I ordered the performance sport version. There’s several roads near my house with long stretches of cracked asphalt that really rattle the car. I can’t wait to do a before/after comparison between stock P3D suspension and the Öhlins. I’ll use an app that senses vibrations to have a more scientific comparison than just the feel of my butt.
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Vendor Model 3 Öhlins DFV Coilovers - Engineered by Redwood Motorsports ™
- Thread starter RedwoodMotors
- Start date
I ordered the performance sport version. There’s several roads near my house with long stretches of cracked asphalt that really rattle the car. I can’t wait to do a before/after comparison between stock P3D suspension and the Öhlins. I’ll use an app that senses vibrations to have a more scientific comparison than just the feel of my butt.
Part of the problem resides in the term "shock absorber". Better shocks don't do a lot for high frequency small displacements and impact harshness - that's taken care of by tire sidewalls and suspension bushings. Better shocks on the other hand do a lot for pitching, rolling and yawing, and improve cornering because they reduce weight transfer to the outside wheel, while controlling and optimally dampening oscillations without unduly inhibiting suspension travel. If you're looking for a scientific probe, it would be better to do a skid pad and slalom test before and after. Rough roads on the other hand are not the best way to evaluate Sports coilovers.
You’re absolutely correct. Unfortunately I don’t have access to a skid pad. That said, I’ve seen enough review videos on YouTube of folks swapping out their suspension for Öhlins DFVs and proceeding to knock off seconds from their previous best lap time. Yes, some also added brakes and better tires, but most of the positive feedback went on and on about about the suspension improvement from these Öhlins. This was enough to convince me this will be an awesome track upgrade for the P3D.
I’m driving my P3D on city roads 95% of the time, so I’m more concerned with Redwood’s description of a “firm but supple ride quality”. This is an aspect that wasn’t focused on in any of the track reviews I watched so this is what I will be focusing on until I can get to a track. One guy mentioned you no longer feel when you drive over reflectors on the road, that you just kinda float over them. These are the kind of improvements I’m hoping for because this is what I’ll benefit from 95% of the time I’m behind the wheel.
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MINUTES
Dear god man lolI've heard some great things about DFV, i would love to take a test ride in one of these cars sometime or perhaps hear more specifics from @beastmode13
Yes, performance version. I am part of the second batch and was told they should be shipping in 2-3 weeks.
MINUTES
lol oops, I meant seconds. I’ll fix my brain fart.
Understood.
This kind of wildly positive anecdotal report without any data point at all is exactly the kind of stuff you have to be skeptical of. Reflectors are the kind of high-frequency small sharp impact event that shock absorbers don't really handle. They're handled by tire sidewalls and bushings, and even to some extent by the driver seat itself. Shock tuning can make a little bit of difference but frankly not much, and oftentimes sport shocks with their stiffer compression valving can make those impacts worse. Reducing unsprung weight, switching to a different tire, getting a tire with a bigger sidewall, better isolation between the suspension and the chassis/body, those are the things that can make a bigger difference on those kinds of impacts. Even reducing the noise from the impact without actually reducing anything else makes drivers feel that the ride is significantly better.
I don’t know if I’m allowed to post YouTube videos, but this guy is the person that mentions the reflectors and small bumps. He didn’t change tires or wheels, all he did was swap the stock suspension for the DFVs. Here’s the link:
He has a follow-up review after taking his S2000 to the track.
Suspension 'feel' can be very subjective. One person says "sporty" another says "harsh". One driver might lap faster on a soft setup, another may prefer a skateboard.
I wouldn't pay much attention myself to what a smartphone app reports. There's too much between the cheap built-in accelerometers and the road to skew the results.
Go by how it feels to you. It's your car.. Test back to back on the same roads repeatedly. Make notes, take a passenger with you each time and get them to write down what they feel so you have a comparison. Your passenger might have a totally different feel and disagree with you, but it's another opinion.
Once you get to the track, only the lap times matter really (as long as the setup isn't too edgy).
All IMO of course...
I wouldn't pay much attention myself to what a smartphone app reports. There's too much between the cheap built-in accelerometers and the road to skew the results.
Go by how it feels to you. It's your car.. Test back to back on the same roads repeatedly. Make notes, take a passenger with you each time and get them to write down what they feel so you have a comparison. Your passenger might have a totally different feel and disagree with you, but it's another opinion.
Once you get to the track, only the lap times matter really (as long as the setup isn't too edgy).
All IMO of course...
Quality sports shocks can be tuned to have pretty soft high-speed bump/rebound, and have plenty of impact on rough road comfort. Now, tire pressure/side wall stiffness is very important for those, but shocks can help. My S2000 with off-the-shelf DFVs (these guys are selling a quite upgraded version) is pretty decent over track curbs and modest potholes.
LOL, I currently have Ohlins DFV in my S2000, and I can confidently say that road reflectors and small bumps are the bane of my existence.
To be fair, I have a stripped interior with stiff bushings, which contribute to bumps having that "I definitely broke something" feeling. The DFV certainly do the job of maintaining road contact and eliminating oscillations though, which I appreciate.
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Good to get some data points in on this subject.
