Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Market politics

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I predict a low turnout, Trump wins vs Biden.

Look up some of the writing by Rachel Bitecofer. She was the most accurate predictor of the midterms. She predicted something like 42 out of 47 races correctly.

Back last July she said that pick any Democrat and they will be starting with 278 EV. Here is here map:
Wason Center electoral college map

She hasn't seen any change. Her model is based on what she calls negative partisanship. A recent article:
An Unsettling New Theory: There Is No Swing Voter

A re-election of a president is always an initiative on whether the president deserves a second term. If the president is unpopular, the opposition party needs to out up someone less popular to lose. About the only Democrat who could lose this year is Hillary Clinton. The big question for me is how wide the coattails of the Democratic nominee would be. I think Bernie would probably win, but a lot of people who were right of him (about 80-90% of the electorate) would vote Republican down ticket if they voted for him to ensure his more extreme ideas didn't get implemented. With a moderate candidate people see as safe and likeable like Biden (even if many think he's losing his marbles, which I don't see, his aphasia gets worse when he's stressed or tired, but that's a speaking problem, but a cognitive problem) they might be more willing to vote Democrat down ticket because Biden isn't likely going to propose anything the bulk of the population feels is too extreme.

In any case, negative partisanship gets people to turn out to vote who dislike the candidate, or in the case of the midterms wanted to see Trump slowed down. The Democrats have a built in advantage that there are more people who would vote Democrat if you can get them to vote, but the people willing to vote Republican are more reliable voters.

There are many reasons likely Democratic voters don't turn out. In some cases, like 2016, they didn't like the presidential candidate, figured she was going to win anyway, and didn't bother. But a lot of likely Democratic voters also have busier lives (maybe holding down multiple jobs, caring for a family, etc. vs the Republican electorate who has more retired people). Also Republican administrations in many states have made it tougher for Democratic voters to vote. A number of states with Democratic control have made it increasingly easier for people to vote and it has resulted in the states becoming Democratic strongholds.

Barack Obama won in 2008 because a lot of Democratic voters were inspired to turn out and deal with all the hassles to vote for Obama. They didn't turn out in quite the same numbers in 2012, but they did in enough to get him re-elected. In a number of cases it was because Romney with his disconnected air of superiority scared them.

The number of votes cast in 2016 were actually more than 2012 and even 6 million more than 2008 (but the country had 8 years of population growth too). If you look at the demographics of the 2016 vote, there was about 2% more whites than there should have been based on the historical trends. Almost all those extra whites were low frequency white voters who turned out to vote for Trump. It was just enough to push him across the line in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania also thanks to voter suppression and voter redirection efforts in those states. For example the African American vote in Detroit was suppressed thanks to reducing the number of poling places (creating long lines) and disinformation campaigns to get Democratic voters to vote for Jill Stein, or show up to vote the day after.

There are a lot of people who voted for Jill Stein or didn't vote at all who now feel very guilty about it and are determined to vote Democrat this year. There is also a very large number of Americans freaked out about Trump who will crawl over broken glass to vote for anyone with a chance to getting him out of there. A friend of my SO recently confessed to her that she fell for the con and voted for Jill Stein. She's in Florida, so it actually made a difference. She had been silent out of shame for three years.

The 2018 midterms foreshadowed what was coming in 2020. A lot of people who normally don't vote in midterms turned out to vote Democrat and it swept the Democrats into power in the House. In presidential years more Democrats turn out anyway, so the effect may not be as pronounced. Trump has lost a small percentage of his voters from 2016. They have been disappointed and will probably go back to not voting. His rabid base will turn out to vote for him come hell or high water.

In 2016 there were quite a few voters who disliked both candidates, but in many states Trump got the majority of those votes. In the case of negative partisanship, it's better to take a flyer on the devil you don't know than go with the well known devil. About 1./2 those who approve of him will say when follow up questions are asked that they approve of him for economic reasons and not much else. If the economy goes bad, they will stay home, or if there is an attractive third party candidate, they will vote for them. Even if they aren't voting for Biden, their non-vote is a push and Trump is fatally weakened. If you have 100 people, 50 vote for one person, 25 vote for the other, and 25 don't vote, the person who got 50 votes won a 66/33 election.

