Mercedes approved for ACTUAL self driving in the USA. And will accept responsibility.

[Tam]

It's the opposite actually...

I guess Europe didn't like Tesla Auto Lane Change in 2022:

"Reports in Germany state that regulators are investigating Tesla Autopilot’s auto lane change feature, which may be considered illegal in Europe."

Tesla is facing scrutiny over Autopilot's auto lane change feature, may be considered illegal in Europe

Reports in Germany state that regulators are investigating Tesla Autopilot’s auto lane change feature, which may be considered illegal in...

electrek.co

Thus, it is not surprised that Mercedes also withheld the feature in Europe while that feature is not questioned and available in North America in 2022.

 

[stopcrazypp]

One yes from Canada:

"I am in Canada and have an EQE SUV. It initiates lane changes on its own, ... "

The 2023 article says EQ series in North America already has had it, and now it's Europe's turn to get it:

Mercedes-Benz introduces "Automatic Lane Change" function for European market | Automotive World

New feature enables automatic overtaking of slower vehicles

www.automotiveworld.com

"Automatic Lane Change, or ALC, is already available in C-Class, E-Class and S-Class, as well as all Mercedes‑Benz EQ series vehicles being sold in the U.S. and Canada."

This person in the US says they don't have it in their EQS:
"I enabled all the driver assistance features and it still requires me to initiate the lane change using the turn signal! it won't do auto lane change by itself as you explained -

I am wondering if anyone in the US has the self-auto lane change feature."

Another:
"To me it seems like so far 2022 models have the fully automatic lane changing and 2023 models only have manually activated automatic lane changes."

Another EQS in US without it:
"Did a highway drive with my 2023 eqs 580 suv (software 329) and it for sure doesn't have auto lane change. It will change lanes when I signal but not on its own. I tried setting cruise to speed limit, staying behind slow cars intentionally etc but nothing worked.

I wonder for those in US where this works, if it is region enabled similar to level 3 that will be available in CA only."

"AFAIK, only the EQE SUV has automatic lane change as described in this video:"

"apparently, it's available in the US now but only on selected EQE cars! I am wondering if this can be added to the EQS."

I hate to quote so many comments, but it's necessary to show the thread doesn't match your characterization.

Also shows you can't rely fully on press releases to be accurate. I remember there was similar arguments about BMW's features and it took a long while before the actual cars got it, vs the press release.

 

[Tam]

This person in the US says they don't have it in their EQS:
"I enabled all the driver assistance features and it still requires me to initiate the lane change using the turn signal! it won't do auto lane change by itself as you explained -

I am wondering if anyone in the US has the self-auto lane change feature."

Another:
"To me it seems like so far 2022 models have the fully automatic lane changing and 2023 models only have manually activated automatic lane changes."

Another EQS in US without it:
"Did a highway drive with my 2023 eqs 580 suv (software 329) and it for sure doesn't have auto lane change. It will change lanes when I signal but not on its own. I tried setting cruise to speed limit, staying behind slow cars intentionally etc but nothing worked.

I wonder for those in US where this works, if it is region enabled similar to level 3 that will be available in CA only."

"AFAIK, only the EQE SUV has automatic lane change as described in this video:"

"apparently, it's available in the US now but only on selected EQE cars! I am wondering if this can be added to the EQS."

I hate to quote so many comments, but it's necessary to show the thread doesn't match your characterization.

Also shows you can't rely fully on press releases to be accurate. I remember there was similar arguments about BMW's features and it took a long while before the actual cars go it, vs the press release.

The forum link is full of confused people who don't even know the settings to turn it on.

A 2024 UK article supports the confusion: Europe didn't have it while the US has had it but it's arriving in Europe:

"If you specify a C-Class, E-Class, S-Class or any electric EQ model with Merc’s Active Distance Assist and Active Steering Assist in its Distronic cruise control, ALC is included. It’s been available for a while in the US and Canada, and now it’s arriving in Europe."

Driving made smarter? We test Mercedes' latest automatic lane change tech

The next level of automated Mercedes driving? Letting the car overtake and change lane for you.

www.carmagazine.co.uk

That sounds more like it because Tesla Auto Lane Change was investigated for the potential being "illegal" in Europe in 2022:

Auto lane change could make Tesla Autopilot illegal in Europe

 

[stopcrazypp]

The forum link is full of confused people who don't even know the settings to turn it on.

The people claim they turned on the settings yet it doesn't work. They can initiate the lane change with the turn signal, but the car never changes by itself.

