Model 3 entry via ... keycard & app. No fob.

[mojo.k]

I bet there will be a ke

errr. no post editing on these forums? I mean to say that I think there will be a key fob, that you can pay for.

 

[gregincal]

I have done BTLE beacons before iBeacon protocol even existed. And again, they are not instant detection. On iPhones, 90% percentile detection occurs within 10 seconds, on android devices, its longer and very inconsistent between device manufacturers, and some, outright terrible. Even then there are other issues like device is monitoring too many iBeacons, then the delay is much longer. Other issues include temperamental things like if the user kills the app from task switcher, iOS prevents the app from waking up in background from things like beacon region entry (ibeacon detection) and other host of things that make it good enough for non-mission critical tasks.

Opening a car door while phone is in pocket is mission critical IMO. Working 95% of the time is not enough. The 5% will annoy the crap out of users.

My prediction is that you've described basically the way it works, and the 5% will,annoy the crap out of users. I hope I'm wrong. One thing is that the detection can happen at a longer range and then the unlock happens when you get closer, so the 10 or whatever seconds take place as you are walking towards the car.

 

[S'toon]

errr. no post editing on these forums? I mean to say that I think there will be a key fob, that you can pay for.

You have to make a certain amount of posts before you can edit. Also there's a limited time frame to do it. Not really short, but you can't go back hours or days later and edit it.

 

[BluestarE3]

508 posts (Including mine) speculating about how Model 3 unlocking/locking will work, and no end in sight...

Ah, but a fair number of those posts veered into the territory of how old geezers like me who don't have a smartphone are either not deserving of a Model 3 or will be reluctant to buy one because of our fear of new technology. So, I'm glad at least that the conversation has returned to speculating about how remote unlocking/locking may work (or not).

 

[diamond.g]

That and the price now that we have a better idea of what it is. Your AWD performance model is going to cost 70k.

I've not read all the 20+ pages - but weren't there comments earlier on about not wanting the car to be unlocked based on BT just because you are somewhat near by ?

I have done BTLE beacons before iBeacon protocol even existed. And again, they are not instant detection. On iPhones, 90% percentile detection occurs within 10 seconds, on android devices, its longer and very inconsistent between device manufacturers, and some, outright terrible. Even then there are other issues like device is monitoring too many iBeacons, then the delay is much longer. Other issues include temperamental things like if the user kills the app from task switcher, iOS prevents the app from waking up in background from things like beacon region entry (ibeacon detection) and other host of things that make it good enough for non-mission critical tasks.

Opening a car door while phone is in pocket is mission critical IMO. Working 95% of the time is not enough. The 5% will annoy the crap out of users.

Uh, I am pretty sure Tesla has been using BLE with the Model X for the auto present doors, with RFID as a backup. New key fob coming with Bluetooth LE? That thread is from 2015, and even then it was speculated that they could move the fob functionality to a phone instead of a dedicated fob.

 

[JoaoD]

For the ones that still have questions about the phone unlocking try replacing the word phone with fob in your question. It will work the same way the Model X Bluetooth fob works. It has been working for years with other Tesla Models, why is it that moving the function over the phone would now suddenly not work for any scenario that the fob works?

 

[mongo]

For the ones that still have questions about the phone unlocking try replacing the word phone with fob in your question. It will work the same way the Model X Bluetooth fob works. It has been working for years with other Tesla Models, why is it that moving the function over the phone would now suddenly not work for any scenario that the fob works?

The major issue I see is whether the phone's OS supports the functionality the fob had. It looks like this type of thing CAN be done with iOS now per Core Bluetooth Background Processing for iOS Apps Section:
Performing Long-Term Actions in the Background

In general, an advantage the 3 has is that the door latch can be electronically activated (as shown by the push button exit on the inner handle). This makes the timing much more flexible vs standard handles which do not unlock if the handle is already up when the unlock activation happens (common with passengers and RKE). This may allow the car to delay taking any action until the door handle itself is pulled.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Once connected, BT devices know what the RSSI (Signal strength) is to the other device, so they will disable/enable functions accordingly.

The issue is initial connection speed. Phones now optimizes for power very aggressively and generally don't optimize for initial connection delay in bluetooth when screen is off, when screen is ON, it scans at a much faster rate. I've worked with bluetooth for 2 years and that is my experience. Not saying BT is bad, just that inherit nature of how it works doesn't give it the ability to work as seamlessly and reliably as a key fob in this scenario.

at least with Android Nougat, you can override some of the sleeping functionality of an app. That's to say, much like Android Wear, you can keep the Tesla app awake in the background, to allow for faster connection with the car.

 

[gregincal]

For the ones that still have questions about the phone unlocking try replacing the word phone with fob in your question. It will work the same way the Model X Bluetooth fob works. It has been working for years with other Tesla Models, why is it that moving the function over the phone would now suddenly not work for any scenario that the fob works?

When my son runs ahead of me to the car I reach into my pocket and double click the fob to unlock the car. I can also unlock the frunk (where I put my groceries) with one hand reaching into my pocket.

Besides that my questions aren't about the general features, but the specifics of the implementation like reliability.

