Let's ignore all the rest, and go purely with aesthetics. Does anybody spend $40k on a a gas car that looks like the Bolt? We know people spend $40k on cars that look like the Ξ. While I'm personally not quite that shallow... it is what it is.
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Let's ignore all the rest, and go purely with aesthetics. Does anybody spend $40k on a a gas car that looks like the Bolt? We know people spend $40k on cars that look like the Ξ. While I'm personally not quite that shallow... it is what it is.
Kurt Foster
Zero FX Stealthfighter
The Comparison is fairly simple:
Chevy Bolt
200 Miles
0-60 under 7 seconds
GM killed the electric car before...
need i say more?
Chevy Bolt
200 Miles
0-60 under 7 seconds
GM killed the electric car before...
need i say more?
When both vehicles are out and the media starts doing their usual test drives, comparisons, etc... I will use this as my personal litmus test of the trust-worthiness of the reporter/news source.
If they do a point to point review of Model 3 vs. Bolt, they will IMHO, be FOS, as the two vehicles are in distinctly different automobile classes. Only thing similar will be EV and price point (if they explicitly state that is the only reason they are comparing the two, then I'll give them a shrug).
If they compare Model 3 vs. Bolt vs. BMW 3, Audi A4, etc... Then I will consider that media outlet/reporter more reliable.
One always has to check on the biases and agenda of the messenger. Just saying.
If they do a point to point review of Model 3 vs. Bolt, they will IMHO, be FOS, as the two vehicles are in distinctly different automobile classes. Only thing similar will be EV and price point (if they explicitly state that is the only reason they are comparing the two, then I'll give them a shrug).
If they compare Model 3 vs. Bolt vs. BMW 3, Audi A4, etc... Then I will consider that media outlet/reporter more reliable.
One always has to check on the biases and agenda of the messenger. Just saying.
I work with many different automakers and their sub-tier suppliers. An NDA prevents me from saying Tesla or SpaceX though, I can neither confirm or deny it. I've been in manufacturing for 39 years, so I've watched the parade for awhile.
I was around when REALLY ugly cars were all around, and when GM, Ford, Dodge, and American Motors were actually making shitty cars. Like all technology, things change.
Ok, so I used hyperbole but...
Size? Maybe if we are going off of guesses on wheelbase
Specification? Only if your talking about interior space and only range is you believe GM's over-inflated estimates and Tesla's reserved guess at this point
Direct Competition? Besides being an EV (Which being an EV for EV sake is why they haven't been adopted widely yet) they are literally like comparing a Porsche 911 a bad Kia Soul.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Except in this case the 911 and Soul both sell for about $35,000, which makes them direct market competitors, competing for the same money from the same customers (we'll ignore the size/utility/seating differences between the two for the moment). Comparing things that serve the same purpose and cost the same price is a pretty normal thing to do.
That comparison may result in an overwhelming favor for one option or the other, but the idea that these cars shouldn't even be compared to begin with is rife with stupidity.
As an early adopter of computer technology, let me help you out. Ever since before computer monitors existed, and the baud rate was 110, we came up with symbols that relayed concepts like sarcasm or emotions. Try them out sometime. They were a clever invention for those who require sarcasm to communicate.
You're either for electromotive powertrains or against them. Simple.
And that there is the amazing part! My "comparison" was Honda Fit with an Audi A4 - both gas cars in the same general car types that we're discussing. The two cars are purchased for different reasons, and their price tags are quite different. If we tallied up the sales of both of these not-in-the-same-class-and-wouldn't-be-compared gas cars as-is, and then we jiggered it so that the Audi was sold at a $10k discount, and the Fit was sold with a $2500 premium... what would happen?
My guess is that more A4's would be sold, and fewer Fits would be sold. But the big question: Would they now be "compared" and reviewed together merely because their prices were in the same ballpark, and they both burn gasoline?
Huge props for using "rife" in a sentence. My first thought:
Yeow. That's tragically malicious!
Though it would be great if it were this simple... it isn't. This implies that anybody who wants to promote battery electric transportation would also wish to promote fuel cell transportation. It also implies that the makers of compliance cars should receive the same support as those companies who are TRULY trying to change our transportation mix for the better.
I've been doing this a good long time, and it has definitely not been as simple as "you're either with us or against us."
Plus, there will always be the agnostics, and that's OK too. There are some Model S buyers who plunked down the big money on that car NOT because they are "for electromotive powertrains" but because they wanted to own the best car available. And it just happened to be electric.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Just thinking about the different market segments that might be in play:
- CUV buyers: Bolt is probably not in the list because of the price, Tesla not of the shopping list
- EV buyers: Tesla
- EV buyers who are GM fans: Bolt. All 2000 of them
- Sporty'ish car buyers: Tesla will get consideration
As an early adopter of computer technology, let me help you out. Ever since before computer monitors existed, and the baud rate was 110, we came up with symbols that relayed concepts like sarcasm or emotions. Try them out sometime. They were a clever invention for those who require sarcasm to communicate.
