairly tight, as some of the rear storage space is deceptive and cannot fully be utilized while allowing the rear lift gate to latch shut. You must leave about a 6-8in gap between where the rear lift gate appears to close and your luggage or cooler, or else the rear lift gate will not close.
It is what it is. Is this meant to be a ding on Model Y?
I think the main takeaway is that until charging can be done even more quickly than it is today and until fast-charging locations are more prevalent than gas stations are today, then road trips in an EV for periods longer than 4-6hrs are not worth it, IMO.
The main takeaway is to plan properly given the limited charging infrastructure and to rely on reliable sources of information before you go.
My home electricity price per kWh is amazing, but I think it's ridiculous that I should have to pay 5x that price OR MORE to charge up on a road trip. That's the whole point of owning an EV! I've already paid damn near double to purchase this vehicle, so I should be getting more savings over ICE than a mere 15% at the Superchargers!
Entitled much? The cost is based on what the market can bare. That's also how you get more Superchargers that we so desperately need/want.
That's the whole point of owning an EV!
I would argue that is not the whole point. There are many many benefits of owning an EV or a Tesla compared to an ICEV, but cost and road tripping are unfortunately not it.

To contrast my recent EV road trip experience with yours:
I just completed an 1,800 mile family (wife 2 kids) road trip in the Midwest in our M3LR. We had Superchargers available every 50-100 miles and I still did crazy amount of planning. The total charging time on the one-way 780 mile trip added about 1.25-1.5 hr to our previous ICE time on the same trip. This was exact what the ABPR and my manual calculations estimated. I pretty much had AP set at 85 the entire time (as road conditions permit) and had to charge 4-5 times each way. I'm not sure if this is the fastest way, but it's how I drove the ICE car, except without the benefit of AP.

I wanted to do it in the M3 for the experience. The cost was equivalent to approximately 32.7 mpg (assuming $3.4/gal average).
The AP/FSD made the 13 hr drive a lot less taxing, but I'm not sure it compensates for the extra "planning," range anxiety and trip time.

If I had to do it again, it's probably a 51:49 in favor of ICE. That's mostly due to time savings and versatility of where to stop for fuel and food (since most of the time you eat near the superchargers when charging).

As a daily driver, 100:0 in favor of Tesla/EV.

Thanks for reading.
 
A number of Tesla owners configure the battery gauge to display the state of the battery in % rather than miles. There are two reasons...1) it's actually impossible to display a realistic number of miles available (this doesn't take into account wind, elevation changes, payload, etc.). 2) battery levels in the nav system, trip planner, and energy graph are all expressed in %, so if you're using any of those you're probably thinking of your battery charge in % anyway. That's worked well for me over the past (almost) 8 years.

Bruce.
I don’t agree that it’s impossible to calculate. The GPS does it when you enter a destination, so why can’t the SOC be accurately updated based on your destination entered into the GPS, especially on road trips?
 
How fast do you drive? Which model?

I find I can get 242 Wh/mi (vs 228 in car rated) even on highway driving around 70 mph, with a 3 long range.

The 3 vs Y difference is greater on highway than it seems, and the 18" aero wheels help substantially.
I own a 2023 Model Y (LR/AWD). I zip around, tend to accelerate more quickly from a stop but don’t excessively speed. Got pulled over a couple weeks ago but no ticket, so I’ve slowed it down a bit.
 
This may sound harsh and critical, but it may be worth it for the future readers that might be disuaded from buying a Tesla based on your less than objective criticism:

I'm amazed that you decided to go on a road trip with the nearest Supercharger 254 miles away. Any amount of research would have shown you that MY does not get anywhere close to 321 miles of range on the highway. That was quite a gamble you did, and involving your whole family.

Relying on level 2 charging for a road trip... Bad idea.

The battery is 82 kWh with approximately 78 usable. Tesla allows approximately 3 kWh buffer.

You should do less figuring and more relying on a mountain of information such as this forum, YouTube, etc., since there are people who've done this before.

Furthermore, the car computer probability told you that you could not make it there in 1 shot.

Tesla is a civilized car and meant to be used in civilization. If you live too far from the civilization, then perhaps EV/Tesla is not the right car for you at this stage.

It is what it is. Is this meant to be a ding on Model Y?

The main takeaway is to plan properly given the limited charging infrastructure and to rely on reliable sources of information before you go.

Entitled much? The cost is based on what the market can bare. That's also how you get more Superchargers that we so desperately need/want.

I would argue that is not the whole point. There are many many benefits of owning an EV or a Tesla compared to an ICEV, but cost and road tripping are unfortunately not it.

To contrast my recent EV road trip experience with yours:
I just completed an 1,800 mile family (wife 2 kids) road trip in the Midwest in our M3LR. We had Superchargers available every 50-100 miles and I still did crazy amount of planning. The total charging time on the one-way 780 mile trip added about 1.25-1.5 hr to our previous ICE time on the same trip. This was exact what the ABPR and my manual calculations estimated. I pretty much had AP set at 85 the entire time (as road conditions permit) and had to charge 4-5 times each way. I'm not sure if this is the fastest way, but it's how I drove the ICE car, except without the benefit of AP.

