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Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 vs Pilot Super Sport - Opinions Please
- Thread starter Dreamin
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Mine's gone up a little since the Super Sports, but I attribute that (so far) to more spirited driving since I don't feel like I'm going to slide off the road in my worn Contis.
In fact, my P85 doesn't feel as spunky as it used to -- I think -- because it doesn't break loose as often. Or maybe I'm just used to it. I'll have to do more testing, of course.
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
Mine's gone up a little since the Super Sports, but I attribute that (so far) to more spirited driving since I don't feel like I'm going to slide off the road in my worn Contis.
In fact, my P85 doesn't feel as spunky as it used to -- I think -- because it doesn't break loose as often. Or maybe I'm just used to it. I'll have to do more testing, of course.
Of course. :wink:
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
From TM
cbentinck | APRIL 14, 2014
I had Michelin PS2 tires on my car and after taking off my winter tires I had to replace 2 of the summer tires and saw the Michelin Super Sports were less than half the price of the PS2's. I tried them this weekend and now if I floor it from a standing start, I got no wheel spin, which I had become accustomed to with the PS2's. I cannot speak to their longevity but at half he price, it seems hard to go wrong.
My response
lolachampcar | APRIL 14, 2014
I've run different size and compound tires front to rear many times with few issues. Those issues involved very upset traction control on BMWs.
General observations about PSS. They are cheaper than PS2s. They last longer than PS2s and they have more grip. The Tire Rack web site lists similar rotation/mile numbers/differences for certain PS2 to PSS options. Specifically, the current RPM(ile) difference on the standard tires on my P+ is roughly the same as that which I get when I change the rears to 265/30ZR21s PSS (which is my plan when I need rears). The load range for these tires is in a similar neighborhood as well. The only reason I've not done this yet is I still have 5/32 on evenly wearing rears at 10,500 miles.
There are a couple of things that happen when the manufacturer is the sole source for service on a vehicle. First, they can delay the production and distribution of test tools. Second, manufacturers are reluctant to do any work on the car that does not conform to a production specification (for liability reasons). This has reared its head when one owner got some P+ parts on his P without doing the whole factory generated P+ retrofit. When others tried to follow their lead, Tesla declined. Applying this to tires and there is absolutely no reason for Tesla to say anything positive about any other tire/rim choice. Musk has large stones and tends to buck the cover your butt at the expense of customer flexibility trend but these decisions are likely being made at lower levels with much less risk adverse managers.
cbentinck | APRIL 14, 2014
I had Michelin PS2 tires on my car and after taking off my winter tires I had to replace 2 of the summer tires and saw the Michelin Super Sports were less than half the price of the PS2's. I tried them this weekend and now if I floor it from a standing start, I got no wheel spin, which I had become accustomed to with the PS2's. I cannot speak to their longevity but at half he price, it seems hard to go wrong.
My response
lolachampcar | APRIL 14, 2014
I've run different size and compound tires front to rear many times with few issues. Those issues involved very upset traction control on BMWs.
General observations about PSS. They are cheaper than PS2s. They last longer than PS2s and they have more grip. The Tire Rack web site lists similar rotation/mile numbers/differences for certain PS2 to PSS options. Specifically, the current RPM(ile) difference on the standard tires on my P+ is roughly the same as that which I get when I change the rears to 265/30ZR21s PSS (which is my plan when I need rears). The load range for these tires is in a similar neighborhood as well. The only reason I've not done this yet is I still have 5/32 on evenly wearing rears at 10,500 miles.
There are a couple of things that happen when the manufacturer is the sole source for service on a vehicle. First, they can delay the production and distribution of test tools. Second, manufacturers are reluctant to do any work on the car that does not conform to a production specification (for liability reasons). This has reared its head when one owner got some P+ parts on his P without doing the whole factory generated P+ retrofit. When others tried to follow their lead, Tesla declined. Applying this to tires and there is absolutely no reason for Tesla to say anything positive about any other tire/rim choice. Musk has large stones and tends to buck the cover your butt at the expense of customer flexibility trend but these decisions are likely being made at lower levels with much less risk adverse managers.