A 2024 UK article supports the confusion: Europe didn't have it while the US has had it but it's arriving in Europe:

"If you specify a C-Class, E-Class, S-Class or any electric EQ model with Merc’s Active Distance Assist and Active Steering Assist in its Distronic cruise control, ALC is included. It’s been available for a while in the US and Canada, and now it’s arriving in Europe."

Driving made smarter? We test Mercedes' latest automatic lane change tech

The next level of automated Mercedes driving? Letting the car overtake and change lane for you.

www.carmagazine.co.uk

That sounds more like it because Tesla Auto Lane Change was investigated for the potential being "illegal" in Europe in 2022:

Auto lane change could make Tesla Autopilot illegal in Europe

Maybe Europe got it later, but the thread seems to show as of 2023 certain models in the US (notably the EQS, which is the only model to get the L3 system so far) still didn't have it.

 

[Tam]

The people claim they turned on the settings yet it doesn't work. They can initiate the lane change with the turn signal, but the car never changes by itself.

Maybe Europe got it later, but the thread seems to show as of 2023 certain models in the US (notably the EQS, which is the only model to get the L3 system so far) still didn't have it.

Here's Automatic Lane Change from USA Mercedes company on 7/31/2023:

Here's from an owner on the roads that look like North America on 6/22/2023:

Here's from an owner on the roads that look like North America highway interchanges in 6/2/2024:

 

[Dewg]

Is the lane change discussion about L2 or L3? According to Mercedes' Drive Pilot (L3):

Can DRIVE PILOT change lanes?​

DRIVE PILOT does not change lanes or take into account upcoming route guidance. Please deactivate the system to change lanes or follow route guidance as necessary.

 

[Tam]

Is the lane change discussion about L2 or L3? According to Mercedes' Drive Pilot (L3):

Correct. Mercedes doesn't want L3 to cause fatalities that would got it stuck with the L3 liability compensation so it wants to do all kinds of restrictions on L3, including a ban on automatic lane change even when Europe law now allows.

On the other hand, it doesn't have to pay for L2 fatalities so all you can Auto Lane Change in L2. It won't pay for an L2 funeral!

This Auto Lane Change comes up because people erroneously think that when L3 bans Auto Lane Change, that also means a ban on L2 Auto Lane Change.

No. L3 and L2 are separate. L2 is more liberal. L3 is much more restricted. But you do have a choice of using liberal L2 or very restricted L3.

If you want to do Auto Lane Change, you need to turn off L3 and activate L2.

Turn off this L3 then turn on that L2 is a way of reminding driver that: Is the robot in charge or a person in charge? And who pays for fatalities.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Here's Automatic Lane Change from USA Mercedes company on 7/31/2023:

That's the EQE, which people didn't dispute has the ability. The EQE however doesn't have the L3 package available.

Here's from an owner on the roads that look like North America on 6/22/2023:

At 1:36 he clarifies that he put the indicator to initiate the change. That once again is not the function that is desired (the OP in the complaint thread has that feature). The feature missing is the car changing lanes according to the navigation like NoA does.

Here's from an owner on the roads that look like North America highway interchanges in 6/2/2024:

The person clearly put their hand on the turn signal prior to the lane change, which is exactly the issue. It's not the same as NoA, where it changes lanes based on navigation.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Is the lane change discussion about L2 or L3? According to Mercedes' Drive Pilot (L3):

The lane change discussion is talking about L2. The claim by @Tam is that the cars with the L3 system still has an L2 system equivalent to NoA. I'm pointing out that doesn't appear to be the case, given people with the EQS (the only model so far in the US to get the L3 system) complained it doesn't appear to have the ability to change lanes according to navigation.

They only have the ability to do driver initiated auto lane changes (like old school AP1), not to change lanes according to navigation.

 

[enemji]

No. L3 and L2 are separate. L2 is more liberal. L3 is much more restricted. But you do have a choice of using liberal L2 or very restricted L3.

This.
This is what everyone who claims HD maps approach with a defined (restricted) ODD is the real way to go, will be finding out that it is unreal to implement.

 

[spacecoin]

I guess Europe didn't like Tesla Auto Lane Change in 2022:

"Reports in Germany state that regulators are investigating Tesla Autopilot’s auto lane change feature, which may be considered illegal in Europe."

Tesla is facing scrutiny over Autopilot's auto lane change feature, may be considered illegal in Europe

Reports in Germany state that regulators are investigating Tesla Autopilot’s auto lane change feature, which may be considered illegal in...

electrek.co

Thus, it is not surprised that Mercedes also withheld the feature in Europe while that feature is not questioned and available in North America in 2022.

