Massive SC subsidizing by new owners?

[srs5694]

when I NEED to charge quickly, like on a road trip, and I see a station full of people charging for free to 100% I am annoyed, like the person who started this thread. Quadrupling their FUSC cost wouldn't help, it would still be free.

That's a valid point -- raising the cost to charge past 90% won't affect those with free Supercharging. OTOH, as the number of Teslas and Superchargers goes up, the proportion of people with free Supercharging will go down -- if Tesla refrains from offering free Supercharging as an incentive (or for any other reason). They've said they'd do so in the past, but they keep doing so for limited periods, much like a person who promises not to eat any more potato chips. Right now, the chips bag is open, at least for Model S and Model X.

I don't believe that people will be using free supercharging for decades, just because I don't think the Supercharger network is going to last for decades. If EVs are the future, the only way we're going to get there is ubiquitous charging. It doesn't make sense to make heterogeneous networks with different access points, price points and connectivity. There will be a single universal charging standard in the same way that there is a single gasoline. Tesla is only in the charging business because it helps them sell cars. It seems reasonable that they would seek to divest this business, as long as it doesn't impact their core business of selling cars.

Maybe; but maybe a better analog is computer OSes. Windows has yet to kill off macOS, despite the interoperability issues between the two. There are also multiple Linux distributions and various more exotic OSes. Similar comments could be made about phone and tablet OSes (iOS vs. Android vs. the more exotic choices). Apple could ditch macOS and iOS in favor of Windows (or Linux) and Android. They don't because macOS and iOS remain, at least in some buyers' estimation, superior to Windows and Android. Right now, the Supercharger network retains a vaguely similar advantage over CCS/CHAdeMO charging. As the latter is built out and improved, I'd expect the gap to narrow; but it might remain wide enough for Superchargers to survive for quite a while, and maybe even indefinitely, particularly if Tesla can innovate with new features (I don't know what, offhand) or simply better service (superior reliability, in-car navigation to Superchargers, more or better locations, etc.). The longer Tesla holds out on its own charging plug, too, the greater the incentive to keep the Supercharger network operating simply to service existing vehicles.

To be sure, I'd prefer to see standardization and interoperability, or at least see Tesla, CCS, and CHAdeMO plugs on a majority of DC fast chargers. That might not happen for quite a while, though.

you aren't charging your car directly with AC power. The utility power is fed into giant array of batteries and then pushed DC to DC to your vehicle. These on site battery packs have costs, maintenance, etc.

Your use of present tense makes it sound as if you think this is the way DC fast charging works today. Although there are a few stations with batteries in place to reduce utility demand charges today, they're the exception rather than the rule. Most DC fast chargers today, including most Superchargers, are run off of grid power. That may change in the future, but it's not clear how quickly it will change.

 

[dc121gw]

Not to labor the point, but it's not even remotely comparable to gasoline sales. Some folks responding to me are getting hung up on semantics. If you buy a Honda Accord with a gas engine, you can get fuel at any gas station anywhere in the world. It might be high octane. It might be an ethanol blend. It might have branded detergents added. For some reason, New Jersey thinks its residents are too stupid to pump their own gas, and require them to pay an attendant to do it for them. All these differences don't change the basic fact that gasoline has achieved ubiquity and universal compatibility, and EV charging hasn't.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

So I noticed that the local super charger (Coeur d'Alene Idaho) has a rate of 0.27 cents/kWh.

I thought to myself, wait; there is a hydroelectric plant a few miles away and my utility bill is only 0.086 cents/kWh.

This means Telsa is charging 320% more for their electricity?

So basically; I am subsidizing everyone that got lifetime free supercharging with their cars? That's pretty lame.

Thanks Man!!! You are awesome!

Current '14 P85+ and '16 90D owner and former '13 P85 owner. We appreciate it, hope you enjoy your subsidized Model 3! or S or X! We paid a hellvua a lot more for our three S's so you could get yours!

 

[ambudriver03]

Thanks Man!!! You are awesome!

