Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

[mpgxsvcd]

Not one person has replicated your results. Getting to 2.5 requires a massive increase in power. More than the ludicrous is expected to have

You are wrong. I no longer have the 0-60 MPH record. Someone else did 2.98 seconds without rollout subtracted and others are getting close.

 

[terranx]

You are wrong. I no longer have the 0-60 MPH record. Someone else did 2.98 seconds without rollout subtracted and others are getting close.

Sure. Probably while they’re going downhill with a tailwind.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Ask yourself this. Would Tesla intentionally cripple their brand new Performance version of the Model 3 to protect the declining and almost irrelevant sales of the Model X Plaid that even Musk admits they make simply because they can? Model 3 Performance already matches the Model S LR in 0-60 mph acceleration. Why did they let those two cars have the same 0-60 mph metric?

What car or other brand do they need to beat so desperately they need this car to be so much quicker?

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Tesla has been fairly consistent at actually maintaining the product differentiation between the various monikers. All Plaids thus far have been faster than all ludicrous models, all ludicrous models have been faster than all performance models.

They have never had a Ludicrous Model 3 before. Of course the Plaid Model S is quicker than a Ludicrous Model S. What kind of assertion is that?

 

[terranx]

They have never had a Ludicrous Model 3 before. Of course the Plaid Model S is quicker than a Ludicrous Model S. What kind of assertion is that?

Said differentiation applies across models. Model X Plaid is faster than Model S Ludicrous. Model X ludicrous is faster than model 3/Y/S performance models without ludicrous. Similarly I fully expect model X plaid to remain faster than model 3 ludicrous.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

What car or other brand do they need to beat so desperately they need this car to be so much quicker?

Hyundai Ioniq 5N. People think that car is quicker than it really is. They need the Model 3 Ludicrous to be much quicker than it.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Said differentiation applies across models. Model X Plaid is faster than Model S Ludicrous. Model X ludicrous is faster than model 3/Y/S performance models without ludicrous. Similarly I fully expect model X plaid to remain faster than model 3 ludicrous.

It certainly will be quicker in the 1/4 mile but they could be very similar if not the same in 0-60 mph.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Hyundai Ioniq 5N. People think that car is quicker than it really is. They need the Model 3 Ludicrous to be much quicker than it.

Hyundai Ioniq 5N is £7k more than what the M3P last cost in the UK before it went off sale. With the release of the Highland Tesla actually dropped the price of the SR and LR in the UK, up to £3k so following that logic a M3P Highland could be £10k cheaper than an Ioniq 5N. That's $12.5k in your greenbacks.

Are you prepared to pay $12.5k more for a Model 3 Ludicrous Plaid and lose the $7.5k US EV rebate I believe to get your 0.4 second faster 0-60 time? I suspect you aren't and I imagine most consumers globally also wouldn't be prepared for that.

So Ioniq 5N can be faster as it's also quite a bit more expensive. I'm sure Tesla could make the car even quicker but they also likely have a price point they want to hit. More speed is always possible with more money but you've got to draw the line. If you have more money, buy a Plaid as unlike me you have that option.

I fully believe the Model 3 will get down to 2.5 seconds in the future. As batteries improve and costs drop, it'll happen without having to increase the price. I think they'll give us the best they feel they can offer now without really moving the price from what it used to be.

 

[jjrandorin]

Maybe this discussion also belongs in that other thread that was started to keep this one on the vaporware.

It probably needed to be moved to the other thread, but I was also trying to be a bit accommodating.

I will also confirm I asked @mpgxsvcd to stop posting dragy results in this thread, since they had been posted several times in response to X or Y. I appreciate them for listening to my request. If anyone is interested in their specific run reports that are not in this thread, please feel free to reach out to them via PM or something, I am sure they would be happy to share proof of various dragy runs if desired.

 

[cptnslo]

I

Plaid is a tri motor 1,000+ HP vehicle. The Model X Plaid weighs well over 1,000 lbs more than a Model 3. At some point physics makes it impossible to differentiate between the Model X Plaid and a fully optimized Model 3 Ludicrous for 0-60 mph if Tesla wants to keep up with other manufactures.

