I tried it. I stressed even more because my mind refused to not convert to approximate miles and then stress abut that needlessly.
Basically, I'm screwed.
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Model 3: Charge to 80% or 90%?
- Thread starter Skibike
- Start date
Basically, I'm screwed.
I had my previous 2 cars set to show me "miles to empty" so for me, the miles display is more familiar. Also, I realize that the miles displayed are not the actual miles I am going to get, just like the "miles to empty" were never truly accurate.
PACEMD
Active Member
Try worrying about international terrorism instead, that works for a lot of people. Or the impending financial crisis if that's more your speed.......
HyperionMark
Member
I wish they had a third option where it was a "guess-o-meter" like the Leaf has. At least that takes into account the current driving situation. Of course, the way to do that on a Tesla is simply use the energy graph and see how many miles you have left based on the driving you've averaged over the last 5, 15, or 30. That combined with the percentage is my favorite combo.
A friend of mine worked on lithium-ion development. Here below is what I learned from him 5 years ago and somehow "confirmed" by Apple in iOS13 release.
Unlike phone/laptop with Lion battery, Tesla has battery cooling that we have to consider. The goal is to minimize any impact on the expensive battery.
1. charge slow. True for phone/computers with no "cooling system". There are people supercharging all of the time and not seeing much higher battery degradation, charging fast doesn't seem to impact much Tesla's battery.
2. stay between 20-80%. When going above 85+, plan the charge to end not so long before your departure but if you need 95+ , do leave ASAP to spend that extra energy. If you go below 5-10% , avoid to stay there too long. * See BMS note below
3. new Lion batteries are usually charged at factory at ~ 50%. If you store your car for a long time, aim 50% but staying between 35-65% should be just fine.
4. avoid 100% and 0%
Remember when Apple got caught slowing iPhone devices due to battery degradation? Maybe Tesla should do the same...
iOS 13 uses Optimized Battery Charging to slow the rate of battery aging by reducing the time that your iPhone spends fully charged. Your iPhone uses on-device machine learning to understand your daily charging routine so that it can wait until you need to use your iPhone to finish charging past 80 percent.*
Apple figured that keeping a battery healthier for a longer time will make customers happy and won't need to slow their phone. Kudos for that!
* BMS Note
The best way to balance the Model 3 pack is to set charge limit to 90% or higher and let the vehicle sit idle for hours (plugged in or not). 24 hours of balancing can reduce imbalance by 1mV.
I'm not sure how often this is required, might be based on usage of the battery?
Unlike phone/laptop with Lion battery, Tesla has battery cooling that we have to consider. The goal is to minimize any impact on the expensive battery.
1. charge slow. True for phone/computers with no "cooling system". There are people supercharging all of the time and not seeing much higher battery degradation, charging fast doesn't seem to impact much Tesla's battery.
2. stay between 20-80%. When going above 85+, plan the charge to end not so long before your departure but if you need 95+ , do leave ASAP to spend that extra energy. If you go below 5-10% , avoid to stay there too long. * See BMS note below
3. new Lion batteries are usually charged at factory at ~ 50%. If you store your car for a long time, aim 50% but staying between 35-65% should be just fine.
4. avoid 100% and 0%
Remember when Apple got caught slowing iPhone devices due to battery degradation? Maybe Tesla should do the same...
iOS 13 uses Optimized Battery Charging to slow the rate of battery aging by reducing the time that your iPhone spends fully charged. Your iPhone uses on-device machine learning to understand your daily charging routine so that it can wait until you need to use your iPhone to finish charging past 80 percent.*
Apple figured that keeping a battery healthier for a longer time will make customers happy and won't need to slow their phone. Kudos for that!
* BMS Note
The best way to balance the Model 3 pack is to set charge limit to 90% or higher and let the vehicle sit idle for hours (plugged in or not). 24 hours of balancing can reduce imbalance by 1mV.
I'm not sure how often this is required, might be based on usage of the battery?
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Yeah no idea what's typical but I guess it's fair to assume your battery is unbalanced if you never charge over 85%. Probably could check the brick voltages with one of those third-party CAN bus tools and see how unbalanced the pack has gotten.
