MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[Turntable666]

Hi ju

I just got the Certificate of Conformity for my Long Range UK/RHD Model 3 VIN 218xxx. The Variant is E5D with an Electric Range of 580 km, meaning it's the LG 75kWh battery pack. The manufacturing date is March 31st. Delivery date scheduled for May 20th.

Has anyone else in the UK got a delivery date this month, and requested their CoC?

just received my COC for M3LR build date of the 1st April , VIN 220xxx delivery 14th May Variant E5D , anyone else in the uk with a COC stating other than E5D?

 

[FredMt]

I’d suggest getting screen shots from owners, as earlier in the thread, to re-establish any new vehicle constants

I recently changed the Überturbine wheels of my TM3P 2021 for 18 " wheels. I mounted the last Michelin Tires Total Performance E-Primacy specially developed for electric SUV vehicles. (Michelin Pilot Sport EV tires are not available at the moment in the dimensions I wanted).

My first range test on a various road trip of 27 km shows a gain of more than 10% compared to the Überturbines. Simply by changing the wheels. Each complete wheel 18" weighs 5,5kg less than Überturbines. I have to consolidate the results because it seems to be a too important gain. I must also do some new comparisons tests at constant speed on highway.

In the car, I changed the configuration of the wheels and selected "Aero Cap Kit (18") that are very close to my rims.

Range on display remains 507km at 100%, and typical as well remains typical of M3P P2021.

@AlanSubie4Life could you tell me if there is a possibility to evaluate consumption constants of my car, knowing that all informations on the energy screen are not all right. Consumption should be right, I suppose.
An idea perhaps not good: Is typical corresponds to the average consumption at a constant speed, on a flat road and about 20 ° Celcius (for example)? I could perhaps drive in these conditions and so get a first assessment.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Range on display remains 507km at 100%, and typical as well remains typical of M3P P2021.

For everything but Performance 2020 vehicles, adjusting wheel type does not adjust the rated line on the consumption screen, to my knowledge. (The reason it changed in 2020 is because Tesla tested & sold all three types of Performance vehicles in 2020 and provided an official EPA rating for each.)

However, as you've discovered, of course wheels (and much more importantly tires, though wheel aero design matters at speed) make a big difference in efficiency.

@AlanSubie4Life could you tell me if there is a possibility to evaluate consumption constants of my car, knowing that all informations on the energy screen are not all right.

You can always just take the projected range*recent efficiency / rated miles remaining to give you the approximate constant for your vehicle. So this is expected.

It won't change depending on wheel configuration unless you have a 2020 Performance, AFAIK.

Is typical corresponds to the average consumption at a constant speed, on a flat road and about 20 ° Celcius (for example)

The rated line is related to the nominal full pack energy of the car when new (a value decided by Tesla, not what SMT or other tools show, though they are pretty close and sometimes match the "FPWN" value exactly - not in 2021 though!!!), divided by the EPA rated miles for that vehicle. So that efficiency line is based on a combination of driving conditions according to the EPA cycle definition, scaled by 0.7 (actually ~0.747). And then for good measure Tesla adds 5Wh/mi or 3Wh/km to this calculated value for the actual line position. (No idea why, though it may have something to do with the 76kWh vs. 77.8kWh discrepancy in 2018 because 77.8kWh/310rmi = 251Wh/rmi and 76kWh/310rmi = 245Wh/rmi. Just a guess though and that wouldn't explain why they're still doing it!)

Since that value includes the buffer, you have to do at least 4.5% better consumption than the constant (even more relative to the line due to the 3Wh/km silly offset) to get "mile-for-rated-mile" rolloff. So in my car the line is at 152Wh/km (76kWh/499rkm) +3Wh/km or so (155Wh/km, 250Wh/mi), and I have to do better than about 144Wh/km to get km-for-rated-km rolloff. In your car the line position is around 162Wh/km, actual constant is ~159Wh/rkm, and you need to do about ~150Wh/km. (I've included an extra 1% loss factor in these calculations because that's just how it works most of the time.)

 

[TomaGo]

Hello @eivissa and @AlanSubie4Life ,

Your explanations are clear, thank you ! The difference in consumption between LR and Performance is still very significant!

Here is the update of the infographic with this latest information.