One of the things that concerns me about this thread is the way in which claims without evidence are treated as virtual facts. They might be true, but still as someone who's spent a lifetime in the Sciences, it gets pounded into your head that there is a principled distinction between claims and facts. One of the claims that has been floated on this thread that makes me frankly uncomfortable was the claim made several pages ago that Ohlin shocks are simply way better than the competition and specifically way better than KW. And further, that this is simply a matter of consensus. I don't see hard evidence for "way better". In fact I would say I don't see hard evidence for better. I just see a lot of claims.
The other problem is that the person making that claim also claimed that that mountain pass performance gear was subject to an import Duty. They've since apologized for this, but again it's an example of people jumping the gun around making claims. I have high regard for Ohlin shocks but I also have high regard for KW. Which is better? I honestly don't know. I do know that that question cannot be answered by anecdotal reports, manufacturers or resellers making claims, and what amounts to simple advertising. Advertising is the antithesis of serious data.
Serious data would be track team A running car A' on their carefully tuned chassis switching from one coilover system to another and reporting after significant tuning and tweaking that their best times went down, went up, or stayed the same. In any case I suspect the differences on track would be very hard to quantify and measure because the cars would otherwise have to be identical, and furthermore driven by the same driver who was blind to which system he was actually testing. There's also of course a lot of tuning and tweaking for each course. So it's a formidable task to actually get data that's meaningful as opposed to again simply anecdotal claims, advertising by Distributors and manufacturers, Etc. Similarly in terms of claims about ride quality, you would need to have people blinded to which coilover system was in the car they were driving evaluating the ride on a variety of surfaces with some version of a quantitative scale, rating several aspects of what we know makes up the composite we call "ride quality". And of course it would need to be more than one driver. These would have to be direct A / B comparisons with the driver going directly from one system to the next, and with this transition varying across drivers so that not every driver was driving the same system first or second. And obviously the course on which the drive was conducted would have to be identical from trial to trial. This data is also hard to come by. When you consider all these things you realize that getting actual data as opposed to making claims is an expensive and difficult process. That's probably the basic reason why we have so many claims and so little data. And also unfortunately, when one claim is challenged or questioned, people often just present other claims to back up the first claim.
In the absence of these kinds of data sets you should treat all the other statements about these systems for what they are. They are simply claims and anecdotal reports. They are not hard evidence.
My two cents worth.
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All valid points @dfwatt. As you stated yourself, such scientific tests (and they’d have to be repeated numerous times to even then be a considered facts) are expensive and impossible, certainly not something I’m going to accomplish.
I didn’t mean to stir so much sh*t up by offering my simplistic before/after comparison. I’m just going to enjoy the heck out of my new suspension and anyone that cares to know my unscientific opinion can DM me if they want.
I didn’t mean to stir so much sh*t up by offering my simplistic before/after comparison. I’m just going to enjoy the heck out of my new suspension and anyone that cares to know my unscientific opinion can DM me if they want.
All valid points @dfwatt. As you stated yourself, such scientific tests (and they’d have to be repeated numerous times to even then be a considered facts) are expensive and impossible, certainly not something I’m going to accomplish.
I didn’t mean to stir so much sh*t up by offering my simplistic before/after comparison. I’m just going to enjoy the heck out of my new suspension and anyone that cares to know my unscientific opinion can DM me if they want.
Well they're not impossible. Those kinds of comparison tests though take a budget and the question is who would pay for it. On the other hand, end users like yourself can offer rides to people and that does become meaningful data in terms of an A / B comparison between a stock suspension and an after-market one. It's too bad you're not in my area because I'd love to do a comparison Drive between your Ohlin kit and my Mountain Pass one. It would be interesting to see what our impressions are of the other kit in terms of it's similarities and differences to ours. Of course then there's a problem of our having likely different sets of Wheels and tires on the cars. What have you got on yours?
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beastmode13
Member
Exactly. That's why I stay with the objective comparison that I posted a couple weeks ago. Redwood Ohlins is Orange. MPP/KW is Blue.
Redwood's test mule at the time of my test drive was bone stock on 18" wheels with only their sports coilovers and FUCA. My car, not stock at all. And not to mention the alignment, camber and damping settings are all different between the two cars. My subjective opinions are kept to myself. I can't wait to get a more apple to apple comparison in the future.I’d love a comparison as well. I almost went for Mountain Pass before deciding to go with the Öhlins. I just installed staggered (9/10.5) 20” Vorsteineers with Tesla specific 235/35 and 275/30 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. I’m really looking forward to seeing Redwoods upcoming 19” squared forged wheels. I might swap to those after I see the final weight and better pictures of them installed.
Wow that's amazing - that's exactly the setup I had on my car for the whole year until just recently when I switched to VS forged (VS 14) 9.5 in front and 10.5 in the rear. This will allow me to run 265/30 and 275/30 Pilot Sport 4S. Unfortunately the 265/30 is not Tesla specific. I wanted a staggered look but I did not want a set up that would result in a lot of terminal understeer. I suspect the car still understeers at the limit. Hoping that a future version of firmware includes sliders that allow you to apportion torque front and rear which would of course allow staggered setups to work better on the track.
Looks like your wish came true. This will be available with Track Mode V2.
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