It occurs to me that it probably costs a lot for Hydro to install the transformer, run the 1Mw feed, etc. That money plus probably some monthly electricity minimum charge becomes due I assume when the equipment is hooked up. Plus, there'd be a peak power rate to pay for a small number of visitors at a very isolated charger. A single supercharger too far from others is not going to be very useful. So most likely Tesla's strategy is to do all the ground prep first - fairly cheap, it seemed to be 3 or 4 guys and a small backhoe. Then, when all the sites are ready, do a blitz to install equipment all the way along the Trans-Canada in one swell foop, opening up the route and "open the floodgates" of traffic.
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204EV
Member
zl0rp
Member
Do you think MB Hydro would really care about the peak cost? They don't charge us customers a higher rate during peak times.
Peak doesn't mean peak hours here. It means the peak amount of power used by the site. In addition to per kWh fees, commercial sites generally have to pay high per kW fees based on their peak power draw.
zl0rp
Member
Can't speak for Manitoba, but in Alberta and in most places, commercial accounts pay both for the total electricity consumed (kWh) as well as the highest current drawn at any time during the month (kW). This is known as Peak Demand.
For my business, the Peak Demand charges make up a bit less than half my monthly electrical bill and I wouldn't consider my Peak Demand to be particularly high, around 50 kW IIRC.
I expect the Peak Demand charges for a bank of 8 Superchargers all in use at the same time would be very expensive. A V3 Supercharger can charge at 250 kW and isn't limited by other cars at other chargers. 8 x 250 kW = 2,000 kW. That's 40x the draw of my office, not even accounting for inefficiencies! The Peak Demand charges would be huge, assuming the electrical grid could even handle that kind of draw. Instead it makes more sense to use batteries to supply power when Supercharger demand is high and recharge the stationary batteries when demand is low thereby minimizing Peak Demand.
204EV
Member
I'd imagine they would fall in this category from MB hydro.. so yes if they had 6x250 1500kva that would leave them with a demand charge for the month of approx $10K. whereas with battery storage they could probably keep it to less than $2k that would be huge as with our low /kwh costs here (charging a MS LRP would cost them around $4) if they charge the average of 20c Manitoba superchargers could be a great profit center to fund more dev.
***edit. forgot that they are on 1000KWa so I guess that limits demand charges to around $7k
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So far, 6 and 8 stall V3 sites that are under construction are using 1,000 kVA transformers. The 24 stall site at Las Vegas is on a 2,500 kVA transformer. You can't really add up all of stalls to get peak demand, as the sites are limited by the transformers plus whatever overage is allowed. This is a very good method of keeping demand charges under control.
And yes, peak demand charges can get very expensive. I'm on a time-of-use plan at home that has demand charges (in exchange for lower peak kWh rates). They're about $5 per kW. Our large commercial account at work is around $8 per kW and our peak loads can exceed 1 MW on hot days. That's $8,000 in demand charges just for one month, excluding actual energy usage, which is billed at around $0.08/kWh. Tesla may be able to negotiate different terms with their utility providers, but this is a pretty good benchmark for setting expectations.
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Yes. One business I was involved in was very concerned about peak use- when your meter hits a peak, for commercial customers, you pay that rate for the month. They waited until the day after meter cycle to turn on heavy winter equipment. A friend of mine was looking into times thermostats over 20 years ago. His church had 3 electric furnaces and if they all ran at once the electric bill for the month was much higher.
Plus as I point out the initial connection charges plus a monthly connect charge are due once the service is connected. Postpone that until you have a decent amount of use.
1.21 Jiggawatts
Member
Makes me wonder how many more stealth sites there are along the TCH that no ones noticed yet.
Also love the fact that there’s actually equipment on site.
Chuq
Active Member
Did you find it online or did you go there yourself? Also, as Chuck said, the location?
Since Moosomin isn’t happening, should we change that pin to the Whitewood Supercharger?
Per his Facebook post on the Saskatchewan Electric Vehicle Association group it's at the CO-OP:
1206 Highway 1, Whitewood, SK S0G 5C0, Canada
Chuq
Active Member
That's a good question... looking at distances from Regina and Brandon 174/188 km (108/117 miles) it seems that this location will replace both Moosomin and Wolesley. I reckon re-purpose the Moosomin pin.
Why so? That's a CO-OP gas station right on the TCH. From his video on the Facebook page it looks more like that than the Railway St Address:
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Are you sure? Some other locations on TCH are 60 miles apart, so Whitewood to Brandon at 118 miles feels like a bit of a stretch. Wolseley to Regina is 135 miles, which is even more of a stretch. It might be worth leaving the Moosomin permit pin until we get more details.
My bad! For some reason I couldn’t find the location with that address, kept getting someplace in Wolseley or something, but then I ended up finding the right location just before seeing your post. Done
It's unfortunate they went with Whitewood instead of Moosomin. The location at the Red Barn in Moosomin brought with it a lot of food options, with the Red Barn itself being excellent plus A&W, KFC, Subway, Dairy Queen, and a couple of Pizza shops all within easy walking distance.
The Whitewood location doesn't have much, and the only sit down food option around there is a bit of a hike.
That being said, I can understand why Tesla did it. This will shave off a required charger through for them Sask (at least in the short term), it's just a bit disappointing.
The Whitewood location doesn't have much, and the only sit down food option around there is a bit of a hike.
That being said, I can understand why Tesla did it. This will shave off a required charger through for them Sask (at least in the short term), it's just a bit disappointing.
