Model 3 as a company car

[spooksman]

Just as a note, electricity is not classed as a fuel by HMRC - on an electric car you can't assign a Fuel Benefit Charge...

"electricity does not sit within the meaning of fuel so the Fuel Benefit Charge does not apply. And there is no further benefit charge as s239(4) ITEPA 2003 specifically excludes a benefit connected with a taxable car."

Bottom line is that an electric car is a steal as a company car for the next few years, especially if it's salary sacrificed. Equally, your employer can choose to pay for the home charger if they do choose without it being a BiK.

 

[R5scott]

I’ve had my M3 as a company car through Arval since June. Had a list of hundreds to choose from but just couldn’t resist.
I previously had a polo blue GT as a company car (excellent little thing).

For me the tax saving is something I just couldn’t ignore when looking at alternatives. I know I am at least £200 a month better off plus the saving on fuel, not to mention I have a car that is a real head turner and otherwise would be way out of my price range.

I did find it interesting when choosing that everything else on my list for salary band was at least £7500 less on list price (bar the etron). This was explained by Arval as Being down to good resale value and low service costs. A significant number of my colleagues are also making the switch with many choosing to trade in big expensive diesels early due to the tax benefits.

Fuel wise, my employer pays the 4p per mile and I am working with them to install a charge point at work.

 

[craigwbaker]

Afternoon all.

I am just doing a financial justification on a 330e (current car) v a T3 (next to be ordered I hope). Just wondered if anyone had an experience in doing this as a company car.With fully expensed cars, can you claim back 100% of the fuel (electric)?

20k a year in mileage, 3 years running costs. Leased.

I need to show a saving over the 330e in running costs, as I suspect the T3 will be a lot more on lease.

Thanks

BTW, I am on Octopus Energy already.

 

[craigwbaker]

Do any of the company car drivers get a fuel card, on previous cars, and now use something similar for electric (fuel)? Mine is fully expensed and I am trying to work out how to get the costs back without resorting to expenses, which I assume is capped at 4p PM by HMRC?

Tax wise, I am just trying to weigh up the costs for me to simply charge them back for the company mileage (low right now, very low) against ALL the fully expensedmileage now, and justify that.

 

[Danny Dog]

Ive been following this thread and have had various company cars over the past few years..

my experience is..
You can take a company car from your employer and they can pay for all the fuel that is put in to the vehicle, then as long as the employee records and reports ALL private mileage the company then Charges you back at the Advisory fuel rate or above, this then allows you to avoid fuel benefit . this is an exert from the HMRC website..

Employees to repay the cost of fuel used for private travel
There will be no fuel benefit charge if you correctly record all private travel mileage and use the correct rate (or higher), to work out how much your employees must repay you for fuel used for private travel.

Is it not easier to put the fuel in the car yourself and then charge your Employer for the Business miles done?

 

[craigwbaker]

Is it not easier to put the fuel in the car yourself and then charge your Employer for the Business miles done?

I think that is where I am heading too. Just doing the sums on 4ppm. With Octopus cheap nightime deal, its good. Not so great elsewhere. I am even looking at the local Aldi now for a top up when I can. I run a fully expensed 330e now, so I am doing the sums. What I lose in tax should cover it though, and then charge the company at the 4ppm.

All I need to do now is financially justify it, against a 330e, for next year. Lease costs v whole life running costs. I am kinda thinking I may need to order soon.

 

[Danny Dog]

I think that is where I am heading too. Just doing the sums on 4ppm. With Octopus cheap nightime deal, its good. Not so great elsewhere. I am even looking at the local Aldi now for a top up when I can. I run a fully expensed 330e now, so I am doing the sums. What I lose in tax should cover it though, and then charge the company at the 4ppm.

All I need to do now is financially justify it, against a 330e, for next year. Lease costs v whole life running costs. I am kinda thinking I may need to order soon.

who are you trying to financially justify it for - you or your Employer? If it's for your Employer, play hard on them reducing their carbon footprint by having zero emissions vehicles on their fleet. The 330e is low emissions but not zero!

 

[craigwbaker]

who are you trying to financially justify it for - you or your Employer? If it's for your Employer, play hard on them reducing their carbon footprint by having zero emissions vehicles on their fleet. The 330e is low emissions but not zero!