I wanted to do it in the M3 for the experience. The cost was equivalent to approximately 32.7 mpg (assuming $3.4/gal average).
The AP/FSD made the 13 hr drive a lot less taxing, but I'm not sure it compensates for the extra "planning," range anxiety and trip time.

If I had to do it again, it's probably a 51:49 in favor of ICE. That's mostly due to time savings and versatility of where to stop for fuel and food (since most of the time you eat near the superchargers when charging).

As a daily driver, 100:0 in favor of Tesla/EV.

Thanks for reading.
Judge much? Thank you for your “objective” (not-so-objective) “analysis” of MY analysis of MY road trip. Next time, I’ll be sure to place a chair in my frunk so you can join us and weigh in first-hand.
 
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I don’t agree that it’s impossible to calculate. The GPS does it when you enter a destination, so why can’t the SOC be accurately updated based on your destination entered into the GPS, especially on road trips?

Because the car doesn’t know where you intend to go AFTER your programmed trip. Or if there’s no destination set in the Nav. Remember the battery gauge is up all the time not just when you’re driving to a Nav destination.

Bruce.
 
This may sound harsh and critical, but it may be worth it for the future readers that might be disuaded from buying a Tesla based on your less than objective criticism:

I'm amazed that you decided to go on a road trip with the nearest Supercharger 254 miles away. Any amount of research would have shown you that MY does not get anywhere close to 321 miles of range on the highway. That was quite a gamble you did, and involving your whole family.

Relying on level 2 charging for a road trip... Bad idea.

The battery is 82 kWh with approximately 78 usable. Tesla allows approximately 3 kWh buffer.

You should do less figuring and more relying on a mountain of information such as this forum, YouTube, etc., since there are people who've done this before.

Furthermore, the car computer probability told you that you could not make it there in 1 shot.

Tesla is a civilized car and meant to be used in civilization. If you live too far from the civilization, then perhaps EV/Tesla is not the right car for you at this stage.

It is what it is. Is this meant to be a ding on Model Y?

The main takeaway is to plan properly given the limited charging infrastructure and to rely on reliable sources of information before you go.

Entitled much? The cost is based on what the market can bare. That's also how you get more Superchargers that we so desperately need/want.

I would argue that is not the whole point. There are many many benefits of owning an EV or a Tesla compared to an ICEV, but cost and road tripping are unfortunately not it.

To contrast my recent EV road trip experience with yours:
I just completed an 1,800 mile family (wife 2 kids) road trip in the Midwest in our M3LR. We had Superchargers available every 50-100 miles and I still did crazy amount of planning. The total charging time on the one-way 780 mile trip added about 1.25-1.5 hr to our previous ICE time on the same trip. This was exact what the ABPR and my manual calculations estimated. I pretty much had AP set at 85 the entire time (as road conditions permit) and had to charge 4-5 times each way. I'm not sure if this is the fastest way, but it's how I drove the ICE car, except without the benefit of AP.

I wanted to do it in the M3 for the experience. The cost was equivalent to approximately 32.7 mpg (assuming $3.4/gal average).
The AP/FSD made the 13 hr drive a lot less taxing, but I'm not sure it compensates for the extra "planning," range anxiety and trip time.

If I had to do it again, it's probably a 51:49 in favor of ICE. That's mostly due to time savings and versatility of where to stop for fuel and food (since most of the time you eat near the superchargers when charging).

As a daily driver, 100:0 in favor of Tesla/EV.

Thanks for reading.
Yes it does read overly harsh and critical, lot's of good and accurate info though, when I road trip in an EV its all about the journey and not the destination, if i'm trying to get to the destination in a hurry then I take my 1/2 ton diesel truck that gets 25 mpg on the hwy and has a 500 to 600 mile bladder testing range.

I had a model 3 for 5 years and took that car on many road trips, like others have noted with AP and multiple stops we would arrive much later and less tired but due to limited space when I got my new truck in dec. 19' we took that instead on most trips, now that we have a new Y I am planning on taking it more.
 
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Judge much? Thank you for your “objective” (not-so-objective) “analysis” of MY analysis of MY road trip. Next time, I’ll be sure to place a chair in my frunk so you can join us and weigh in first-hand.
I agreed that Tesla/EV is not ideal road tripping car, especially in your circumstances.

I don't agree that the problems you ran into were unforeseen and the car is to blame.

I'm not looking to start a forum war, but expecting to get 254 miles to a nearest Supercharger at highway speeds when every available source, including ABPR and Tesla onboard computer tell you that you won't be able to make it, and then proceeding to take the whole family on the trip and almost getting stranded is on you, not a reflection on how Tesla is terrible.

You obviously read this forum, so take some advice.
 
Because the car doesn’t know where you intend to go AFTER your programmed trip. Or if there’s no destination set in the Nav. Remember the battery gauge is up all the time not just when you’re driving to a Nav destination.

