Market politics

[Lucky_Man]

Many of the US-centric comments here seem to ignore historical context. Distorted and falsified political news has been with the country since John Adams, at least:inceptionhttp://masshumanities.org/ph_john-adams-fake-news/
Keeping within the lifetime of many of us, how about The "Red Scare" of Senator McCarthy aided assiduously by Richard Nixon and Roy Cohn (the same Roy Cohn who later holding the fledging Donald Trump to home his political sensibilities. Just in case anybody does not know, these stalwart people spread absolute lies and innuendo enough to destroy many lives and spread fear in the US populace. The Cohn rule "when justifiably accused deny, deny, deny and accuse the accuser of everything you're guilty of yourself". He was disbarred eventually but not without major damage, while helping the political career of Richard Nixon.

The only difference between the McCarthy era and the Trump era is that most of the McCarthy era people were quite intelligent and mostly secular also.
Today the US Presidency is dominated by Evangelical Christian seekers for The Rapture. Trump, as a King Cyrus-like non-believer is accepted as the harbinger of the end of times. A recent perfectly typical example is that of Mike Pompeo in Egypt "I come before you as an Evangelical Christian..." Check the messaging, do not accept my word for this, please. That President trump neither knows nor cares about this situation is quite guaranteed to be even more destructive, precisely because his own political party is so afraid, just as they were in the early 1950's.

For the interest of Tesla, science, the Rule of Law and so much else the only hope is rejection of these ideologies. That will happen, hopefully before it becomes too late. Remember that Brazil, Hungary and others are being captured right now by the same menace. The advance of Christian, Islamic, Hindu and other religious extremists right now has massive risks. All this is very unlikely to end quietly.

Note: you might consider me biased since I grew up in the McCarthy era when my father, an evangelical protestant minister, preached of the evils of 'godless communists"... Hatred of 'the others' produces truly horrible inhumanity, and it did then too.

History, personal experiences and observations truly do shape us, do they not? Thank you for sharing yours.

 

[Lucky_Man]

Well, there's Sinclair which is in some ways far more dangerous than Fox. Fox you either trust or you don't but at least their bias (or lack thereof depending on your perspective - you could substitute MSNBC for Fox above depending on your perspective) is clear and present, but when your local news station is feeding you distortions or lies as if they were real stories, it can slip by the radar. Local news is generally considered / expected to be unbiased (beyond being biased in favor of their locality), as they don't typically have any political affiliations.

List of stations owned or operated by Sinclair Broadcast Group - Wikipedia

Sinclair Made Dozens of Local News Anchors Recite the Same Script

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...vative-local-news-giant-with-a-growing-reach/

Even the guy who used to be President & COO of News Corp said it was "Insidious"

Sinclair airs politically slanted pieces like this and this, and pretends they're local segments.

The real danger in Sinclair Broadcast’s ‘fake news’ scandal


(bolding mine)

We can disagree on whether a clearly left or right organization is more or less biased than the other. But at least Fox / MSNBC / etc are clearly what they are. Sinclair is a symptom of a deeper corruption of the media, that is harder to see if not for their lazy lack of foresight to send the same script to every station (had they changed them up to avoid avoid similarities, it would have gone unnoticed).

We really need a clear separation between factual news, editorial/opinion on the news, and "entertainment" (which is how anyone can get away with lying and/or being intentionally misleading). And the lines between these should not be allowed to be blurred. Freedom of the press and the first amendment are important, but they're both being abused to damage our democracy.

Thanks for your both informative *and* helpful statements.

Remember, each of us gets to chose how we interpret 'news'. It's fairly easy for me to recognize truth vs fiction vs propaganda, but I realize others may not have a similar perceptive ability. I will admit, though, I enjoy a generous helping of schadenfreude now and then. Hence I occasionally search out Rachel's latest delivery.

In the world of government, all anyone has to learn is to look at an elected lawmakers voting record. It becomes clear, based on their past votes,whether they are honest, caring and work for the benefit of the people - or deceptive and greedy.