You're either for electromotive powertrains or against them. Simple.
Thanks for your "help" but I wasn't interested in that either. What's the symbol for GFY?
Why can't someone be pro EV but anti-GM? They had an electric car once, remember? They eventually took them all back and destroyed them. Pretending to lead the way by beating Tesla to the market with a sub par EV isn't exactly redeeming.
So no, it's not that simple.
I should take a different angle on this to possibly clear up some confusion.
The two cars will inevitably be compared for what we can all agree are two main features: pricing range. My issue is not with that… It is with the concept that they are equals in the marketplace because of price and range. When all other aspects of the car are effectively ignored, a disservice is done to the company that is trying the hardest.
The Bolt is designed to be an electric car that can go farther on a charge than most other electric cars on the market. The Model 3 is designed to be an attractive, high performance fantastic car in the midsize, mid lux category. And it also happens to be electric, and can go farther on a charge than most other electric cars on the market... Likely with options to go much further and with much better performance.
The two cars will inevitably be compared for what we can all agree are two main features: pricing range. My issue is not with that… It is with the concept that they are equals in the marketplace because of price and range. When all other aspects of the car are effectively ignored, a disservice is done to the company that is trying the hardest.
The Bolt is designed to be an electric car that can go farther on a charge than most other electric cars on the market. The Model 3 is designed to be an attractive, high performance fantastic car in the midsize, mid lux category. And it also happens to be electric, and can go farther on a charge than most other electric cars on the market... Likely with options to go much further and with much better performance.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Per your request, the terminal era GFY smiley:
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...
You're welcome!
You do realize that Honda (and others) crushed their EVs too right?
And that the company most known as being Green, Toyota, has had their upper management insist that EVs are a waste of time?
The reality is that until we see tons of EV options out there, they will all be compared against each other. So, this is the state we are in until more EVs are on the market.
I will probably get thrown off this forum, but I did recommend a coworker check out the Chevy Bolt over a Model 3. He was looking for an efficient city car that his wife could drive around town and eventually give to their daughter in 3 years once she turns 16. A 200 mile range BEV would basically ensure that his wife never has to rely on the public charging network, and she can still drive down to LA and back if needed (which she couldn't do in a Leaf). The hatchback will be more practical for her hauling stuff around while running errands. The Bolt WILL have a $7500 tax credit easily available when it comes out plus the $2500 CA rebate making it a very affordable car for what they want to do with it. The lower performance specs vs the Model 3 are perfect for the eventual 16 year old driving it. And he is looking to buy a car this year, which is another factor.
I will probably get thrown off this forum, but I did recommend a coworker check out the Chevy Bolt over a Model 3. He was looking for an efficient city car that his wife could drive around town and eventually give to their daughter in 3 years once she turns 16. A 200 mile range BEV would basically ensure that his wife never has to rely on the public charging network, and she can still drive down to LA and back if needed (which she couldn't do in a Leaf). The hatchback will be more practical for her hauling stuff around while running errands. The Bolt WILL have a $7500 tax credit easily available when it comes out plus the $2500 CA rebate making it a very affordable car for what they want to do with it. The lower performance specs vs the Model 3 are perfect for the eventual 16 year old driving it. And he is looking to buy a car this year, which is another factor.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I wish that bit of FUD would not be repeated on TMC -- I have higher expectations here than the standard fare say at the gm-volt forum.
Toyota has said that they expect fuel cell and electric plug-ins to co-exist for a long time, and they expect to continue developing each. Their real point was that they see a long and rich future for the hybrid (electric) drivetrain, in some cars with H2 as the "source" fuel and in some cars with a rechargeable battery.
I'm not so sure that they are right given the rapid decrease in Li-x battery prices but time will tell.
If he must have the car this year AND it has to be an EV, then he is pretty much stuck with the bolt. I still think this is a bad idea since GM can't make a decent, long lasting economy car to save their life... why would anyone trust their first stab at a "budget friendly" based on still developing technology?? It boggles my mind.
Aside from this, there are way better ICE cars for the money even considering the tax credits. Another thing to consider is the safety rating since he plans to pass it down.
I'm in the same boat as your friend. I plan to sell my mustang for a newer civic and drive that until model 3 is delivered. At that I'll be passing the civic down to my daughter. She'd love to have the mustang instead but it's neither safe or reliable enough in my opinion.