Bruce.
Thanks for responding, Bruce. I’m talking about long road trips, in particular. If I enter a destination into the GPS that is well outside of my TESLA’s range, then the car should have enough available data to be able to use that predictive data (distance, wind, elevation, outside temperature, etc.) to more accurately predict my current range, wouldn’t you agree?
 
Yes it does read overly harsh and critical, lot's of good and accurate info though, when I road trip in an EV its all about the journey and not the destination, if i'm trying to get to the destination in a hurry then I take my 1/2 ton diesel truck that gets 25 mpg on the hwy and has a 500 to 600 mile bladder testing range.

I had a model 3 for 5 years and took that car on many road trips, like others have noted with AP and multiple stops we would arrive much later and less tired but due to limited space when I got my new truck in dec. 19' we took that instead on most trips, now that we have a new Y I am planning on taking it more.
I get that, and I don’t disagree. (We decided not to take the Model Y to this particular destination anymore.) This particular road trip takes about 10.5hrs, including stopping for gas once and a few potty breaks, plus a time change (shaving off 1hr on the way there; adding 1hr on the way back). It’s not that we were in a hurry as much as we just didn’t want to arrive at midnight, having left our home at 7am. Like I said, definitely some lessons learned. Now that we have done a road trip (this was our first!), we now know what the realistic range is of our Model Y. We know where we need to stop and charge.

Also, I was amazed at how much external temperature (being more optimal in CA) helps to increase range! (We took delivery Nov. 12th and have had one hell of a winter here in Idaho.)
 
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Agree with the OP. Tesla's are NOT good road trip vehicles no matter what the fan boys tell you. Much more hassle, worry, and wasted time.
On the east coast, they're fine, and that may be the difference. I did 4400 solo miles through Texas and the Southeast without any hassle or worry. Whether or not stops every couple hours for a 15 or 20 minute rest is wasted is up to you. I've done marathons of up to 16 hours in a gas car and I greatly prefer the pace imposed by EVs.
 
I get that, and I don’t disagree. (We decided not to take the Model Y to this particular destination anymore.) This particular road trip takes about 10.5hrs, including stopping for gas once and a few potty breaks, plus a time change (shaving off 1hr on the way there; adding 1hr on the way back). It’s not that we were in a hurry as much as we just didn’t want to arrive at midnight, having left our home at 7am. Like I said, definitely some lessons learned. Now that we have done a road trip (this was our first!), we now know what the realistic range is of our Model Y. We know where we need to stop and charge.

Also, I was amazed at how much external temperature (being more optimal in CA) helps to increase range! (We took delivery Nov. 12th and have had one hell of a winter here in Idaho.)
Being in CA and not really traveling in cold temps I can only go by what I have read here on the forums, Cold kills range! but here at my house when the overnight temps dip into the 40's we are all whining like spoiled children!
 
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I agreed that Tesla/EV is not ideal road tripping car, especially in your circumstances.

I don't agree that the problems you ran into were unforeseen and the car is to blame.

I'm not looking to start a forum war, but expecting to get 254 miles to a nearest Supercharger at highway speeds when every available source, including ABPR and Tesla onboard computer tell you that you won't be able to make it, and then proceeding to take the whole family on the trip and almost getting stranded is on you, not a reflection on how Tesla is terrible.

You obviously read this forum, so take some advice.
Regardless of whether it's his fault personally or not I think the larger issue here is the fake range estimates the government allows to be used.

The 330 miles of range claimed on my 23MYLR is a fake number. Just as the 371 miles on my 21MXLRP was fake.

The made up range numbers need go away.
 
On the east coast, they're fine, and that may be the difference. I did 4400 solo miles through Texas and the Southeast without any hassle or worry. Whether or not stops every couple hours for a 15 or 20 minute rest is wasted is up to you. I've done marathons of up to 16 hours in a gas car and I greatly prefer the pace imposed by EVs.
I think most respondents are not considering that I happen to live in a locale that does not have enough SC locations to accommodate convenient travel to and from CA. Like I said in my OP, the GPS told me to drive 2hrs east (in the wrong direction) when I needed to head to the southwest. It’s not like I had other reasonable options and chose to ignore them. To me, telling me to drive 2hrs the wrong way is not reasonable. There actually were two rapid charger stations along our route (I think they were Blink chargers), but I did not have the correct adapter to use them (and they even had two different charging handles!). Thankfully, my Mobile Connector with NIMA 14-50 saved us at the RV park! Did I put my family “at risk”, as some have suggested…??? I don’t think so. We have excellent roadside assistance coverage. (It’s not like I sent them that way without me.) I’m a pretty inventive little F-er, so I knew I could figure out something—which I did. Now that we’ve driven this route, we know what to expect: Will have to stop to charge 15% at the RV park until TESLA installs that much-needed SC location in McDermitt, NV. Will continue to take this route if we go again, rather than driving 2hrs the wrong way.