Another tool used to be the concept of 'following the money', but that has been taken away from us by the Roberts Supreme Court allowing criminal intent to be masked by their ridiculous application of our First Amendment (Corporations are people!) and now we can't follow the money. At least until the corrupting influence of money in their Citizens United v. FEC ruling is overturned.

Personally, I reject anyone who insists I believe as they do. My choice is to search for truth, and vote accordingly. The same applies to anyone attempting to sell me something, or to sign a contract for their services.

Ahh well. Time for a coffee refill ;^)

 

[JRP3]

This is one of the most used spins lately. Find somebody who is "on the other side" to say something and then try to spin that to make it seam that "most" people feel that way. As soon as I see that, on either side, I immediately assume someone is trying to pull one over on me.

That's one way to spin it...

 

[Intl Professor]

My SO lawyer was reading what other lawyers were saying about that NY Times article @Intl Professor posted. There is a key thing about the FBI investigation that most people have been missing up to now. It started out and is still primarily a counter-intelligence investigation. That's why Mueller has indicted so many Russians.

Lawfare does a much better job than I can explaining it:
What if the Obstruction Was the Collusion? On the New York Times’s Latest Bombshell

As they say, it isn't the crime, it's the coverup that gets you. Trump set off a legal landmine when he fired Comey and then ran his mouth about it.

There is also speculation that Trump wants to keep the government shut down to keep the courts and FBI hobbled so he can't be indicted. He is that much of a narcissist that he will put millions through hell to save himself. Or he thinks it will save him. I don't think it will.

I think the only way for the government to re-open at this point is for Congress to override Trump's veto. If the votes aren't there now to do it in the Senate, they will be soon. I saw an article the other day that at least 7 GOP senators up in 2020 are really sweating. According toodo a recent PPP poll most of those 7 have a generic Democrat beating them by 9 or more points right now. There are 21 Republican seats up in 2020. Mitch McConnell is doing everything he can to prevent any bills from making it to the Senate floor, but he's getting more and more pressure from his caucus.

Good catch. I would ad to the Lawfare piece: It is also passing strange the Trump transition team had Jared Kushner speaking to the Russian Ambassador about a back-channel communication method with Russia separate from USG communication facilities. Also, be prepared, since his father was indicted for criminal activity, one cannot suspect Jared supports all FBI endeavors.

Does the NSA have an intercept of these talks and are they in Mueller's hands? There may be many smoking guns and we see only the air breathing tip of this iceberg.

 

[Intl Professor]

Another thought or two on Russia and Trump. Many ask why is Trump so fixated on the Russia thing if he's innocent? Some have suggested it is because it diminishes his role in winning the presidency. But since despite himself, HIMSELF often admits what his evil intent is—say to Lester Holt. He reeks of "yes I am guilty when he says 'no collusion.'" There's a fitting line here from Macbeth, I thinkith.

Furthermore, many ask why have so many around him lied to those investigating the Russia connection? Because they are getting warm about something hot which they all know and are afraid to admit?

 

[lolachampcar]

I have enjoyed Frank Figliuzzi since he has come on the talking heads tour. He has tried eight ways to Sunday to tell us that the Trump thing is a counter intelligence issue directly related to Russia's interference in the Presidential election and subsequent issues. His hands are tied when it comes to classified info but he all but confirmed that the FBI was dealing with more than Trumps public facing comments when they began their counter intelligence investigation into the sitting President. The NYT article finally gave him the cover to say, yep, that's what's really going on folks.

The fan and the fecal matter are getting ever closer.

 

[Unpilot]

EVERY president pays back his supporters with sweetheart deals at taxpayer expense and president Obama was no different, President Trump says some really stupid S**T and so many of his Tweets are more than ridiculous but given a choice of Trump, Hilary or Sanders I'd still vote for Trump and the S**T show he is because the far left will destroy capitalism with the ideals of Sanders, AOC and the like. so bring on the S**T show, I'll take it!