The employer. I know the carbon footprint argument is strong, especially as I work for a company that seriously throw that out to thw world. The 330e was a half way house a few years ago, I knew that. We actually mft the EV charge points, and sell a LOT of them. The bigger ones for Jag, etc are made by my place. It isnt that simple though, money places a big part in it. Sadly so. I have to justify the extra (or not) and it will be decided

 

[Danny Dog]

The employer. I know the carbon footprint argument is strong, especially as I work for a company that seriously throw that out to thw world. The 330e was a half way house a few years ago, I knew that. We actually mft the EV charge points, and sell a LOT of them. The bigger ones for Jag, etc are made by my place. It isnt that simple though, money places a big part in it. Sadly so. I have to justify the extra (or not) and it will be decided

posted on another topic about BIK and Employer's NIC - an important saving for you on a car with no BIK.

I assume your 330e is older and less efficient than the latest 330e (i.e. higher co2)- are you having to compare your current car with the Tesla or a new model 330e?

remember about VAT. Your Employer can only claim half of the VAT back.

Tyres will be similar but servicing appears to be negligible/nil compared to BMW main dealer

the big part of the comparison will be the lease cost - is it with a fixed funder such as Lex or can you look around for the best price yourself.

happy to crunch some numbers via DM if it helps

 

[craigwbaker]

posted on another topic about BIK and Employer's NIC - an important saving for you on a car with no BIK.

I assume your 330e is older and less efficient than the latest 330e (i.e. higher co2)- are you having to compare your current car with the Tesla or a new model 330e?

remember about VAT. Your Employer can only claim half of the VAT back.

Tyres will be similar but servicing appears to be negligible/nil compared to BMW main dealer

the big part of the comparison will be the lease cost - is it with a fixed funder such as Lex or can you look around for the best price yourself.

happy to crunch some numbers via DM if it helps

Yeah, previous Gen 330e. I have asked our lease guys to go away and coe back with lease costs. I have already started a rather massive speadsheet! Haha....he can go anywhere for a price.

So the basic principal, is 330e (old) v 330e (new) v M3. 20k mileage. 3 years. I have used a few different websites to calculate a years worth fuel. Used Octopus standard, 14.6p, cheap night at 5p, and Super highways at 24p (pkw).

The BIK helps a lot. More savings I hope to show. I intend to do worse case scenerio for them, so they see how bad it could be. As long as it costs no more, I can probably get one.

 

[spooksman]

You can't have fuel benefit on an electric car - HMRC don't class electricity as fuel in this context.

The fuel benefit charge is applied when you use a 'traditional' car and all your fuel is paid for by the business (both private and business) - most commonly people have a credit card or fuel card they use and the business picks up the bill - you in turn pick up the fuel benefit charge. If you're paying to fill the car up yourself, you'll be claiming the advisory fuel rate for your business miles (this shouldn't be confused with the 45p a mile you can claim if its a private car!). You said your car was 'fully financed', so I assume this doesn't apply.

I would expect the saving that you make on not having the fuel benefit charge would more than cover your personal mileage - you stated 20,000 miles a year, you don't give a personal/business split...

If you can charge at work and the employer pays for that, its all free (business and private) - winner! However, assuming you end up paying for the electricity to charge the car at home (or when travelling), you would then be able to claim back any business miles at 4p per mile (as opposed to somewhere between 8p and 17p per mile depending on fuel and engine size).

I suppose the simplest calculation to show 'cost' is saying that you if put the 'fuel' in either vehicle and claim, then on the Tesla you'll be claiming 4p per mile, and on the BMW you'd probably be claiming 12p per mile - that help?

Lastly I believe there are some 'All Star' type cards that allow you to charge up from various suppliers and your company pays the bill, but am not sure...

PS - Don't forget that the Class 1A for them (the employer) is zero as well - that's probably about £800 a year saving to the business compared to the £40K BMW

 

[craigwbaker]

You can't have fuel benefit on an electric car - HMRC don't class electricity as fuel in this context.

