Model 3 12v Battery issues, monitoring, Aftermarket replacement

[lUtriaNt]

maayyyyybeee better than 25% if i had to guesstimate.... the punch is really noticed-- as if the amplifier now has more headroom to faithfully reproduce the low end that was there. the premium system was already good to my ears sonically -- meaning the stereo image was there and the highs weren't harsh. but with this battery, the overall sound is more full. just more presence.

 

[slave0418]

Morning j. I think I’ve see a couple but can’t remember their names. Google 12 Volt lithium batteries and you’ll come up with a bunch. I’ve heard of issues with the lithium batteries installed in a model 3. You’d think a 12 volt car battery would be the same regardless of the kind, but somehow the 12 volt lithium batteries installed in a 3 cause error messages. What I’m most curious about is there a savings when driving due to the weight reduction.

As we all know, Li batteries have different chargers. So, here is where problem come from...

 

[smatthew]

maayyyyybeee better than 25% if i had to guesstimate.... the punch is really noticed-- as if the amplifier now has more headroom to faithfully reproduce the low end that was there. the premium system was already good to my ears sonically -- meaning the stereo image was there and the highs weren't harsh. but with this battery, the overall sound is more full. just more presence.

It's a good thing humans aren't known to have a tendency to find things better in their audio once they've spend hundreds of dollars on meaningless upgrades. $500/ft wire anyone?
If the car is on, the power conversion system is providing 193 amps of "12V" power. Usually 13.5-14.5 volts to take care of the 12V battery.

The 12v lithium ion batteries definitely saves a small amount of weight. They SHOULD have a longer lifetime. But better audio response? Honestly, if instantaneous power demand is the problem, they sell huge capacitors which will respond to power demand much quicker than any battery.

And if you're doing it for weight savings, answer me this. What percentage of total body weight is the difference?

If you've upgraded, more power to you. *wink* But no need to justify your decision to us with any reason besides "I don't want to worry about the lead acid battery dying on me so quickly"

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Actually, I noticed better bass in my car(s) too, this battery does have better specs and I like insurance blanket of the four year warranty, you won't notice the weight difference except during install. I have two massive batteries in my SUV and when they go, Im getting these to take a significant amount of weight off my front suspension. I also just put one of these in my track Miata, it has an interesting feature called re-START and comes with a separate remote to switch the battery back on to start the car if you drain the battery.

Antigravity Group-51R Car Battery

• Group 51R OEM Automotive Case size (directly replace stock battery).
• LxWxH: 9.4 x 5.2 x 8.6 inches.
• Amp Hours: 24 Ah.
• High Power: 1000 Cranking Amps.
• Exclusive RE-START Technology (Wireless Remote Jump-Starting).
• Complete Battery Management System built-in.
• Ultra Lightweight: Drop up to 40 lbs instantly! 70% lighter than lead.
• Safest Battery Technology using full BMS and Lifepo4 Lithium chemistry.

 

[LGA737]

maayyyyybeee better than 25% if i had to guesstimate.... the punch is really noticed-- as if the amplifier now has more headroom to faithfully reproduce the low end that was there. the premium system was already good to my ears sonically -- meaning the stereo image was there and the highs weren't harsh. but with this battery, the overall sound is more full. just more presence.

Although I’m only and electrical engineer and NOT a psychologist, I have to say the above effect has more to do with psychology than electrical physics.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Although I’m only and electrical engineer and NOT a psychologist, I have to say the above effect has more to do with psychology than electrical physics.

Actually it has more to do with chemistry than electrical engineering. LiFePO has almost twice the energy of Lead and when you add a BMS into the picture (which is electrical engineering) there are benefits. A 25 AMP LiFePO has the same "punch" as a 50 AMP Lead Acid and less voltage sag, as you get to the lower end of the battery charge. I'm not an electrical engineer or battery engineer, but I have a couple decades supporting electronic installs in military hardware, there is a reason they use this tech on edge tactical devices. (weight, energy density, cyclic durability, etc). There are negatives with LiFePO; low temperatures impacts, which the BMS manages, cost and end of life energy drop, which is usually very rapid with no recovery once you run 1000's of charge/discharge cycles.

Keep in mind each chemical mix for each battery also has to be handled differently when they cook off.

http://robotsforroboticists.com/lithium-ion-battery-safety/

 

[lUtriaNt]

LOL y'all cats in this thread. arguing over the internet is a fool's errand.

yall engineers and armchair experts and keyboard jockeys can have the last word. im enjoying my car and the results of my upgrade.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

LOL y'all cats in this thread. arguing over the internet is a fool's errand.

yall engineers and armchair experts and keyboard jockeys can have the last word. im enjoying my car and the results of my upgrade.

 

[wws]

Actually, I noticed better bass in my car(s) too, this battery does have better specs and I like insurance blanket of the four year warranty, you won't notice the weight difference except during install. I have two massive batteries in my SUV and when they go, Im getting these to take a significant amount of weight off my front suspension. I also just put one of these in my track Miata, it has an interesting feature called re-START and comes with a separate remote to switch the battery back on to start the car if you drain the battery.