So when one runs on the premise to drain the swamp and then does not that gets a pass because they all do it?
This was one of his central themes...he is an outsider not beholding to the Washington insiders. Only he can fix it. Remember?

 

[Intl Professor]

Decades ago when I pondered such questions I found proof of God in so much unnecessary beauty in the world, my particular focus then on flowers and their animal variety called woman.

Imagine my delight in discovering another gem of support from the New York Times Magazine.

How Beauty Is Making Scientists Rethink Evolution

Like many efforts to seek answers about unanswerable questions, there are no simple answers and so this is another effort which becomes like its predecessors—inconclusive.

Yet it my old age, still seeking a close shave by William of Ockham, it might be broken down into completion of Torrecelli's rule. "Nature does, indeed, abhor a vacuum, so it seeks to fill it with variety. Some fail, some don't, but we see evidence of all efforts." So true when we try to call attention to ourselves.

OT you say? No, Trump was elected by those seeking variety. Is the vacuum he's creating to be filled by the variety of another media darling, AlexandrIa Ocasio-Cortez?

A prediction. The next president will be a woman although she may have to wait until after the second Trump presidency. AOC will be eligible by then, but before the election? I don't know her month of birth.

 

[dmckinstry]

So when one runs on the premise to drain the swamp and then does not that gets a pass because they all do it?
This was one of his central themes...he is an outsider not beholding to the Washington insiders. Only he can fix it. Remember?

He has drained the swamp of water and replaced the water with sludge and crap.

 

[gilscales]

So when one runs on the premise to drain the swamp and then does not that gets a pass because they all do it?
This was one of his central themes...he is an outsider not beholding to the Washington insiders. Only he can fix it. Remember?

I was not naive enough to believe that campaign promises would be kept, I did not fall for "we will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" or "Read my lips, no new taxes" or "If you like your health plan, you can keep it"

They ALL LIE and we will never see that change.

 

[Heart Land]

I think for most people it depends on which way you lean politically, I personally think that one has to be very naive to believe that only one side of the news is biased (the one side you do not agree with) I am a conservative and watch the 3 major "Politically biased" news networks regularly along with other not so well known ones, my conclusion is that ALL networks are heavily biased and it so clearly visible I find it hard to imagine others do not see this fact. Don't even get me started on the Social network "Facebook" heavy bias and of course the number one search engine "Google" that 99% of people count on for their "Unbiased" search results!

The most recent Autoline show with Sandy Munro is a good microcosm for today’s news. The Bloomberg journalist, who is one of their Tesla experts, was the least knowledgeable out of everyone on that show. He was the only one in a suit and tie, and frequently interrupted with his opinions, which we know to be off the mark. The last person we would listen to is the Bloomberg journalist, rather than the others on the show, if we would want to learn about Tesla. So why would we pay attention to the opinions of journalists and politicians when we should be listening to the opinions of the people on the ground dealing with the problems every day. I trust Sandy Munro’s opinion because he reverse engineers cars for a living and has worked as an engineer for some of the world’s biggest car manufacturers. The Bloomberg guy does not understand the intricacies of manufacturing a car or the internal structure/bureaucracies of the business. It’s called not getting “it”. He does not get “it”. Just like today’s politicians and journalists do not get “it”. We should be listening to the people that are on the ground. Unedited interviews are good sources of info, but nothing is better than having real life conversations with people fighting against the issues everyday (ie the policeman, border patrol, teachers, community leaders,etc).

 

[JRP3]

So why would we pay attention to the opinions of journalists and politicians when we should be listening to the opinions of the people on the ground dealing with the problems every day.

Plenty of people close to Trump have expressed concern about his abilities.

 

[azaz]

I was not naive enough to believe that campaign promises would be kept, I did not fall for "we will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" or "Read my lips, no new taxes" or "If you like your health plan, you can keep it"

They ALL LIE and we will never see that change.

so then it was the racism that piqued your interest?