Ask yourself this. Would Tesla intentionally cripple their brand new Performance version of the Model 3 to protect the declining and almost irrelevant sales of the Model X Plaid that even Musk admits they make simply because they can? Model 3 Performance already matches the Model S LR in 0-60 mph acceleration. Why did they let those two cars have the same 0-60 mph metric?

because the S LR 60-130 times are significantly faster if you’re comparing those 2.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Hyundai Ioniq 5N is £7k more than what the M3P last cost in the UK before it went off sale. With the release of the Highland Tesla actually dropped the price of the SR and LR in the UK, up to £3k so following that logic a M3P Highland could be £10k cheaper than an Ioniq 5N. That's $12.5k in your greenbacks.

Are you prepared to pay $12.5k more for a Model 3 Ludicrous Plaid and lose the $7.5k US EV rebate I believe to get your 0.4 second faster 0-60 time? I suspect you aren't and I imagine most consumers globally also wouldn't be prepared for that.

So Ioniq 5N can be faster as it's also quite a bit more expensive. I'm sure Tesla could make the car even quicker but they also likely have a price point they want to hit. More speed is always possible with more money but you've got to draw the line. If you have more money, buy a Plaid as unlike me you have that option.

I fully believe the Model 3 will get down to 2.5 seconds in the future. As batteries improve and costs drop, it'll happen without having to increase the price. I think they'll give us the best they feel they can offer now without really moving the price from what it used to be.

All Model 3s in the US have now lost the entire $7,500 tax credit unless you lease them then all Tesla vehicles get the full $7,500 tax credit. Tesla is still selling every single Model 3 LR they can make and then some without the tax credit. I don't know why people think Tesla will make sure the Model 3 Ludicrous has the tax credit when the Model 3 LR doesn't have it?

 

[Knightshade]

All Model 3s in the US have now lost the entire $7,500 tax credit unless you lease them then all Tesla vehicles get the full $7,500 tax credit. Tesla is still selling every single Model 3 LR they can make and then some without the tax credit. I don't know why people think Tesla will make sure the Model 3 Ludicrous has the tax credit when the Model 3 LR doesn't have it?

Possibly you're unaware that Tesla has made very very few Model 3 LR in the US this year since the highland refresh? The ramp has been terrible- with folks who ordered in January still waiting in April for a VIN.

So we've no idea how well the actual sales are going becuase supply is almost non-existant. Once it ramps back to pre-refresh output it's entirely possible they DO NOT "sell every single" one they can make without the credit.

Also, the P used different batteries than the 3 LR for the last while--- the ones in the 3LR do not qualify for the credit. The ones in the P (if they use the same as they did last year) do.

The only reason it wouldn't qualify (if they keep those same us-made 2170s in there) is if it's priced above 55k.

 

[FastLaneJB]

All Model 3s in the US have now lost the entire $7,500 tax credit unless you lease them then all Tesla vehicles get the full $7,500 tax credit. Tesla is still selling every single Model 3 LR they can make and then some without the tax credit. I don't know why people think Tesla will make sure the Model 3 Ludicrous has the tax credit when the Model 3 LR doesn't have it?

Well that's because the SR and LR in the US now have a Chinese sourced battery but the Ludicrous is still rumoured to have the Panasonic US produced battery in the Ludicrous so they merely need to hit the right price point don't they and it'll qualify.

Highland is newer in the US but China / Europe had them earlier and I think the initial demand wave is already running out or has run out. Once the people that are in the know and want the new shiny have one, it'll slow down. You can see from their latest report that their overall car shipment numbers are well down, globally they have a massive demand problem at the moment.

So if I look the Long Range is close to $48k in the US and a Model S Plaid is $80k. So your saying Model 3 Ludicrous at say $60k and should have same 0-60 time as a Model X Plaid? I mean that's still less than the Ioniq 5 N which looks to be $67k in the US. Or you want the Model 3 Ludicrous to be at $55k so also get the tax credit but still blow the Ioniq 5 N out of the water with a 2.5 second with rollout 0-60?