We just have to confirm :
- The range on screen for the LR 82kWh
- The charging times for all versions with the last firmware

Regards
Thomas

 

[Turntable666]

Hello @eivissa and @AlanSubie4Life ,

Your explanations are clear, thank you ! The difference in consumption between LR and Performance is still very significant!

Here is the update of the infographic with this latest information.

We just have to confirm :
- The range on screen for the LR 82kWh
- The charging times for all versions with the last firmware

Regards
Thomas

View attachment 661502

just to confuse it a bit more, I am picking up a M3LR in the uk with an inventory listing of a 74kwh Panasonic battery pack , the CoC states an E5D and a consumption of 148Wh/km, range of 580km, the Variant on the invoice states an MT315 . where does this fit in?

 

[eivissa]

where does this fit in?

It doesn't I'm afraid.
E5D is the LG long range battery.
The only Model 3 with Panasonic cells currently delivered to the UK is the Performance 2021.

 

[Turntable666]

It doesn't I'm afraid.
E5D is the LG long range battery.
The only Model 3 with Panasonic cells currently delivered to the UK is the Performance 2021.

that is what is confusing me , the build date is the 01/04/21, i have been assured by two different tesla staff in two different conversations that they can see the model stating a Panasonic pack ?? well i will just have to have a look at the sticker once i collect the car

 

[eivissa]

that is what is confusing me , the build date is the 01/04/21, i have been assured by two different tesla staff in two different conversations that they can see the model stating a Panasonic pack ?? well i will just have to have a look at the sticker once i collect the car

Well, Tesla officials stated to the German authorities (Traffic Agency / KBA) that all model 3 Long Range and Performance cars delivered since Q4/2020 (Refresh 2021) have the 82kWh battery. I leave it at that...

It has been repeated several times here, that the sales staff is mostly misinformed and sometimes tends to bend some facts to make sure people go through with their purchase. Can't blame them for the first reason...definitely for the latter.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

that is what is confusing me , the build date is the 01/04/21, i have been assured by two different tesla staff in two different conversations that they can see the model stating a Panasonic pack ?? well i will just have to have a look at the sticker once i collect the car

If you absolutely want the larger capacity pack your only choice is probably to wait at this point. This vehicle probably does not have it, and the timeline is unclear for the new pack. You have to decide what you are ok with and are responsible for making sure you get the vehicle you want. Any statements from employees can safely be ignored, and they have no bearing on which type of car you receive.

 

[FredMt]

You can always just take the projected range*recent efficiency / rated miles remaining to give you the approximate constant for your vehicle. So this is expected.

You are perfectly right as always !
350×169/372=159 Wh /km

So in my car the line is at 152Wh/km (76kWh/499rkm) +3Wh/km or so (155Wh/km, 250Wh/mi), and I have to do better than about 144Wh/km to get km-for-rated-km rolloff.

Thanks you it s perfectly clear
Just to have an idea, do you know roughly at which constant speed with perfect weather, and on flat road you have to drive to obtain 144Wh/km and get km-for-rated-km rolloff.

In your car the line position is around 162Wh/km, actual constant is ~159Wh/rkm, and you need to do about ~150Wh/km. (I've included an extra 1% loss factor in these calculations because that's just how it works most of the time.)

Just for fun and know, on a flat highway, I will try to found constant speed around 150Wh/km, and i will try to adjust to be at level km-for-rated-km rolloff. Not easy to found perfect condition of trafic too, but i will keep it in mind for a future travel.
To go on comparison consumption between Tesla überturbine and my 18" wheels perhaps it could be interesting when I will know the precise speed to put back my überturbine wheels, and drive at this speed and check consumption. I will get the difference in consumption at this constant speed, and I could calculate the difference in range as well. But I don't know if that would be relevant?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Just to have an idea, do you know roughly at which constant speed with perfect weather, and on flat road you have to drive to obtain 144Wh/km and get km-for-rated-km rolloff.

Not sure exactly, maybe 40mph, but depends on which wheels I have installed.

To go on comparison consumption between Tesla überturbine and my 18" wheels perhaps it could be interesting when I will know the precise speed to put back my überturbine wheels, and drive at this speed and check consumption. I will get the difference in consumption at this constant speed, and I could calculate the difference in range as well. But I don't know if that would be reliable?