There are also a number of former Republican never Trumpers who have said they will hold their nose and vote for Biden to get rid of Trump. For them it's a strategic vote, but also a form of negative partisanship. Even if they decide to vote third party or not at all, that still benefits Biden.

Trump's path to re-election was always going to be narrow. It's very doubtful he can break 50% of the popular vote. That leaves him with EV strategies like 2016 without allied governors in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to help him. There are only a few unlikely scenarios where he could win. On the other hand there are many paths to 270 for any Democratic candidate and several paths to over 300. Democrats have blown it before, so there is no point in getting overconfident, but there is no point in working yourself into an ulcer with worry over the less likely scenarios happening.

If you want Trump gone, vote blue no matter who and anyone who you think might vote that way who is too lazy or too busy to vote, work on them and get them to the polls too.
 
Sen. Mitt Romney will vote in favor of a subpoena seeking records about the work Joe Biden’s son Hunter did for the Ukrainian energy firm Burisma, a spokeswoman for the Utah Republican said on Friday.

Romney’s decision comes after several days of expressing dismay over the Senate Homeland Security Committee’s investigation targeting the Bidens, even suggesting on Thursday that the panel shouldn’t even be looking into the issue.

But after securing certain commitments from the committee’s chairman, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), Romney has decided to support the subpoena when the panel votes on it next Wednesday — all but ensuring it will be issued.
Romney to vote for subpoena seeking records on Hunter Biden’s Ukraine work
The Democratic Party is repeating every mistake they made in 2016 by propping up another scandal ridden centrist in Joe Biden. This is what the general election is going to be about if he is the nominee.
Emma Vigeland on Twitter
 
A pragmatic look at the political realities in Washington it's clear Sanders' health care plan is DOA. It will never pass until the Democrats have a commanding majority in the House and Senate as well as the White House. There are quite a few Democrats who won't vote for it under the current climate because they know what happened in the 2010 midterms. And the ACA was not going to put the very powerful insurance company lobby out of business like Bernie's plan would.
I know you also believe that people will vote Sanders but Republican downticket (WAT), but what will actually get passed is a compromise between what the people at the negotiating table want.

If the POTUS is advocating for Medicare For All, then what we'll get is likely a public option, as a compromise.

If the POTUS is advocating for public option, then what we'll get is either a massively watered down public option, or even something like a patchwork of some states having a public option, some states having nothing at all (just like how states were able to refuse the Medicaid expansion under the ACA).
 
  • Like
Reactions: eevee-fan and JRP3
Trump hates anyone pushing back with reality. He's been pushing out anyone from his orbit who does anything but kiss his posterior. It's the nature of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. They can't handle a reality in which they aren't 100% right 100% of the time and everyone agrees they are the font of all knowledge.

Trump has created that bubble around him and deeply entrenched himself in it for the last few years. When he was in the private sector he did quite a bit to insulate himself from reality, but now he has much more ability to do it.

In the 2016 debates, he was a terrible debater and dodged one of the early GOP debates to do his own rally, but came back to the debates when he got backlash for it. The GOP debates played to bullies and Trump did OK there, but when he had to do substantive debates with Hillary he was terrible.

Trump hasn't had to debate anyone in 4 years and incumbent presidents always struggle with the debates in their re-elections. Obama's first debate against Romney didn't go well for him. Neither did GW Bush's first against Kerry.

Trump has a very, very fragile ego. Hillary had neither the instinct nor the inclination to hit that very hard, but when she did, Trump became derailed. Trump has become very used to everyone saying yes to him and being able to fire or expel anyone who has the temerity to not immediately say yes to him. Trump is even more vulnerable to attack in a debate now than he was in 2016. He has gotten used to being surrounded by yes people.

Biden's debate skills are fresh. He's not the greatest debater, but he has an instinct for where Trump's soft spots are and he'll have a first class team of people around him who will help him sharpen every barb in his arsenal. Bloomberg hired one of the top experts in the world in NPD to advise him in dealing with Trump. He will probably offer his services to Biden.