In most parts of the world outside of the Americas, Level 2 is regulated in UNECE R79. That standard doesn't allow for system initiated lane changes and nor does the upcoming DCAS regulation. Level 3 is regulated in UNECE R157 (autonomous driving up to 130 km/h).

Tesla NoA was taking exits and onramps automatically, but not changing lanes while on the highway when I bought the car back in 2019. It was later deemed to be a violation of the spec.

 

[enemji]

I guess Europe didn't like Tesla Auto Lane Change in 2022:

"Reports in Germany state that regulators are investigating Tesla Autopilot’s auto lane change feature, which may be considered illegal in Europe."

Tesla is facing scrutiny over Autopilot's auto lane change feature, may be considered illegal in Europe

Reports in Germany state that regulators are investigating Tesla Autopilot’s auto lane change feature, which may be considered illegal in...

electrek.co

Thus, it is not surprised that Mercedes also withheld the feature in Europe while that feature is not questioned and available in North America in 2022.

Now that is what misuse of power would look like.

 

[Tam]

Now that is what misuse of power would look like.

Lane change is no big deal to Tesla.

However, "at least 33 percent of all crashes happen when vehicles change lanes or veer off the road."

The decision making choice prioritizing robots can be fatal as displayed in 2 Boeing 737 Max MCAS crashes. The US said it's no big deal but the whole world, including Canada, forbid those planes to fly. Only then, the US joined the world to ground those planes.

Thus, it is reasonable for the EU to question whether the robots are competent to make the decision for a lane change then blames human drivers when its L2 causes accidents.

 

[enemji]

Lane change is no big deal to Tesla.

However, "at least 33 percent of all crashes happen when vehicles change lanes or veer off the road."

The decision making choice prioritizing robots can be fatal as displayed in 2 Boeing 737 Max MCAS crashes. The US said it's no big deal but the whole world, including Canada, forbid those planes to fly. Only then, the US joined the world to ground those planes.

Thus, it is reasonable for the EU to question whether the robots are competent to make the decision for a lane change then blames human drivers when its L2 causes accidents.

A good intention is marked as illegal because of someone elses poor implementation? I still stand by my comment "Now that is what misuse of power would look like." Question it, investigate it. But making it illegal?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Lane change is no big deal to Tesla.

However, "at least 33 percent of all crashes happen when vehicles change lanes or veer off the road."

On the flip side, 67% happen when not, according to the same metric. Also reading the article, the issue is people being distracted and unintentionally changing lanes or veering off the road.

That doesn't relate to NoA. NoA is deliberately changing lanes as necessary, not doing it randomly. AP also generally does a great job keeping the car in the lane, even through extreme curves, whereas I see plenty of examples of other systems struggling or failing (even throwing the car into oncoming traffic lanes) because they have limited steering range (some of it ironically may be because of the same EU/UN regulations).

The decision making choice prioritizing robots can be fatal as displayed in 2 Boeing 737 Max MCAS crashes. The US said it's no big deal but the whole world, including Canada, forbid those planes to fly. Only then, the US joined the world to ground those planes.

FAA didn't ground until they found evidence connecting the first case and did so 3 days later. China was the first to ground it and the last to unground it, yet that doesn't necessarily mean they are the most safety oriented agency (they don't necessarily treat their own domestic makes the same way).

Thus, it is reasonable for the EU to question whether the robots are competent to make the decision for a lane change then blames human drivers when its L2 causes accidents.

The decision is fully supervised, just like how decisions to accelerate or brake are supervised.

 

[Dewg]

Not sure what the discussion is about - ADAS and AVs will cause accidents - period. There is no such thing as foolproof, accident-free computer-aided driving. So, if you, or governments, are waiting for flawless ADAS/AVs, then they're just passing the buck to the next administration, hoping they can campaign on "saving lives" from "evil technology".

Planes fall out of the sky, trains derail, space shuttles explode - doesn't mean we cower in a cave until something is perfect before we embrace it. To borrow a phrase from medicine: "Your doctor prescribed a drug with side effects because they feel the benefits outweigh the risks"

 

[enemji]

Lane change is no big deal to Tesla.

However, "at least 33 percent of all crashes happen when vehicles change lanes or veer off the road."

This needs to reworded

"at least 33 percent of all crashes happen when people change lanes or veer off the road."

1. People do not know how to adjust their mirrors
2. People do not even adjust their mirrors on multi-driver vehicles such as rental vehicles, and kids using parents vehicles, and even spouses using the same vehicle.
3. People do not even pay attention to the mirrors. They just change lanes at the last second because they see their exit coming and going.
4. People feel the life of a squirrel, cat, dog is more important than their own lives, and that of others in their vehicles as well as the lives in the surrounding vehicles