Market value for Plaid

[Howie Dub]

The market decides what cars are worth. Not Elon. The only thing Tesla gets to decide is if they want to listen to the market and sell cars, or not.

What exactly is “artificial depreciation”? You think Tesla voluntarily reduced the prices of their cars because they got sick of making so much money on them?

Name another car company that drops their new car prices for what is supposed to be their flagship model by over 30% in one year like Tesla has. Or name another car that has a used price dropped that much in such a short period of time. My Ram truck has a horrible resale value, but it's not as bad as Tesla. That's what I mean by artificial. I understand wanting to get your volume up, but I'm trying to understand how market dictates that big of a drop. You don't see Audi dropping their prices that much, and they have a similar sales volume. Please explain since it makes that much sense to you. My simple mind doesn't understand it.

 

[ucmndd]

Name another car company that drops their new car prices for what is supposed to be their flagship model by over 30% in one year like Tesla has. Or name another car that has a used price dropped that much in such a short period of time. My Ram truck has a horrible resale value, but it's not as bad as Tesla. That's what I mean by artificial. I understand wanting to get your volume up, but I'm trying to understand how market dictates that big of a drop. You don't see Audi dropping their prices that much, and they have a similar sales volume. Please explain since it makes that much sense to you. My simple mind doesn't understand it.

Car prices were in a fantastic once-in-a-generation bubble across the board. Prices have dropped precipitously across the entire industry. Those that HAVEN’T aggressively reduced transaction prices have seen inventory pile up at an alarming rate.

Carrying ~300 days of inventory like some automakers are right now on insanely expensive trucks that nobody wants to buy is not a luxury that Tesla’s direct sales model can tolerate (I.e. just load up a bunch of third party dealers with crap they can’t sell and deal with it later).

Yes, it’s unsurprising that the cars that dropped the farthest in value were the most expensive emerging-tech toys at the very top of the market.

There’s nothing “artificial” about what’s going on. You bought your fantastically expensive pleasure car at the peak of a Covid-induced auto industry bubble. It isn’t worth what you paid and arguably never was. Lesson learned I hope?

Nobody seemed super surprised when car prices ran UP by like 30% in a couple years. That makes it doubly confusing that so many people are angry and confused about their inevitable return to normal.

 

[Howie Dub]

Car prices were in a fantastic once-in-a-generation bubble across the board. Prices have dropped precipitously across the entire industry. Those that HAVEN’T aggressively reduced transaction prices have seen inventory pile up at an alarming rate.

Carrying ~300 days of inventory like some automakers are right now on insanely expensive trucks that nobody wants to buy is not a luxury that Tesla’s direct sales model can tolerate (I.e. just load up a bunch of third party dealers with crap they can’t sell and deal with it later).

Yes, it’s unsurprising that the cars that dropped the farthest in value were the most expensive emerging-tech toys at the very top of the market.

There’s nothing “artificial” about what’s going on. You bought your fantastically expensive pleasure car at the peak of a Covid-induced auto industry bubble. It isn’t worth what you paid and arguably never was. Lesson learned I hope?

Nobody seemed super surprised when car prices ran UP by like 30% in a couple years. That makes it doubly confusing that so many people are angry and confused about their inevitable return to normal.

I bought my truck during the bubble one year prior to buying the Plaid and still got 14% off MSRP. And it’s not like the Plaid’s price went up significantly between 2021 and 2022; at the time I bought, it was only $10k more from the original 2021 $120k MSRP. There was nothing in the Plaid’s price history that suggested it would drop below $100k. Most, if not all performance Model S‘s were about $100k or more. And where are you getting this 30% run up on car prices? Show me a new car MSRP from any of the major automakers that ran up 30% from last year or even the year before.

If you don’t think it’s artificial, then why has my one year older truck dropped less than the Plaid? MSRP was $80k, which puts it in the luxury vehicle price range. I bought at $68.5k and had virtually every option, which never helps resale, yet it has held its value better than my Plaid. And that’s with the crazy prices of fuel. Aren’t Teslas supposed to hold their value? Also, where did you get 300 days of inventory that automakers are currently dealing with? I know certain unpopular cars will sit, but most automakers have about 45-80 days of inventory, and Tesla falls right in that range. We’ll agree to disagree, but this drop in Tesla’s prices is not normal. Yes, the lesson learned is never to buy a Tesla, new or used, from Tesla.

 

[ucmndd]

If you don’t think it’s artificial

So, again. The crux of your argument is that Tesla “artificially” dropped prices lower than necessary because they apparently don’t like selling cars for higher profits and have no need for the money.

Got it.

 

[Howie Dub]

So, again. The crux of your argument is that Tesla “artificially” dropped prices lower than necessary because they apparently don’t like selling cars for higher profits and have no need for the money.

Got it.

And yet you still can't answer my questions.

Got it.

 

[ucmndd]

And yet you still can't answer my questions.

Got it.

You don't have questions that haven't been answered. You have a conspiracy theory and a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.