Antigravity Group-51R Car Battery

• Group 51R OEM Automotive Case size (directly replace stock battery).
• LxWxH: 9.4 x 5.2 x 8.6 inches.
• Amp Hours: 24 Ah.
• High Power: 1000 Cranking Amps.
• Exclusive RE-START Technology (Wireless Remote Jump-Starting).
• Complete Battery Management System built-in.
• Ultra Lightweight: Drop up to 40 lbs instantly! 70% lighter than lead.
• Safest Battery Technology using full BMS and Lifepo4 Lithium chemistry.

FWIW the Antigravity folks aren't recommending use in Teslas yet. Still testing them. (Per a different forum.)

 

[Ravire]

I keep reading about how the lithium 12v improves the sound so I’m going to buy the Ohmmu and see if it makes a difference with the stock system. If not I’m planning on getting a Reus audio system installed and I’ll see if that functions better with the lithium battery vs stock. If that still doesn’t show a difference I guess I wasted $400. With the stock mxm4 tires I don’t notice a difference in handling when carrying stuff in the frunk so I doubt the weight savings will be noticeable considering it’s like less than half a percent of the cars weight.

 

[grmdl3]

I keep reading about how the lithium 12v improves the sound so I’m going to buy the Ohmmu and see if it makes a difference with the stock system. If not I’m planning on getting a Reus audio system installed and I’ll see if that functions better with the lithium battery vs stock. If that still doesn’t show a difference I guess I wasted $400. With the stock mxm4 tires I don’t notice a difference in handling when carrying stuff in the frunk so I doubt the weight savings will be noticeable considering it’s like less than half a percent of the cars weight.

If you are going to do this, could you please do a proper A/B test with some sort of objective measurement (spectrum analyzer, even on a phone app) or a blind subjective listening test where you swap batteries and assess? And also try to ascertain the real condition of the lead/acid battery to figure out if it is a dying battery to begin with in which case newness of battery is more the issue than topology?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

If you are going to do this, could you please do a proper A/B test with some sort of objective measurement (spectrum analyzer, even on a phone app) or a blind subjective listening test where you swap batteries and assess? And also try to ascertain the real condition of the lead/acid battery to figure out if it is a dying battery to begin with in which case newness of battery is more the issue than topology?

Just play above 6+ and you will notice the subwoofer action is a lot better.

 

[Ravire]

If you are going to do this, could you please do a proper A/B test with some sort of objective measurement (spectrum analyzer, even on a phone app) or a blind subjective listening test where you swap batteries and assess? And also try to ascertain the real condition of the lead/acid battery to figure out if it is a dying battery to begin with in which case newness of battery is more the issue than topology?

I’ll use a multimeter to check the voltage of both batteries out of the car and I’ll do a frequency sweep at the same set volume in the car and I’ll use a phone app to see a spectrum for both. I picked my car up in March the day after it was delivered from the factory so the battery should be good but I’ll make sure. I’ll also put the original battery back to make sure changing the battery doesn’t just refresh something to cause it to play different.

 

[Ravire]

I’ll post results after I finish measuring everything but first impressions...it does sound like there’s more bass and the system sounds slightly warmer.

 

[RKBA]

Just read this entire thread (my 12V warned me yesterday and failed today) and noticed it lacks one pertinent fact. The Ohmmu battery is a lithium ion iron phosphate battery, not a simple lithium ion. These have a much better temperature window than standard Li-ion, particularly at the low temperature end.

 

[M109Rider]

Just read this entire thread (my 12V warned me yesterday and failed today) and noticed it lacks one pertinent fact. The Ohmmu battery is a lithium ion iron phosphate battery, not a simple lithium ion. These have a much better temperature window than standard Li-ion, particularly at the low temperature end.

I haven’t read through this thread, so to summarize, which battery is best to use as a replacement if one isn’t gong with the OEM battery. ?

 

[Ravire]

I haven’t read through this thread, so to summarize, which battery is best to use as a replacement if one isn’t gong with the OEM battery. ?

Well you can either go lead acid which is what stock uses or ohmmu’s lithium or mpp has a lithium one too. I’d choose either between stock or ohmmu and then it just depends if you think the price difference is worth it. I’m only keeping the ohmmu because I’m planning on removing some weight to offset the sound deadening I’m going to do.

 

[Ravire]

Also about the ohmmu I installed the stock sub seemed to respond a little faster and hit a little cleaner but the main problem was it doesn’t go low enough which no battery is going to change so I went with an aftermarket sub. About it sounding warmer, I think that was just from the speakers breaking in.

 

[M109Rider]

Well you can either go lead acid which is what stock uses or ohmmu’s lithium or mpp has a lithium one too. I’d choose either between stock or ohmmu and then it just depends if you think the price difference is worth it. I’m only keeping the ohmmu because I’m planning on removing some weight to offset the sound deadening I’m going to do.

Thanks for the info.

 

[RKBA]

I haven’t read through this thread, so to summarize, which battery is best to use as a replacement if one isn’t gong with the OEM battery. ?

After reading some more on another forum, including replies from the Ohmmu founder himself, I plan to buy one of their batteries sometime after my car hits 50k miles. That should be in about 12-13 months, after which my OEM battery will no longer be warrantied. If it can really last 4 years, that's worth the extra price IMHO. It should also reduce phantom drain, which is a nice bonus.