MASTER THREAD: Comprehensive Road-Course Modification Guide — Optimizing the 3 for the track

[MasterC17]

Exactly why I wanted to talk with the folks here about them. I had planned to run between about -2 and -3 on street vs track.

Was considering aligning it at about the -2 degree camber mark if that allowed me to not change the toe much for track days.

Trying to find a good balance between performance and how much setup I would need to do each track event for my daily driver.

With the stiffer suspension there should be less body roll. Are others With MPP sport coilovers and upper camber arms running the max camber the plates will allow?

I'm running roughly -2.5 degrees of camber all around on both cars. This has worked well for me and tire wear on the street and on the track is doing fine. I'm running 0 toe in the front and .25 in the rear. Using no shims and adjusting the FUCA mounts I found to be the best solution.

 

[mattack4000]

I don’t have suspension, all I can get is 1.8 degree of camber I. The front

 

[subieworx]

Anyone have the brake pad shape for the Model 3 Performance? I can't imagine that these pads do not already exist from Hawk.

 

[MasterC17]

Anyone have the brake pad shape for the Model 3 Performance? I can't imagine that these pads do not already exist from Hawk.

They are unique and do not share pad shapes with any other models. Hawk pads are also atrocious for a heavy car like the Model 3. I strongly recommend you look elsewhere.

 

[dfwatt]

They are unique and do not share pad shapes with any other models. Hawk pads are also atrocious for a heavy car like the Model 3. I strongly recommend you look elsewhere.

Curious what you would recommend as a dual purpose pad. Something not too radical but can tolerate an occasional track day?

 

[subieworx]

They are unique and do not share pad shapes with any other models. Hawk pads are also atrocious for a heavy car like the Model 3. I strongly recommend you look elsewhere.

Who makes the calipers? Brembo? Akebono? Unless Tesla made the calipers the pads shape is shared.

I've never had problems with Hawks on any of my heavier race cars. I do tend to prefer Raybestos and PFC though.

 

[MasterC17]

Who makes the calipers? Brembo? Akebono? Unless Tesla made the calipers the pads shape is shared.

I've never had problems with Hawks on any of my heavier race cars. I do tend to prefer Raybestos and PFC though.

They are made by Brembo but I am 99.9% certain no other vehicle shares the pad shapes (trust me we've spent the last 2 years searching). The Calipers were specifically designed for Tesla (Rear EPB, reduced friction pistons, etc).

The Model S front calipers on the other hand share a common pad shape.

I ran a pair of Hawk DTC-70's with Model S Calipers/Rotors on the front axle and they wore out in 2 events. Raybestos ST-45's were trending towards 8+ events. PFC is great if you are willing to spend a little extra, I've been very happy with Raybestos though.

 

[subieworx]

I run ST-45's on many of my race cars and customer's race cars. Definitely a favorite.

I have quite a few contacts in the brake pad industry. Need to get my hands on some to have something made.

 

[subieworx]

Random question: how long does the charge tend to last when on track? I am going to Mid Ohio for the first time next Friday and quite curious to see the results. There is a supercharger about 15 miles from the track so I will be able to get some charge mid day, but I have no idea what to expect.

 

[mattack4000]

You have to charge every session. You can run an entire session, but car will be slow after 1.75 laps. I don’t think you will get 2 at mid Ohio. Car will still be fast at low state of charge, but it feels like a Mini Cooper s at that point. Mid Ohio is how intensive, you are likely looking at 5 sec between lap 1 and lap 4. (2 hot laps, 1 cool and 1 hot)

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I run ST-45's on many of my race cars and customer's race cars. Definitely a favorite.

I have quite a few contacts in the brake pad industry. Need to get my hands on some to have something made.

Once you speak to them you'll find what we've found. The pads are not common.
RB, Endless, Carbotech have all made front and rear pads to fit the Model 3 Performance and within those pad manufacturers you'll find a suitable pad I'm sure. For short tracks, the Carbotech XP10s are great and work fine on the street too, but some prefer more of an endurance pad for the longer, faster tracks.

 

[MasterC17]

Random question: how long does the charge tend to last when on track? I am going to Mid Ohio for the first time next Friday and quite curious to see the results. There is a supercharger about 15 miles from the track so I will be able to get some charge mid day, but I have no idea what to expect.