I don’t want to take this thread too far off topic here (this efficiency topic can be discussed in other threads), but I’d guess your tires and wheels make about a 20Wh/mi (13Wh/km) difference (theoretically the same at most speeds, but at quite high speeds there could be aero effects). It’s dependent on a lot of things, but mostly which specific two tires are being compared. The stock tires on the 2021 I believe are different than what I’m used to (PS4S), so I don’t know exactly how they roll.

13Wh/km would add 45km to your range (driving the car until it stops) in a 2021 Performance at EPA speeds. (552km). Much less increase if you are driving highway speeds.

Theoretically exactly the right tire and wheel combo can add ~88km according to Tesla (maybe). (~595km vs. 507km is my expectation). That would require a 23Wh/km average improvement, 37Wh/mi. Again, real world, highway speeds, more like a 60km improvement (to exhaustion of the battery) with the perfect wheel set.

 

[AAKEE]

Not sure exactly, maybe 40mph, but depends on which wheels I have installed.



I don’t want to take this thread too far off topic here (this efficiency topic can be discussed in other threads), but I’d guess your tires and wheels make about a 20Wh/mi (13Wh/km) difference (theoretically the same at most speeds, but at quite high speeds there could be aero effects). It’s dependent on a lot of things, but mostly which specific two tires are being compared. The stock tires on the 2021 I believe are different than what I’m used to (PS4S), so I don’t know exactly how they roll.

13Wh/km would add 45km to your range (driving the car until it stops) in a 2021 Performance at EPA speeds. (552km). Much less increase if you are driving highway speeds.

Theoretically exactly the right tire and wheel combo can add ~88km according to Tesla (maybe). (~595km vs. 507km is my expectation). That would require a 23Wh/km average improvement, 37Wh/mi. Again, real world, highway speeds, more like a 60km improvement (to exhaustion of the battery) with the perfect wheel set.

What about the tail spoiler ? probably also does increase the downforce and with that a little higher drag. (Reason for thinking it isnt only comsetic is that I saw some making a statement that it is needed for Tesla to approve top speeds over some limit(dont remember that number).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What about the tail spoiler ? probably also does increase the downforce and with that a little higher drag. (Reason for thinking it isnt only comsetic is that I saw some making a statement that it is needed for Tesla to approve top speeds over some limit(dont remember that number).

Not really sure, but I ran with and without a spoiler “back in the day” -and I did not see any appreciable difference, though these things are very difficult to quantify without controlled environments. Undoubtedly it makes a difference, I just don’t think it is very significant. Remember the Performance is 1cm lower too, and that should help. Again, doubt it makes a huge difference at speeds of interest. The difference is nearly all wheel aero (not weight) and tire rolling resistance. There is also a certain amount of randomness in the EPA test results (probably 1% or so - no idea), since even a controlled environment cannot account for random vehicle differences.

I think the spoiler was required to get approval for max speed of 162mph instead of 155mph. At least that was the rumor. Hard to verify, though I think some people tried. I imagine the spoiler does make a difference in efficiency and downforce at that speed, though I’d be worried about mine coming off since the Mobile Service didn’t put it on properly and it is lifting on one side. Has to be well attached if it is going to do anything!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

~595km vs. 507km is my expectation

The 595km is in reference to the regular LR with 82kWh pack, of course...

I do wonder if Tesla will really try to stretch things to get 600km EPA (373 rated miles). Psychologically significant, though the relevant bar is 370 miles (595km) in the US...anyway, with alleged new motor windings at some point, etc...might be able to do it...

82kWh/136Wh/km = 603km... so they would have to dig deeper into that pack than they currently are, unless they get better rated efficiency...

We’ll see!

 

[Candleflame]

Not sure exactly, maybe 40mph, but depends on which wheels I have installed.



I don’t want to take this thread too far off topic here (this efficiency topic can be discussed in other threads), but I’d guess your tires and wheels make about a 20Wh/mi (13Wh/km) difference (theoretically the same at most speeds, but at quite high speeds there could be aero effects). It’s dependent on a lot of things, but mostly which specific two tires are being compared. The stock tires on the 2021 I believe are different than what I’m used to (PS4S), so I don’t know exactly how they roll.

13Wh/km would add 45km to your range (driving the car until it stops) in a 2021 Performance at EPA speeds. (552km). Much less increase if you are driving highway speeds.