Trump will probably also be in a fragile state by the debates. He thinks he's an expert on everything and he is master of the economy as well as everything else. The more reality conflicts with his beliefs, the more agitated he gets. (Common with several personality disorders.)

This is shaping up to be a bad year to be president. People are very nervous about COVID-19 and he's bungling the response. On the economic front, the economy has been showing signs of softening for a few months, but now it's beginning a serious decline. Trump will likely be very touchy and reactionary by September and October.

If Trump doesn't dodge the debates all together, I expect Biden to throw Trump off his game at every turn with doses of reality.

Rachel Bitecofer has the best bead on the current political climate. Unlike most pundits who look to the past for patterns, she looks at the current psychological state of the country. She has been predicting for a year that any Democrat would probably beat Donald Trump.

A re-election is always first and foremost an initiative on the incumbent. The first question voters ask before considering the opposition is whether the incumbent should be re-elected. If the answer is "no", the challenger automatically has an advantage. Those people are poised to vote for the challenger unless the challenger proves themselves worse than the incumbent. All they have to be is a tiny bit better alternative. Incumbent presidents' share of the popular vote is almost always within a couple of points of their approval rating on election day. Trump's polling average has never cracked 50% and the Five Thirty Eight average hovers in the low 40s (42.8% today). If you look at the internals of the approval polls Trump is very close to 50% strongly disapprove in every poll. That's around 50% who will vote against Donald Trump under just about any circumstances.

Without a strong third party candidate drawing any significant portion of the vote, an incumbent president's odds of getting re-elected drop off sharply as the popular vote gets below 50%. At 47% the odds get very long and it become pretty much mathematically impossible when you get down to around 42%. Another thing the never Trump Republicans could do to further weaken Trump is to run their own candidate to draw off the conservative vote. There are rumors that Joe Walsh is planning on doing just this.

People who strongly disapprove of a candidate are strongly motivated to get out and vote against them. That's happening this year. Biden doesn't have to look amazing, he just needs to look like a better alternative to Trump. He has almost 50% baked in. Among people who normally vote Democrat, some voted third party and some stayed home in 2016 because they didn't like Hillary and figured she was going to win anyway. Those people are deeply motivated by guilt to vote blue no matter who this year.

Most people who disapprove of Trump just want to get back to a "normal" presidency. Once Biden showed he was viable in South Carolina, Democrats have flocked to him. He is a known quantity and even if he is senile as hell, he's better than Trump.

Another factor are the people who do approve of Trump. In most polls the 42% approval is about 1/2 strongly approve and 1/2 moderately approve. A few polls that have done a deeper dive into why people approve of him, quite a few approve of his handling of the economy and nothing else. If the economy goes into recession this year, which looks likely now, about 1/2 of the people who do approve of him will abandon him. Trump knows this which is why he's more concerned about the economic impact of COVID-19 than the impact on human health. Of course because he's an idiot, he's making the problem worse with his responses.

All the Democratic nominee needs to show is that they aren't scary and will be a better option than Trump. If Trump can convince enough people the Democratic nominee is scarier than him, he wins re-election. If he can't, he loses.

Think of it a bit like the 100m at the Olympics. The goal is to win the gold medal. This year the field is weak, Usain Bolt may be the world record holder, but he isn't running this year. Other top runners aren't in the final either. All you need to do is be the first across the finish line to get the gold medal. It probably won't be a world record. It may be the slowest 100m in history, but the first one across the line is the winner. The only two viable runners are over 70 and neither is terribly spry, but one is dragging a giant albatross of his record behind him. Biden could fall down, but all he needs to do is stay upright and get across the line first. Everything else is just noise.

Do you ever do short posts? Seriously, I stop reading by 1/3, 1/2 max because you keep saying the same things in the post over and over.
 
Seems to me this is what Trump is trying to do.
- Limit testing severely
- # of infected cases and deaths attributed to COID19 will be very small
- Claim he managed the crisis perfectly

Not sure the strategy will work - as long as at least all the hospitalized patients are tested.