 

[Howie Dub]

You don't have questions that haven't been answered. You have a conspiracy theory and a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.

You're right, I'm wrong. Simple supply and demand is the only reason for unprecedented price drops. Congrats, you win an online pissing match. Have a good day

 

[iggy33]

I had a mobile service technician tell me not to worry about the price drops b/c Teslas hold their value; not if they keep dropping the prices the way they do. I bought my Plaid when it was $130k and came out to $145k after everything. Put $20k down with a loan that was 2.39% through Logix. I go upside on my loan every time they drop the price just as I’m getting ahead. Upside down as of today. Luckily my insurance automatically includes 20% gap insurance just in case anything happens, but still pisses me off.

While I respect Elon, this is artificial depreciation caused by one person. I have never seen any other car manufacturer reduce their new price by over 30% in a year. You’ll see $5k, $10k, maybe even $15k (assuming $100k vehicle), but that’s usually to push out the old in order to bring in the new model year. And the new model year will always be priced higher. The difference between Tesla and other dealerships is that you can negotiate at other dealerships. If you don’t like the deal, you just go to another dealership or even go out of state. That’s what I did with my 2021 Ram 1500 Limited. I was able to get 14% below MSRP. Used value is 20% below what I bought it at, but it’s also a year older. Even if I purchased at MSRP, I’d be down about 30%. And it’s not even considered a luxury vehicle. While I don’t expect cars to appreciate in value, I also don’t expect them to depreciate so quickly the way my Plaid did. Yes, I’ve had fun with it, even with the 40mph vibration issue, but I don’t anticipate buying a new Tesla again. And they have the nerve to charge their existing Plaid owners $2700 for the upgraded brake pads and calipers that all new Plaids get. What rattles my cage the most is that I could get a new Plaid now, add the insanely expensive Track Package, and it would still be less than what I paid last May.

End rant.

I totally get it. But, I just don't think Elon or anyone else at Tesla should care about resale value. Their first responsibility is to the shareholders. I get why it s frustrating but no one should be blaming Tesla for trying to maximize shareholder value. I'd think about it in reverse. So, if Elon believes that these pricing changes are going to help their stock price and revenue, but he doesn't do it because he's worried about resale value, how would that play with shareholders and employees? What if they would need to layoff employees due to lack of sales?

 

[BOOMER7]

Trying to decide I have a offer on two plaids both are 2021s with pretty much identical miles one has FSD other doesn’t 4K difference in price
Thoughts?
Any reason to consider a 2022 plaid can pick one up for about a 7K difference

 

[PR0FESSOR]

FSD is worth $4k to me. I bought it and love it, even with all of its flaws.

Joe

 

[Ash83]

Yeah that's a very good point. In this forum, several members have ordered the Plaid at the newer lower price and the EDD have been 1-2mos...so this means they are likely filling up production capacity for the Model S Plaids and hence the later delivery dates.

I think you're right in that looking at this informal data point...it's likely Tesla is seeing decent uptick in demand for the MSP cars and there is likely no incentive for end of Q3 (end of this week) and likely no further drop in price any time soon (if any, there mayt be a MSRP price bump back up if demand is pretty decent/consistent).

We will see how it is near end of quarter 4

Wait and lets see when they drop the price again to compete with other luxury brands. As everyone who sat in a MSP knows it is not 90k car.

 

[Ash83]

I had a mobile service technician tell me not to worry about the price drops b/c Teslas hold their value; not if they keep dropping the prices the way they do. I bought my Plaid when it was $130k and came out to $145k after everything. Put $20k down with a loan that was 2.39% through Logix. I go upside on my loan every time they drop the price just as I’m getting ahead. Upside down as of today. Luckily my insurance automatically includes 20% gap insurance just in case anything happens, but still pisses me off.

While I respect Elon, this is artificial depreciation caused by one person. I have never seen any other car manufacturer reduce their new price by over 30% in a year. You’ll see $5k, $10k, maybe even $15k (assuming $100k vehicle), but that’s usually to push out the old in order to bring in the new model year. And the new model year will always be priced higher. The difference between Tesla and other dealerships is that you can negotiate at other dealerships. If you don’t like the deal, you just go to another dealership or even go out of state. That’s what I did with my 2021 Ram 1500 Limited. I was able to get 14% below MSRP. Used value is 20% below what I bought it at, but it’s also a year older. Even if I purchased at MSRP, I’d be down about 30%. And it’s not even considered a luxury vehicle. While I don’t expect cars to appreciate in value, I also don’t expect them to depreciate so quickly the way my Plaid did. Yes, I’ve had fun with it, even with the 40mph vibration issue, but I don’t anticipate buying a new Tesla again. And they have the nerve to charge their existing Plaid owners $2700 for the upgraded brake pads and calipers that all new Plaids get. What rattles my cage the most is that I could get a new Plaid now, add the insanely expensive Track Package, and it would still be less than what I paid last May.

End rant.

No other car will drop that fast. Unless someone paid over MSRP.