Theoretically exactly the right tire and wheel combo can add ~88km according to Tesla (maybe). (~595km vs. 507km is my expectation). That would require a 23Wh/km average improvement, 37Wh/mi. Again, real world, highway speeds, more like a 60km improvement (to exhaustion of the battery) with the perfect wheel set.

I used to do a lot of outback journeys with ac charging only. I get like 140wh/km even with AC going on lv 5 driving like 80kmh which is 50mph.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I used to do a lot of outback journeys with ac charging only. I get like 140wh/km even with AC going on lv 5 driving like 80kmh which is 50mph.

Yeah, I can't remember if you have Performance or not (I was quoting with PS4S). Either way, that wouldn't surprise me much. Goes up pretty quickly from there though. AC contribution goes down with speed of course.

 

[FredMt]

E3LD Capacity is difficult, but Full Pack When New value seems confusing in comparison to the other cars. 80,5 would be a fair value, 81,4 would be a realistic maximum. Range effectively seems to drop when going below 80,4...

I totally agree with the idea that there's is no reason to have a different configuration of pack "82 kWh" capacity in LR vs Perf.
But like you said, NFP values are at the moment little confusing...
Some users report a NFP around I would say 79,6 kWh.
For exemple just above MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc . I have report too 2 SAV pack in LR with same reference on sticker (CB 1104423-00-T) and further by end of december, 1st pack where we discover this reference for the first time ( @ Arnaudc06 pack ).
Some case has been discussed on this forum, i have one more SAV on my side, but no real difference between 1st pack SAV "82kWh" identified here.
All of these packs have around 79,6kWh, and i dont understand why. Difficult to say it s only a question of cells balance.

WLTP Range is advertised as 614km,

The second point which does not seem consistent to me is the wltp value displayed by Tesla for the LR E3LD (614km) regarding to the E5D or E3CD value (580km).
We know that on LR2021 around 75kWh provides 580wltp. As we are with the same vehicle ( or very very near), i think (but perhaps i m wrong) that we can in this case apply a rule of proportion. So with 614wltp that would give around 79.4 kWh. @AlanSubie4Life was talking about EPA homologation, but perhaps we could have some analyse on wltp value because it s available now for Europe LR E3LD.


In conclusion i would like to say that all of this may be coincidence, but it may not. I am impatient to see the results of the measurements of the CB 1104423-00-T pack on LR (not only in SAV case). And perhaps a new pack reference?

 

[TimothyHW3]

Tesla for the LR E3LD (614km) regarding to the E5D or E3CD value (580km).

I have a gut feeling that Tesla will lock these new LR batteries too. Maybe lock them to about 79kWh. We will see.

I just found an interesting video of a US model 3 LR 2021 delivered the last couple of days. He says "in May" and it was posted yesterday. He blocks the VIN so I can't see it, but maybe someone can ask him about the VIN in the comments.

It seems the car still displays 353 miles so I guess the Model 3 LR delivered in the states continue to either use the old batteries or are soft locked too.

 

[Ofarlig]

I have a gut feeling that Tesla will lock these new LR batteries too. Maybe lock them to about 79kWh. We will see.

I just found an interesting video of a US model 3 LR 2021 delivered the last couple of days. He says "in May" and it was posted yesterday. He blocks the VIN so I can't see it, but maybe someone can ask him about the VIN in the comments.

It seems the car still displays 353 miles so I guess the Model 3 LR delivered in the states continue to either use the old batteries or are soft locked too.

The weird part about the new LR batteries is that they register WLTP at 640 km in the government papers. I really wonder what will happen with these batteries. Tesla sells them with a higher WLTP than previously but registers them with an even higher WLTP…

 

[TimothyHW3]

The weird part about the new LR batteries is that they register WLTP at 640 km in the government papers. I really wonder what will happen with these batteries. Tesla sells them with a higher WLTP than previously but registers them with an even higher WLTP…

We will know pretty soon. 580 to 615 is roughly or almost exactly 6%. That is roughly 79.5/80kWh to about 75kWh locked Panasonic or LG. The paperwork states lower consumption than the 580 documents though, 147 vs 148. All a big mystery.

If only the US people would mind telling us what their full charge is and their VIN and production dates. At some point Tesla will stop selling cars in Europe, because we ask too many questions