Ofcourse, as the infection spreads, the healthcare system will break down and even Trump fans can see how their the emperor is naked. Or may be they will invent new lies to explain what is happening.

Trump has not paid any price for lying yet. Why would he in the future / there is always a breaking point. Who knows.

ps : This happens in every authoritarian system. The dictator is invincible until suddenly he is not and everyone wonders why he didn't fall earlier.

pps : Wondering why Trump called Inslee a snake. Did they propose "don't test" strategy to him and he rejected it ? Trump calling Inslee a snake makes zero sense.
 
Trump called inslee a snake because he once told him off publicly and trump can’t take criticism. This comment is just more proof about trumps complete lack of empathy.
Unfortunately I do not see the hardcore trump supporters abandoning him if this gets very bad in the US. Even if people lose close relatives they will still make excuses for him. We will be able to see them first hand in this thread from his resident supporters.
In terms of market impact no doubt because of this administration the situation will be worse compared to any normal administration.
 
Trump called inslee a snake because he once told him off publicly and trump can’t take criticism. This comment is just more proof about trumps complete lack of empathy.
Yes, possibly.

Trump on Inslee: "I told Mike not to be complimentary of that Gov because that Gov is a snake...Let me just tell you we have a lot of problems with the Gov and the Gov of WA, that's where you have many of your problems, OK? So Mike may be happy with him but I'm not OK?"​
 
I know you also believe that people will vote Sanders but Republican downticket (WAT), but what will actually get passed is a compromise between what the people at the negotiating table want.

If the POTUS is advocating for Medicare For All, then what we'll get is likely a public option, as a compromise.

If the POTUS is advocating for public option, then what we'll get is either a massively watered down public option, or even something like a patchwork of some states having a public option, some states having nothing at all (just like how states were able to refuse the Medicaid expansion under the ACA).

That's the way it used to work. Washington doesn't work that way anymore. Democratic president asks for X, gets zip from Republicans. Even if it was something a Republican president would get 100% buy in from GOP on. Democrats will still horse trade, but for Republicans it's politics over policy every time.

Seems to me this is what Trump is trying to do.
- Limit testing severely
- # of infected cases and deaths attributed to COID19 will be very small
- Claim he managed the crisis perfectly

Not sure the strategy will work - as long as at least all the hospitalized patients are tested.

Ofcourse, as the infection spreads, the healthcare system will break down and even Trump fans can see how their the emperor is naked. Or may be they will invent new lies to explain what is happening.

Trump has not paid any price for lying yet. Why would he in the future / there is always a breaking point. Who knows.

ps : This happens in every authoritarian system. The dictator is invincible until suddenly he is not and everyone wonders why he didn't fall earlier.

pps : Wondering why Trump called Inslee a snake. Did they propose "don't test" strategy to him and he rejected it ? Trump calling Inslee a snake makes zero sense.

This is par for the course with Trump. He always has to look good doing everything. Anyone who makes him look bad is automatically a terrible person, even if the person is being perfectly reasonable, or the problem isn't really their fault.

Trump's view of the world is very different from normal people. Everything revolves around him.

Sorry for the long posts sometimes. I do tend to blither. :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: VValleyEV
This is par for the course with Trump. He always has to look good doing everything. Anyone who makes him look bad is automatically a terrible person, even if the person is being perfectly reasonable, or the problem isn't really their fault.

Trump's view of the world is very different from normal people. Everything revolves around him.

Or automatically a terrible fact. (Aka hoax, fake news.) It is actually a very simple principle and his supporters thank him for that.
 
More videos of Biden's blunders are showing up all the time. One was from a rally today where he says "O-biden Bama", another is a collection of him using the word "expodentially", repeatedly. I won't bother posting them, it's too depressing, I'm sure you can find them if you want to.
 
More videos of Biden's blunders are showing up all the time. One was from a rally today where he says "O-biden Bama", another is a collection of him using the word "expodentially", repeatedly. I won't bother posting them, it's too depressing, I'm sure you can find them if you want to.

... hm... almost looks like this for both Trump and Biden... are they robots?

 
Status
Not open for further replies.