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Model 3 12v Battery issues, monitoring, Aftermarket replacement
- Thread starter hcdavis3
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- 12 volt 12 volt battery
jombolo
Member
Yes, certainly expensive. But, if it lasts longer and is worth the payoff...Just was curious if anyone else has installed one.
JCtx
Member
With the 12V battery obviously being a critical component of the car, I'll probably replace it every 2 years, as preventative maintenance. Being a 51R, it's not that expensive, and MUCH better than getting stranded in the middle of nowhere at 100F+ (or freezing), and with no cell service, no? Ha ha. Anyway, can anybody tell us the brand and exact model of the battery on these cars? Is it an AGM?
My immediate question is WHY they're failing. If it's a good battery (like from Johnson Controls, now Clarios), I'd eliminate a defect as the reason, being so many cars, and so soon. Since the car supposedly maintains the battery charged, it's sounding like it's an OVERCHARGING issue, rather than undercharging, no? But I'd like to know which one it is. A yellow Optima would be a lot better battery if the issue is undercharging, since yellow Optimas are deep-cycle batteries. But if the issue is overcharging, they'd be worse IMO. So we need to know what the suspected problem is before choosing what to replace it with.
My immediate question is WHY they're failing. If it's a good battery (like from Johnson Controls, now Clarios), I'd eliminate a defect as the reason, being so many cars, and so soon. Since the car supposedly maintains the battery charged, it's sounding like it's an OVERCHARGING issue, rather than undercharging, no? But I'd like to know which one it is. A yellow Optima would be a lot better battery if the issue is undercharging, since yellow Optimas are deep-cycle batteries. But if the issue is overcharging, they'd be worse IMO. So we need to know what the suspected problem is before choosing what to replace it with.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This has been discussed in similar threads - Master thread: Model 3 12v Battery issues, monitoring, Aftermarket replacement. You can purchase the battery for $85 from Tesla (or $124/$129 installed I think). It's the only source I am aware of - currently a "perfect" equivalent (which would be cheaper or the same price) is not stocked at auto parts stores.
Based on the price and battery manufacturer documents (see other threads), probably it is not AGM (do not confuse with other Tesla models which may well be AGM according to TeslaTap, etc.). If it's not AGM, it's probably best to not replace the battery with an AGM battery as the charging profiles are slightly different, from what I understand. Also it's cheaper to get the Tesla battery. AGM would probably work fine but no idea really.
Yes.
The "benefits" of these expensive 12volts are mostly just marketing claims that haven't been proven in the real world. Specifically the claims about being cheaper in the long run since nobody has had them long enough yet.
I looked into it a couple years ago emailed Ohmmu's predecessor (renamed) and a salesman in every negative connotation of the word assured me it would be fine here near Green Bay where my Tesla has experienced -20f and I have seen it colder. Didn't reference any BMS or temp controls, said it was close enough to the main pack it would get that cold.
My S got over 4 years out of the first battery and more than 2 sofar on the second, 102k miles.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes. $85 last I checked. No core charge last I checked. Should make sure they have it, first.
JCtx
Member
I'm on your camp too. Ha ha. And good to hear you can just pick a new battery, and even with no core charge. But I'd probably just take it on my other car, and swap it there for the new one. Otherwise you'd have to pay for disposal. But yes, I'd call first, and not only make sure they have a battery, but that it's fresh
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Thanks for the information, although not what I am looking for.
I'll keep looking and hoping for a 12v that has enough capacity to carry my car over 24 hours without an intervening charging episode.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I had a long chat with Ohmmu a few weeks ago after they had revised their battery to avoid car errors. I was told that they halved the battery Ahr as a solution. That sounded bad to my ears but I asked if they would perform a 0.1 or 0.2C capacity depletion test from full down to 12.6 volts. They agreed ... and then disappeared.
No Ohmmu for me.
No Ohmmu for me.
Second stupid question....can I just keep said “spare battery” in my frunk or sub trunk? At least it’s with me at all times just in case. I read people are putting it on battery tenders at home but for example at autozone I don’t see any of their batteries on any tenders. Thoughts?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I think that I would just replace the battery preventatively every 3-4 years and keep an eye on it (12V monitor, maybe something will show prior to failure) and consider replacing earlier if I thought it might fail on me, in particular, a week or two prior to road trips (to make sure all is well with the new battery). That way no second battery necessary.
It’s a tricky problem, the first issue being: poor availability of these batteries. If they were available at any auto parts store I would not be too concerned about waiting until failure. Sure, in a pinch (road trip) you could probably find a replacement which would work, but it will be AGM, twice as expensive, and might not work as well long term.
The second issue is that the failure tends to be a bit harder than an ICE 12V failure. For example, my Highlander battery died on me a couple months ago. I got lucky to get a quick jump (I have cables) from a passerby, and then I was good; I just made sure to not turn the car off for a while. The battery is irreversibly damaged so has problems, but as long as I charge it up every couple weeks it’s good enough. Eventually I will replace it but it’s fine for now. Probably could not get away with this with a Tesla!
If it's not an AGM battery what kind of battery is it? Is the type of battery used in the M3 documented somewhere on the internet?
Thanks in Advance
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Probably a sealed lead acid battery, maybe with special design provisions to the grids to allow deeper cycling with less emphasis on cold cranking amps (Speculating on these last couple things.) In one of the threads around here we found the manufacturer document with a table of battery types and it was indicated as not an AGM.
Also, circumstantially, the battery is so cheap it seems unlikely to be AGM. Note that this is not the same type of battery as is used in Model S/X. That one may well be AGM.
I know you’ve been on this issue for quite some time...for emergencies if people weren’t able to grab a battery from Tesla...was this one a viable option?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...size-51r/51rplt/5880657?q=SSB+51RPLT&pos=0#rr
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah, that looks like one people have said they have used. It appears to have terminals in the correct position of the correct type. $200, AGM (not a match to OEM), etc.
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