 

[Bobfitz1]

I was not naive enough to believe that campaign promises would be kept, I did not fall for "we will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" or "Read my lips, no new taxes" or "If you like your health plan, you can keep it"
They ALL LIE and we will never see that change.

How sad that you view political truthfulness as binary. That allows you to equate a Trump, who factually lies nearly every time he opens his mouth, with some % of politicians who serve for the most part honorably. A politician who promises to work toward some goal, and does, has not lied if the goal is not realized. As long as they worked as hard as possible for the goal. A real lie is saying repeatedly in public you have no business with Russia, when in fact you have had lots of dealings with Russia and have been actively working to have them finance a billion dollar Tower with your name on it in their capital city.

 

[gilscales]

so then it was the racism that piqued your interest?

Seems like this is the main talking point for the left and has been for a while, I wrote a poem for you

The Left
You don't agree with me, you are a racist
You don't think like me, you are a bigot
I don't like what you say, you are a Nazi

We will make you pay, Hillary
You will not get away with this, Sanders
Only we know the truth so you have to be wrong

SILENCE! you are not allowed to speak
Stay out of our schools, we control them
WE will tell you what to believe

We march, you are a fascist
We engage, you are a fascist?
We destroy, we are fascists?
WE CONTROL, WE ARE FASCISTS!

(FINGER SNAPS, FINGER snaps, finger snaps)

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

 

[gilscales]

some % of politicians who serve for the most part honorably

So pigs do fly? and I can get ice water in hell? thats AWESOME!

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I was not naive enough to believe that campaign promises would be kept, I did not fall for "we will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" or "Read my lips, no new taxes" or "If you like your health plan, you can keep it"

They ALL LIE and we will never see that change.

You're misconstruing unachieved goals for statements of lying. I will not fault Trump for setting the wall as an objective, just like I won't fault Bush for not being able to see that new taxes were needed to fund the government. As for Obama, I got to keep my insurance so i consider that goal achieved.

But where you've put your blinders on is not recognizing that Bush senior caved in when he realized that "no new taxes" wasn't possible and he didn't fabricate facts to support it. Trump isn't open to changing his mind in light of new information and instead fabricates his own to justify his stubbornness.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Seems like this is the main talking point for the left and has been for a while, I wrote a poem for you

The Left
You don't agree with me, you are a racist
You don't think like me, you are a bigot
I don't like what you say, you are a Nazi

We will make you pay, Hillary
You will not get away with this, Sanders
Only we know the truth so you have to be wrong

SILENCE! you are not allowed to speak
Stay out of our schools, we control them
WE will tell you what to believe

We march, you are a fascist
We engage, you are a fascist?
We destroy, we are fascists?
WE CONTROL, WE ARE FASCISTS!

(FINGER SNAPS, FINGER snaps, finger snaps)

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

This post is a mockery of every logical argument made against you and shows exactly what's wrong with your stance.

 

[azaz]

Seems like this is the main talking point for the left and has been for a while, I wrote a poem for you

The Left
You don't agree with me, you are a racist
You don't think like me, you are a bigot
I don't like what you say, you are a Nazi

We will make you pay, Hillary
You will not get away with this, Sanders
Only we know the truth so you have to be wrong

SILENCE! you are not allowed to speak
Stay out of our schools, we control them
WE will tell you what to believe

We march, you are a fascist
We engage, you are a fascist?
We destroy, we are fascists?
WE CONTROL, WE ARE FASCISTS!

(FINGER SNAPS, FINGER snaps, finger snaps)

Thank you, I'll be here all week!

Make straw man arguments all you want, but the man ran on racism and is a racist himself. It’s just a fact.

Maybe be less considered with someone calling something racist versus actual racist acts.

 

[gilscales]

This post is a mockery of every logical argument made against you and shows exactly what's wrong with your stance.

I'm just a 12 year old in a 58 year old body, don't take me to serious, haha