Also wait until you see more stories of people reporting that dealers are refusing to take Teslas as Trade in or they really lowball you. Bottom line if you love Tesla assume it will have no value when you trade it in or very minimal one “way bellow the market standard”

 

[EXOTIC1]

Wait and let’s see when they drop the price again to compete with other luxury brands. As everyone who sat in a MSP knows it is not 90k car.

Lol….
the performance alone rivals million dollar cars….
Just about everyone, I know who uses a plaid as a DD has said it’s the best daily they’ve ever owned, and would buy again. Having owned last 2 DD Panamera turbo & Flying Spur
I find the interiors to be way over done.
I much prefer ( like many) the minimalistic approach. A new plaid not worth 90K lol
Thx 4 the chuckle provided in that post

 

[Ash83]

what price do you think it should be ?
the performance alone rivals million dollar cars not worth 90 K thanks for the chuckle
Just about everyone, I know who uses a plaid as a DD has said it’s the best daily they’ve ever owned, and would buy again. Having owner Panamera turbo and Flying Spur
I find the interiors to be way over sone I’ve much more prefer the minimalistic approach.

Looks you never been or owned a million dollar car or even a 200k car

The plaid is a great value for drag racing and thats it! Not luxury by any means.

 

[EXOTIC1]

Looks you never been or owned a million dollar car or even a 200k car

The plaid is a great value for drag racing and thats it! Not luxury by any means.

Thx 4 the chuckle

 

[BOOMER7]

Thx 4 the chuckle

Simple to the point and spot on.

 

[Ash83]

Thx 4 the chuckle

LMFAO. You pretty much reflected on personal life enjoy!

 

[BrokerDon]

My bet is there's no way that's $15.9K to fix. It's all part of the game. The body shop will start tearing it apart, and once it's all in pieces and they have eaten up the $15.9K, they will hit the insurance with a surprise estimate of another $30K to fix the car. They.do.it.all.the.time.

Best solution is to get your wrecked Tesla to a Tesla Collission center (body shop). I got wonky estimates from 2 Tesla certified body shops to replace my 2015 MS P85D rear bumper a couple of years ago. They BOTH insisted that the cost would almost assuredly be HIGHER and the turn around time WEEKS or MONTHS longer since it was a Tesla

I discovered that Tesla had their OWN body shops and got an appointment the next day. Tesla rep gave me a written estimate and said guaranteed
they'd deal with the guy who hit me's insurance company for any overages... AND have the work done in 4 days !!! Sure enough he called me 4 days later and said I could pick up my P85DL+. It was perfect !!! You can create a Tesla collision repair request right in the Tesla app under Service: Request Service: Collission & Glass.

 

[NeuroRad]

I had a mobile service technician tell me not to worry about the price drops b/c Teslas hold their value; not if they keep dropping the prices the way they do. I bought my Plaid when it was $130k and came out to $145k after everything. Put $20k down with a loan that was 2.39% through Logix. I go upside on my loan every time they drop the price just as I’m getting ahead. Upside down as of today. Luckily my insurance automatically includes 20% gap insurance just in case anything happens, but still pisses me off.

While I respect Elon, this is artificial depreciation caused by one person. I have never seen any other car manufacturer reduce their new price by over 30% in a year. You’ll see $5k, $10k, maybe even $15k (assuming $100k vehicle), but that’s usually to push out the old in order to bring in the new model year. And the new model year will always be priced higher. The difference between Tesla and other dealerships is that you can negotiate at other dealerships. If you don’t like the deal, you just go to another dealership or even go out of state. That’s what I did with my 2021 Ram 1500 Limited. I was able to get 14% below MSRP. Used value is 20% below what I bought it at, but it’s also a year older. Even if I purchased at MSRP, I’d be down about 30%. And it’s not even considered a luxury vehicle. While I don’t expect cars to appreciate in value, I also don’t expect them to depreciate so quickly the way my Plaid did. Yes, I’ve had fun with it, even with the 40mph vibration issue, but I don’t anticipate buying a new Tesla again. And they have the nerve to charge their existing Plaid owners $2700 for the upgraded brake pads and calipers that all new Plaids get. What rattles my cage the most is that I could get a new Plaid now, add the insanely expensive Track Package, and it would still be less than what I paid last May.

End rant.

Tesla likely doesn’t care. For the amount they gouged you they probably made an expected lifetime amount of profit off a single customer. So they don’t care if you never buy another car from them. Contrast that with Porsche who won’t even make certain nameplate 911s so prior gen owners aren’t depreciated. Tesla is going for a race to the bottom.

 

[etekberg]

Tesla likely doesn’t care. For the amount they gouged you they probably made an expected lifetime amount of profit off a single customer. So they don’t care if you never buy another car from them. Contrast that with Porsche who won’t even make certain nameplate 911s so prior gen owners aren’t depreciated. Tesla is going for a race to the bottom.

This argument is so tiring. Elon is not trying to be like Porsche, rather he wants everyone in an EV and high prices is the #1 barrier to that.