Just a followup. The Super Sports definitely have higher Wh/mile usage. It was a beautiful weekend here and I was still hitting 365 Wh/mile at 65mph on the freeway rather than my normal 330 or so I got last summer. That +30-40 or so I've been seeing since I installed them seems to be consistent.
At first, I thought the road noise was the same or maybe better than the Continentals, which is still true below freeway speeds. At 50+ mph, the tire road noise seems slightly worse than the Continentals. I'm ambivalent about the Super Sports. We'll see how I feel in a 18 months when I start to get near to needing tires again.
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Have you had a chance to examine tire contact loading in soft sand or equivalent? I ask because the different side wall construction MAY (and that is a long shot may) drive the need for higher tire pressures. Running lower relative pressures would drive the increase you are seeing. It is just a long shot in hopes of getting back to where you started.
This may also explain why Tesla chose to use the tire variant that costs twice as much
This may also explain why Tesla chose to use the tire variant that costs twice as much
gnelson
Member
I placed an order with TireRack for 2 of the 265/30ZR21 Pilot Super Sports and 2 245/35/ZR21 Pilot Super Sports. After reading the posts and noting that the 265's were back ordered, I changed the order to 4ea 245/35ZR21 Pilot Super Sports. I should have them by Wednesday. The $70 Master Card that comes with them will compensate for the shipping. I am due for my annual service and will get my P+ aligned at the Houston SC then. I will ask them to compensate for the speedometer change with slightly different rear tire circumference for the 245's vs the stock 265's.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
lolachampcar | APRIL 14, 2014
245/35 PS2 $543 749rpm
265/25 PS2 $550 735rpm
245/35 PSS $289
245/30 PSS $385 776rpm
265/30 PSS $317 762rpm
So the stock P+ has a spread of -14rpm front to rear
Changing to 30 series PSS gives a +13 spread front to rear so actually a smaller spread
Of course your spedo will be off by 27/735 or 3.7% assuming Tesla actually changes spedo cal for the different tire packages. I doubt they do.
245/35 PS2 $543 749rpm
265/25 PS2 $550 735rpm
245/35 PSS $289
245/30 PSS $385 776rpm
265/30 PSS $317 762rpm
So the stock P+ has a spread of -14rpm front to rear
Changing to 30 series PSS gives a +13 spread front to rear so actually a smaller spread
Of course your spedo will be off by 27/735 or 3.7% assuming Tesla actually changes spedo cal for the different tire packages. I doubt they do.
gnelson
Member
I know they won't mount them. I am not sure what is meant by "won't touch". I am having the PSS tires drop shipped to an installer. I subscribed for annual service and the Houston SC has been very accommodating.
The 265/35ZR21 had 712.9 rev/mi
The 245/35ZR21 have 727.1 rev/mi
I assumed that since the Performance Models with 21 in wheels were using 245/35R21 that the speedometer setting could be changed from the P+ setting to the P setting. I was also assuming it is a simple software entry or could be calibrated by gps like my bicycle computer. I figured the Model S was way more sophisticated than my Garmin Edge 800. I am also probably being too optimistic.
Laurent
Member
I experimented with 285mm wide rear tires to improve grip but I didn't like the increased understeer. I feel that the car is much more balanced with 245 all around. Grip would be awesome with AWD though, that's the only thing I miss from my Audi.
Bill D
Member
My P85 came with PS2s and I only have 2,000 mi on them. However, I've recently replaced all four worn-out PS2s on my very lonely ICE-age Mercedes-Benz S550 with four Michelin PSS and the PSS generated much less road noise than the PS2s did. It may be because the PS2s were worn low, I can't tell for sure, but the difference in road noise was so dramatic on the way home that I checked the inflation pressure with my same tire gage and it was the same pressure as the PS2s were.