Honestly, it really depends on how hard you are pushing it, and there are two factors to consider. This being your first time out in the car, you will probably consume 1,300-1,400wH/Mi. So, figure you are running high 1:40 lap times, you could probably run about 50 minutes or ~25 laps on a 90-0% charge.

However, you power will also drop off as your State of Charge decreases, you can see that graphed here (Tesla Performance Model 3 Dyno Testing At Various SOC | Mountain Pass Performance)

Additionally, you will be fighting drive unit overheating. This is dependent on Ambient Temps (it's worse when hot, of course). I average about 10 minutes (so like 4 laps at Mid Ohio) before power is meaningfully decreased. Of course, this also is dependent on how hard you are driving the car.

As others stated, you will want to Supercharge between sessions and (CRITICALLY) you will want to run Track Mode in the paddock for 15 minutes before each session (Supercharging generates A TON of heat).

With a Supercharger only 15 minutes away this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[MoreAgain]

two factors to consider. power will also drop off as your State of Charge decreases, drive unit overheating.

It would be interesting to test these two factors independently. The SoC impact is well documented based on MPP dyno findings, but I wonder if anyone has isolated the power impact based solely on the overheating.

 

[mattack4000]

I was lapping 5 sec slower at Laguna

 

[mattack4000]

I was lapping 5 sec slower at Laguna

This is a pretty good indicator to SOC/heat vs lap times.

 

[Adrian Cockcroft]

I ran Laguna Seca yesterday in my stock M3P. Fastest lap was 1:52. It was a fairly cool day and the car didn’t overheat too much. I also skipped a session and went to the Monterey supercharger (10miles away) for a 66KW top up. I’m not looking to change the car (I have a Lotus Elise as my usual track car), but I didn’t do anything other than turn on Track Mode. I left the tire pressures at 40lbs and think I should have dropped them. Haven’t seen any advice on pressures for the stock M3P, should I try 30 or 35 next time? In addition, the USB stick I was using to record track mode crapped out after a few laps and corrupted the video. I managed to repair it to see some of the session. What do people use to get higher performance video recording?

 

[MarcG]

This is a pretty good indicator to SOC/heat vs lap times.

Thanks for sharing! Was that you driving?
I’m assuming the data came from the CSV that Track Mode saves.
What software was used to display the data overlay on the video?

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I ran Laguna Seca yesterday in my stock M3P. Fastest lap was 1:52. It was a fairly cool day and the car didn’t overheat too much. I also skipped a session and went to the Monterey supercharger (10miles away) for a 66KW top up. I’m not looking to change the car (I have a Lotus Elise as my usual track car), but I didn’t do anything other than turn on Track Mode. I left the tire pressures at 40lbs and think I should have dropped them. Haven’t seen any advice on pressures for the stock M3P, should I try 30 or 35 next time? In addition, the USB stick I was using to record track mode crapped out after a few laps and corrupted the video. I managed to repair it to see some of the session. What do people use to get higher performance video recording?

Were you monitoring the pressures to see what they got up to on track?
Pressures with a stock car are going to be a compromise between saving the shoulders from premature wear vs. recommended operating window for that particular tyre. The PS4S is designed to work best at 33-40psi. I've not used that tyre much on track but have tended to aim for 40-42 max. hot pressure to try and save the shoulders.

Use a SSD instead of a memory stick and you'll have no trouble. A lot of are using the Samsung T5 as it works very well and doesn't overheat even when constantly in use.

 

[MasterC17]

It would be interesting to test these two factors independently. The SoC impact is well documented based on MPP dyno findings, but I wonder if anyone has isolated the power impact based solely on the overheating.

It's certainly vastly more than the SoC impact. I like to call it "Miata Mode", because you basically become the slowest car (in a straight line) on the track haha!

 

[Adrian Cockcroft]

Were you monitoring the pressures to see what they got up to on track?
Pressures with a stock car are going to be a compromise between saving the shoulders from premature wear vs. recommended operating window for that particular tyre. The PS4S is designed to work best at 33-40psi. I've not used that tyre much on track but have tended to aim for 40-42 max. hot pressure to try and save the shoulders.

Use a SSD instead of a memory stick and you'll have no trouble. A lot of are using the Samsung T5 as it works very well and doesn't overheat even when constantly in use.

thanks I ordered a Samsung T7, and I’ll try dropping the pressure to 35 cold next time, and work up from there. The pressures were 41 cold and 43 hot on the track.