 

[dsvick]

If I leave my fob in the S, it locks after a timeout (handles retract, mirrors fold). To unlock, I touch the handle and it'll just open since the fob is within proximity.

Thanks, I got the same info from the tesla forum. That makes this setup a bit more convenient than a FOB. If my wife wants to leave her purse (and phone) in the car, she would only need to turn off Bluetooth, lock it in the trunk and all is well. If the keycard is NFC and is locked in the trunk/frunk it should be out of range so the car wont think it's there.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Thanks, I got the same info from the tesla forum. That makes this setup a bit more convenient than a FOB. If my wife wants to leave her purse (and phone) in the car, she would only need to turn off Bluetooth, lock it in the trunk and all is well. If the keycard is NFC and is locked in the trunk/frunk it should be out of range so the car wont think it's there.

Another thing to note: You could buy one of those privacy sleeves to block the NFC signal if you're worried about the keycard still being within range. But from my experiences with Android Pay, you pretty much have to be making contact with the sensor for NFC to work. The card should be fine in the trunk.

 

[Zaphod]

When my son runs ahead of me to the car I reach into my pocket and double click the fob to unlock the car. I can also unlock the frunk (where I put my groceries) with one hand reaching into my pocket.

Besides that my questions aren't about the general features, but the specifics of the implementation like reliability.

Those are my biggest questions, how we open the frunk and trunk with this bluetooth and keycard method. I wonder if it something like Ford has where you "kick" your foot under the rear bumper and the trunk will unlatch. Frunk would be more tricky to do similar since it is lower to the ground.

 

[dsvick]

Handles retract and mirrors fold doesn't mean it's locked, the car will do that even if you have walk away lock turned off

On the other hand, if the handles are retracted you can't open the door anyway

 

[derekmw]

I posted this in another thread but one problem I have with my current MS and with this new system on the M3 is that if you're alone and need to lock the car and go into the water, you're stuck. when you surf, you typically take the key portion off the fob, lock the car using they key, and only take the metal key portion with you. However, with the MS Fob, you can't do that.

Not sure if the M3's card can be taken with you in salt water but if not, it's again a problem with anyone who wants to do out door activities and can't take an electronic item with them. I can't surf with the fob or my phone so I'm left with the problem of how to secure the car.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I posted this in another thread but one problem I have with my current MS and with this new system on the M3 is that if you're alone and need to lock the car and go into the water, you're stuck. when you surf, you typically take the key portion off the fob, lock the car using they key, and only take the metal key portion with you. However, with the MS Fob, you can't do that.

Not sure if the M3's card can be taken with you in salt water but if not, it's again a problem with anyone who wants to do out door activities and can't take an electronic item with them. I can't surf with the fob or my phone so I'm left with the problem of how to secure the car.

I've heard the card is similar to many NFC badges. I've accidentally washed a work badge once or twice and was always able to get in the doors at work the next day. If true, you should be able to turn your phone off (or turn off BT) so the car doesn't "see" a key inside, lock it, and carry the keycard.

 

[derekmw]

I've heard the card is similar to many NFC badges. I've accidentally washed a work badge once or twice and was always able to get in the doors at work the next day. If true, you should be able to turn your phone off (or turn off BT) so the car doesn't "see" a key inside, lock it, and carry the keycard.

That's my hope, although my other worry is:
- frequent exposure to salt water
- bending the key (it doesn't necessarily look that sturdy) while moving around with the key card somewhere in wetsuit/swimming trunks pocket

 

[Garlan Garner]

I thought Teslas card was listed as an NFC. I can remotely read any active RFID remotely. Our Robots utilize active RFID on purpose....so that they can remotely authorize communications between them.
Passive RFID's are a little more safe but won't fit our application needs here.

Anywhoo......

 

[N5329K]

No surprises here, but to me the whole approach of having your car's functionality linked to your phone is as awkward and "futuristic" (in the worst sense) as this abomination.
Robin

 

[electracity]

The chart suggests NFC always has power. That suggest to me that the card is RFID. Either can probably be made water proof.

I'm sure Tesla has been through the exercise of considering key and key fob uses. As I said earlier I think we are missing a piece of information. I'm predicting a reveal. The stuff revealed will be available in the S/X before customers get M3.

The M3 has a new key card system, a fancy vent control, porn camera, new UI, and coat hooks. This makes S/X buyers sad.

I thought Teslas card was listed as an NFC. I can remotely read any active RFID remotely. Our Robots utilize active RFID on purpose....so that they can remotely authorize communications between them.
Passive RFID's are a little more safe but won't fit our application needs here.

Anywhoo......

View attachment 239284

 

[Garlan Garner]

The chart suggests NFC always has power. That suggest to me that the card is RFID. Either can probably be made water proof.

I'm sure Tesla has been through the exercise of considering key and key fob uses. As I said earlier I think we are missing a piece of information. I'm predicting a reveal. The stuff revealed will be available in the S/X before customers get M3.

The M3 has a new key card system, a fancy vent control, porn camera, new UI, and coat hooks. This makes S/X buyers sad.

I don't see where power is listed on the NFC side of the picture, however I don't care. All of our Dell NFC ( Contactless security ) cards here are passive ( no batteries ). Maybe Tesla's card is a contactless security card. I'm not going to argue about it.