AndreyATC
Member
That's odd
My 2013 Audi S6 had 255 in all four corners
There was absolutely no balance and car felt horrible with such setup
All my BMWs had staggered setups and handled beautifully
I'm back "home" with Tesla now
I actually think, 255/285 would be perfect sizes for 21s
Or better yet, make M5 sizes, 265/295 for P85+
After all, it's performance model...
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While BMWs handle great out of the box, most can be made even better (less understeer) by eliminating the tire stagger and running the rear size all the way around. This is a frequent track mod on M3s and others. My last E90 M3 was awesome on 19x10 square with 265s all around and my E36 M3 track car is set up on 255s all around. The balance and feel on the Audi is less to do with the stagger than the inherent design of the car.
BTW, on the original thread subject. I have not run the PSS on the tesla but on my M3 I ran PS2 and PSS back to back. The PSS were an improvement, stickier, quieter, better riding, similar very predictable break away characteristics. The PSS are my current favorite street tire and quite capable on the track too.
BTW, on the original thread subject. I have not run the PSS on the tesla but on my M3 I ran PS2 and PSS back to back. The PSS were an improvement, stickier, quieter, better riding, similar very predictable break away characteristics. The PSS are my current favorite street tire and quite capable on the track too.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
JB,
Tesla likely shares your opinion of PSS (they are not stupid) so range must be the reason they stick with PS2.
Tesla likely shares your opinion of PSS (they are not stupid) so range must be the reason they stick with PS2.
AndreyATC
Member
Are you saying PS2s have better rolling resistance?
I thought PSS was superior in every possible category compared to PS2 tire, including mileage
It seems that TM sticks with PS2s because there is no proper sizes of PSS
That's the only explanation i can come up with
There is no reason to chose PS2 over PSS IMO
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Another poster has commented that his/her initial impressions were that range DECREASED with PSS. They later followed up confirming a change of approximately 30 WHr/mile with the PSS.
I was commenting on that information as a possible explanation why Tesla would use an older tire that costs twice as much. A 10% hit on range would explain that. It was/is pure speculation on my part.
I was commenting on that information as a possible explanation why Tesla would use an older tire that costs twice as much. A 10% hit on range would explain that. It was/is pure speculation on my part.
AndreyATC
Member
I guess we need more data to confirm that
I find it hard to believe that Michelin went backwards on this
They've been working on each generation to improve rolling resistance
Also better tire live and less noise is in a way proportional to rolling resistance in the same tire group?
on the other hand, member with PSS must be wearing different sizes compared to PS2
so this could play a role in difference
I find it hard to believe that Michelin went backwards on this
They've been working on each generation to improve rolling resistance
Also better tire live and less noise is in a way proportional to rolling resistance in the same tire group?
on the other hand, member with PSS must be wearing different sizes compared to PS2
so this could play a role in difference
gnelson
Member
AndreyATC
Member
PS2 vs PSS by Motortrend
Testing the Michelin Pilot Super Sport - Motor Trend All Pages
Michelin's in-house testing, performed at the Michelin Technology Center, helped identify six key areas in which the Michelin Pilot Super Sport outperforms its predecessor, the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2:
So, Milieage is improved
Testing the Michelin Pilot Super Sport - Motor Trend All Pages
Michelin's in-house testing, performed at the Michelin Technology Center, helped identify six key areas in which the Michelin Pilot Super Sport outperforms its predecessor, the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2:
- Road-holding on dry surfaces: Tests showed a 1.5-second gain on a 2,700-meter closed-circuit track.
- Braking on dry surfaces: When decelerating from 100 km/h to a full stop, braking distance was shortened by 1.5 meters.
- Road-holding on wet surfaces: Time was reduced by 2.5 seconds on a 4,100-meter closed-circuit track.
- Braking on wet roads: When decelerating from 80 to 10 km/h, braking distance was shortened by 3 meters.
- Total mileage on the track: 50% more laps.
- Total mileage on the road: 10% greater distance.
So, Milieage is improved
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