I mean no one knows, you might be right. It's just not what I think they'll announce.

 

[terranx]

The only reason it wouldn't qualify (if they keep those same us-made 2170s in there) is if it's priced above 55k.

Which is what I expect to happen unless they want to just discontinue the AWD model in the US like before.

 

[cptnslo]

Which is what I expect to happen unless they want to just discontinue the AWD model in the US like before.

I’m still fully expecting 60-62k

 

[terranx]

Model 3 Performance already matches the Model S LR in 0-60 mph acceleration. Why did they let those two cars have the same 0-60 mph metric?

I had missed this part of your post. The reason is because the model S LR isn't a performance model. The M3P has basically always butted right up against the non performance S.

The S LR is also being limited pretty hard down low, probably to maintain separation from the Plaid. *That's* a car that's probably capable of a 2.7 0-60 or so if Tesla let it.

 

[robl45]

Guys…this is a $60k MAX car get a plaid for $90k or M3 Comp xDrive for $85k if you want the fastest car on the strip.

Everyone has been throwing wild af expectations in this *one hundred and fifty eight* page thread for MONTHS now.

We need to keep it real and say that 2.9 seconds is NOT a disappointment for a $60k or less car. What else is even close to this for the same money?

disappointment unless you plan on only getting new users. What current user is running out to trade for that? Car is listed as 3.1 now and does 2.99 in the right hands. Is 2.9 legit,is it really faster, I don't know, but unless its 2.7 I'm not running to buy.

 

[terranx]

disappointment unless you plan on only getting new users. What current user is running out to trade for that? Car is listed as 3.1 now and does 2.99 in the right hands. Is 2.9 legit,is it really faster, I don't know, but unless its 2.7 I'm not running to buy.

I think there's a decent chunk who are okay with the current 0-60 and would upgrade for the other improvements (highland general improvements, seats, suspension, high-speed acceleration). This car will almost certainly have a much quicker quarter mile regardless of what the 0-60 is. Even currently daily driving a Plaid, the 0-60 in the model 3 performance always felt reasonably quick for 0-60 pulls. It's the top end that sucks.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Possibly you're unaware that Tesla has made very very few Model 3 LR in the US this year since the highland refresh? The ramp has been terrible- with folks who ordered in January still waiting in April for a VIN.

So we've no idea how well the actual sales are going becuase supply is almost non-existant. Once it ramps back to pre-refresh output it's entirely possible they DO NOT "sell every single" one they can make without the credit.

Also, the P used different batteries than the 3 LR for the last while--- the ones in the 3LR do not qualify for the credit. The ones in the P (if they use the same as they did last year) do.

The only reason it wouldn't qualify (if they keep those same us-made 2170s in there) is if it's priced above 55k.

Could you show me some real data that says how many Highland Model 3 LR cars have been produced this year? Don't confuse the fact that people that ordered white seats haven't got their cars yet with "Tesla has made very very few Model 3 LR in the US this year".

 

[CKwik240]

I think some of you guys are putting a little too much weight on that non-linearity. Just because it’s not a linear relationship doesn’t make what he’s saying false. What the article actually shows is that neither of you are *wrong*

You’re just focused on it from different perspectives, trying to be right, and unable to accept that it nuanced like almost everything else in life. Non-linear does not mean that weight differences have no bearing on braking distance, but it does mean that the difference comes down to more than just the weight.
The nonlinearity described in the article and graph attached make it look to me like the real world difference would be “in the noise” if we were able to test it with actual cars on pavement somewhere.

Maybe this discussion also belongs in that other thread that was started to keep this one on the vaporware.

Not trying to detail this thread so I'll just say this. The equation separates the components of friction, but in practice, they are combined. Much like rotational and translational motion of a wheel. This isn't a situation like ignoring relativistic physics and non-relativistic velocities...I chimed in to try and help settle the argument so the discussion could get back on track... Bottom line, the effects of weight on your friction are relevant. The science backs it.