The other thing is I've found is it's preferable to keep a low SoC for daily driving in winter, sounds counterintuitive but regen limits correlate with both temperature and SoC, even between 70% and 80% I see a big difference in the regen limits when the battery is chilled to ~7 C.
im new here too and this topic is the key one for sure..... from what i can see, IF i charged from 15/20% up to 100% every time it would likely impact by battery performance in 5-8 years time but only by possibly 5-15 miles (average).
seems like a VERY small price to pay for less frequent charging for the first 5 years of enjoyment?
so many variables.
i will be doing 15-20% up to 90% and just learn from there
seems like a VERY small price to pay for less frequent charging for the first 5 years of enjoyment?
so many variables.
i will be doing 15-20% up to 90% and just learn from there
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
I tend to alternate between 85-90% and try to be as close to 100% before setting off for a long run unless the next SC on my route puts me in the fastest part of the curve.
I am not an expert here, but that is counter to most conventional wisdom AND the advice from Tesla. The two main principles seem to be:
- A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla (this is directly from Tesla themselves)
- There is no advantage to going to a low (15-20%) SOC - plug the car in whenever practical.
For reasons, I do my daily charging at work. I charge to 80% most of the week and then to 90% EOD Friday (I try to minimize my charging at home).
HighZ
Member
I do the same - I will charge to 80% at work, then drive home and back (120 mi), arriving around 15-18% so far this winter, worst case was arriving around 10%. I then charge back up to 80%. I do this mainly to avoid spending my own money at home. I was charging to 50% at home for a while during the really cold temps.
I understand that there is no advantage to going to 20% or less (other than for me saving $8 a day), but does it harm the battery?
It is time spent outside the 20-70% ish range which causes the battery to age, so your regime may not do much harm, but you're better off charging more frequently than pushing towards the limits.
I guess I’m just paranoid about home charging.
In the uk I worry that somehow if I leave the car plugged in overnight it will still somehow cost me even after it hits 80% as it’s still plugged in. I wish there was a metre I could connect to the home charger to show exactly the amount of kWh that has been taken from the grid to my car....so I feel confident
Paranoid I guess
In the uk I worry that somehow if I leave the car plugged in overnight it will still somehow cost me even after it hits 80% as it’s still plugged in. I wish there was a metre I could connect to the home charger to show exactly the amount of kWh that has been taken from the grid to my car....so I feel confident
Paranoid I guess
It will likely "cost you" something if you leave it plugged in, because the car still runs systems. It wouldnt cost you anything "more" though, because the car will run those systems anyway and the car's battery will lose charge, so you will have "more" to charge back up when you plug it back in.... at least thats how I think about it.
So, dont plug it in, let the car use the battery some, or plug in, and use wall ("shore" power). There are also some things that likely only happen when you plug in, like balancing, etc.
Because its a battery and its expensive, people stress about it, but unless one enjoys obsessing about it, keeping it simple works.
HighZ
Member
I know people have installed meters and some chargers even come with cloud-based measurement.
I see on TeslaFi that after my car completes a charge, it might charge again 3-4 times during the night, but they show about .1 kWh used for the fees mins it is topping off so almost no cost.
Remember when Apple got caught slowing iPhone devices due to battery degradation? Maybe Tesla should do the same...
iOS 13 uses Optimized Battery Charging to slow the rate of battery aging by reducing the time that your iPhone spends fully charged. Your iPhone uses on-device machine learning to understand your daily charging routine so that it can wait until you need to use your iPhone to finish charging past 80 percent.*
Apple figured that keeping a battery healthier for a longer time will make customers happy and won't need to slow their phone. Kudos for that!
Apple is in a different usage catagory... People run their phones full to empty every day (some more than once a day) for 2 years before they start the throttling.
If you go 100% to lets say 10% every day in a LR Tesla, it is lets say 270+ miles a day, in 2 years it is around 200k miles. While I saw an article of a model 3 having 100k miles on it already, most do not drive 100k a year.
Tesla of course encourages only 90% charged on a daily basis, and they have a percentage of the battery blocked from use to prevent 0%, which does not show on the driver's gauges.
I trust Tesla to have figured out the best battery management for their particular battery chemistry (which is different from everyone else, and evolves continuously).
"The best way to balance the Model 3 pack is to set charge limit to 90% or higher and let the vehicle sit idle for hours (plugged in or not)."
Set it to 90% and forget about it ... everything else is fluff.
83.4% Monday, Wednesday and Friday. 85.6% on Tuesday and Thursday. 90% on Saturday. Rest on Sunday.
Like I mentioned above, you need several days - maybe even a week to 10 days - over 90% to really get things back into balance ... This is good, but give it some more time over the 85% threshold and see what happens.
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