Current '14 P85+ and '16 90D owner and former '13 P85 owner. We appreciate it, hope you enjoy your subsidized Model 3! or S or X! We paid a hellvua a lot more for our three S's so you could get yours!

I don't even care if Tesla charges more for supercharger access than it costs for me to charge at home... demand charges prevent discourage big users from destroying the grid.

And thanks to all the original roadster owners who subsidized the model S, who subsidized the model X and then all the investors who kept dumping money into the money pit that is Tesla.

I remember ten years ago I said "wow. A completely electric car? That'll never catch on... Not until the infrastructure and battery tech do..."

Here I am ten years later eating my words with a model 3 performance. A legitimate wonder of engineering...

I don't know how much money it cost to develop the model 3 but it is immense...

Just think about all the different things that Tesla has to juggle not to mention fighting the incumbent automakers.

 

[SigNC]

Why not >20 miles from where your car sleeps it's free. <20 miles and you pay. That way free unlimited supercharging is used for its intended purpose...

good idea but it alienates people who live in a situation where they can't have at home charging.

 

[wycolo]

Tire mileage or google/radius mileage? Not the same and I doubt TM has an actual mileage database. Doing that 45 mile round trip run just for a maintenance charge when you have no shopping to do gets to be a PIA after a few times.
--

 

[nwdiver]

good idea but it alienates people who live in a situation where they can't have at home charging.

.... they can still supercharge... it just isn't free.

And I'd love to see a situation where charging is 'impossible'. If you can park your car there then there's gonna be a way. It may not be cheap but it won't be impossible.

 

[SigNC]

.... they can still supercharge... it just isn't free.

And I'd love to see a situation where charging is 'impossible'. If you can park your car there then there's gonna be a way. It may not be cheap but it won't be impossible.

Sure, you can do anything with enough money but it's not practical

 

[nwdiver]

Sure, you can do anything with enough money but it's not practical

IMO using L3 charging for daily use is not practical... especially at scale

 

[ambudriver03]

IMO using L3 charging for daily use is not practical... especially at scale

If 'only' we had 3 phase AC at home.
(not only)

Certainly beneficial for Europe as they already use three phase power and getting power delivery for Chargers is trivial.

 

[nwdiver]

If 'only' we had 3 phase AC at home.
(not only)

Certainly beneficial for Europe as they already use three phase power and getting power delivery for Chargers is trivial.

.... wouldn't really help if we did... no EV I'm aware of in the US can use more than 2 phases...

Even if you could even just ~2kW is more than enough for regular overnight charging.

 

[hill]

@ambudriver03, If only? there's a downside to everything. When Teslas charge at 20K & above, an algorithm logs towards a threshold #. Once the threshold is passed? Supercharging gets throttled. But - back to the "if only" at hand. L3;
For the many of us that utilize Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter - several CHAdeMO builders offer up units that you can use from home; Charging Solutions - Design Werk - Mobile DC Fast Charger MDC22
Although the above example utilizes 3 phase (requiring a single to 3phase rotary converter motor for single phase home use) - there are single phase home-type units as well. But why bother - on multiple levels . After all - besides the issue above (superchargers getting throttled when excessively used), you could pick up a Model S with dual Chargers & avoid all of the workarounds. and even if you did have all the money in the world, & really really needed to charge at home in 3½ hours, how often is that really necessary anyway.
.

 

[SSedan]

Not to labor the point, but it's not even remotely comparable to gasoline sales. Some folks responding to me are getting hung up on semantics. If you buy a Honda Accord with a gas engine, you can get fuel at any gas station anywhere in the world. It might be high octane. It might be an ethanol blend. It might have branded detergents added. For some reason, New Jersey thinks its residents are too stupid to pump their own gas, and require them to pay an attendant to do it for them. All these differences don't change the basic fact that gasoline has achieved ubiquity and universal compatibility, and EV charging hasn't.

Electricity is ubiquitous UMC has a huge range of adapters. May not be dedicated as EV charging, might only be available at 3-5mph charge rate but in the developed world it is pretty much everwhere.