The fuel benefit charge is applied when you use a 'traditional' car and all your fuel is paid for by the business (both private and business) - most commonly people have a credit card or fuel card they use and the business picks up the bill - you in turn pick up the fuel benefit charge. If you're paying to fill the car up yourself, you'll be claiming the advisory fuel rate for your business miles (this shouldn't be confused with the 45p a mile you can claim if its a private car!). You said your car was 'fully financed', so I assume this doesn't apply.

I would expect the saving that you make on not having the fuel benefit charge would more than cover your personal mileage - you stated 20,000 miles a year, you don't give a personal/business split...

If you can charge at work and the employer pays for that, its all free (business and private) - winner! However, assuming you end up paying for the electricity to charge the car at home (or when travelling), you would then be able to claim back any business miles at 4p per mile (as opposed to somewhere between 8p and 17p per mile depending on fuel and engine size).

I suppose the simplest calculation to show 'cost' is saying that you if put the 'fuel' in either vehicle and claim, then on the Tesla you'll be claiming 4p per mile, and on the BMW you'd probably be claiming 12p per mile - that help?

Lastly I believe there are some 'All Star' type cards that allow you to charge up from various suppliers and your company pays the bill, but am not sure...

PS - Don't forget that the Class 1A for them (the employer) is zero as well!

Mileage. Well I guess on a good year, 70/30 split, work/private. Probably more when I am busy.

Work give me a All Star card, and I pay the tax benefit for both private and work fuel. I will not likely do that going forward. They can pay me the 4p a mile rate for work only miles. The savings on private tax benefit will more than compensate.

I can't charge at work, I work remotely, from home. I will stick a charger on the house (7kw) and use the Octopus low night rate when I can. Looks like I will be using a different Aldi/Asda to. There are ones fairly close with chargers I dont use. Slight difference.

I am going to use a figure of £600 pa on the class 1a savings for the company. The FD can confirm that.

Glad to have asked, lots of great info on here.

 

[94jdh]

If you are in unfortunate position of being a separated parent - as the BIK is low ( average if 1% per year over 3 years) you'll be not only saving tax but also your declared gross income won't be artificially inflated with the cars BIK value.

 

[Chrisgillett]

All cars can claim 45p/mile as far as HMRC is concerned - for the first 10,000 miles a year. If your employer will only reimburse 4p you can claim tax relief on the remaining 41p.

That is VERY interesting.

 

[NewbieT]

Read the correction two posts below that!

 

[Chrisgillett]

Read the correction two posts below that!

 

[Mf03]

I think that is where I am heading too. Just doing the sums on 4ppm. With Octopus cheap nightime deal, its good. Not so great elsewhere. I am even looking at the local Aldi now for a top up when I can. I run a fully expensed 330e now, so I am doing the sums. What I lose in tax should cover it though, and then charge the company at the 4ppm.

All I need to do now is financially justify it, against a 330e, for next year. Lease costs v whole life running costs. I am kinda thinking I may need to order soon.

I’ve come from a 330e to M3P and had to justify the costs. I used service costs as well as Class 1 Nic that the company pay on the bik rate of the bmw. So on my old bimmer it was 13.8% of about £6500 so about £900 saving to them for the first year. Still wasn’t enough so sacrificed a pay rise to get it but saves me more than the pay rise would have been in my pocket every month.

 

[craigwbaker]

I’ve come from a 330e to M3P and had to justify the costs. I used service costs as well as Class 1 Nic that the company pay on the bik rate of the bmw. So on my old bimmer it was 13.8% of about £6500 so about £900 saving to them for the first year. Still wasn’t enough so sacrificed a pay rise to get it but saves me more than the pay rise would have been in my pocket every month.

Did they not take into account running costs over the lease?

 

[Mf03]

Did they not take into account running costs over the lease?

No, not really but I’m a low mileage user, only racked up 25k in 3 years in the old car and most of them would have been to and from work on electric which I just about managed in the summer so never claimed for the fuel allowance as it wasn’t worth it to me. Just claimed business miles back at 12p a mile,

 

[Anfieldgaz]

Hi all first post here. I've ordered a M3 SR+ as a Company car delivery early Feb. As this is done through a leasing company (lex) how does it all work with the tesla account etc. It's it in your name or the leasing company etc. Cheers in advance.