Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Model 3 LR/P - 170 mile commute suitability

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
In my experience 20% reduction in range isn’t out of the question.
EDIT: not sure you meant for rain or the vehicle type…

For vehicle type:

I have a Performance and my brother has an LR (actually a Stealth Performance) We see a difference of around 20Wh/mi on similar stretches at freeway speeds. Works out to be around 5-8% (depending on the speed of course).

20% impact would suggest that at 80mph the range of the LR is 295 miles and the Performance is 247 miles. (Both to 0%, 77kWh.) This is definitely not what would be observed.


20% impact in range due to rain - yeah I could see 20% in bad rain.
 
Last edited:

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
Given all the stuff this OP laid out (in Arkansas, not CA where charging is plentiful, no real charging on the way, no work charging, 170 real miles round trip, 50 weeks a year), I wouldnt do it in a model 3, unless perhaps I was leasing it (or work was paying for it) and work was going to let me charge there, even if it was on 120v while sitting there.

Yeah I agree it is on the edge, sort of, in worst case scenarios.

For your ~50% increases in the range used, it is of course difficult to separate out heating impacts (much less of an issue for the OP due to the heat pump).

Also it rains a lot in California when it rains, so yes, that kind of rain definitely seems like it could be impactful even without heating losses. I have such a short commute here it's impossible for me to measure the impact accurately, with all the other overhead factors (heating, etc.).

I agree it’s a close use case, and it’s really thrashing the car, but assuming low electricity prices (no idea in Arkansas, Google says 11 cents/kWh), it would save about $2000 per year or more in energy cost, see above for assumptions, which is not nothing.

Keep in mind the vehicle has about 3-4% more energy than yours started with, too.
 
Last edited:

truckie6606

New Member
Aug 4, 2021
4
3
Arkansas
Can you tell us what the route is? Like city to city? Not specific addresses. I assuming Little Rock to somewhere around Clarksville.
Route is the west side of LR to Russellville. Other than a couple L2's at UCA and Hendrix in Conway, That's about it for charging currently. The EA station in Clarksville isn't really practical since it adds another 30-45min to the trip by going past the destination.
I agree it’s a close use case, and it’s really thrashing the car, but assuming low electricity prices (no idea in Arkansas), it would save about $2000 per year in energy cost, see above for assumptions, which is not nothing.
Electric in AR is pretty cheap...$0.10 - $0.11 per kwh residential rates. We'd ultimately look at solar sooner rather than later as we designed the house with open roof planes in optimal directions for solar when we built a couple years ago. We're a retail net metering state (at least for the next few years).

5 days per week / 50 weeks per year is absolute worst case. It'll likely end up settling on around 3 days per week and 45ish weeks per year once remote work options and actual PTO time are figured out. Still doesn't change the trip segment issues at normal pace of traffic and extreme weather conditions.

Surprisingly (given most other policies in this state), AR is investing about $250k annually of VW settlement money into L2 charging infrastructure (7kW minimum output) via rebate programs. At roughly $9k/$7.25k (gov't/non-gov't property) per dual outlet charger, that basically covers the hardware costs for anyone wanting to add the infrastructure for publicly available chargers. That may make the workplace charging conversation more likely to have a positive outcome.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: AlanSubie4Life

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
Route is the west side of LR to Russellville. Other than a couple L2's at UCA and Hendrix in Conway, That's about it for charging currently. The EA station in Clarksville isn't really practical since it adds another 30-45min to the trip by going past the destination.

Electric in AR is pretty cheap...$0.10 - $0.11 per kwh residential rates. We'd ultimately look at solar sooner rather than later as we designed the house with open roof planes in optimal directions for solar when we built a couple years ago. We're a retail net metering state (at least for the next few years).

5 days per week / 50 weeks per year is absolute worst case. It'll likely end up settling on around 3 days per week and 45ish weeks per year once remote work options and actual PTO time are figured out. Still doesn't change the trip segment issues at normal pace of traffic and extreme weather conditions.

Surprisingly (given most other policies in this state), AR is investing about $250k annually of VW settlement money into L2 charging infrastructure (7kW minimum output) via rebate programs. At roughly $9k/$7.25k (gov't/non-gov't property) per dual outlet charger, that basically covers the hardware costs for anyone wanting to add the infrastructure for publicly available chargers. That may make the workplace charging conversation more likely to have a positive outcome.

It's for sure a close call, but my biggest concern would be the thrashing of the car and not being able to use features at the destination. Not whether I could make it. It's nearly all interstate so getting behind someone going your speed helps a lot.

Anyway, something to ponder. Note that ABRP is pretty pessimistic in its estimates these days. There's no way you're going to do 335Wh/mi on that stretch in a Performance (in ideal conditions). You'll be closer to 300Wh/mi.

A Better Routeplanner. (Note this is not the full distance.)

It would definitely be better if there were a fast charging option along the way. I guess you wait a few months and then see...
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,615
1,729
DFW
EDIT: not sure you meant for rain or the vehicle type…

For vehicle type:

I have a Performance and my brother has an LR (actually a Stealth Performance) We see a difference of around 20Wh/mi on similar stretches at freeway speeds. Works out to be around 5-8% (depending on the speed of course).

20% impact would suggest that at 80mph the range of the LR is 295 miles and the Performance is 247 miles. (Both to 0%, 77kWh.) This is definitely not what would be observed.


20% impact in range due to rain - yeah I could see 20% in bad rain.
Yes 20% reduction in moderate to heavy rain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlanSubie4Life

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,615
1,729
DFW
It's for sure a close call, but my biggest concern would be the thrashing of the car and not being able to use features at the destination. Not whether I could make it. It's nearly all interstate so getting behind someone going your speed helps a lot.

Anyway, something to ponder. Note that ABRP is pretty pessimistic in its estimates these days. There's no way you're going to do 335Wh/mi on that stretch in a Performance (in ideal conditions). You'll be closer to 300Wh/mi.

A Better Routeplanner. (Note this is not the full distance.)

It would definitely be better if there were a fast charging option along the way. I guess you wait a few months and then see...
Maybe in a stealth or with some lighter wheels but with the original 20” boat anchors mid 300’s was almost always the rule for me at 75-80 in ideal weather.

The new UT’s look a touch more aerodynamic.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
Maybe in a stealth or with some lighter wheels but with the original 20” boat anchors mid 300’s was almost always the rule for me at 75-80 in ideal weather.
I have lifetime 285Wh/mi, and a lot of that was on the 20” wheels (though I have swapped temporarily to other wheels at times).

Always tough to dial in on exactly. I think mid-300s is more 80-85mph.

For this journey I think below 300Wh/mi, especially if there is anyone else on the road, is perfectly doable in ideal conditions.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: ElectricIAC

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
Drove one of our 21 M3 LRAWD's in May from 100% to 7%, 287 miles, temps in the upper 80's lower 90's. Speed varied from 55 to 75-80 mph.
240-245Wh/mi. Seems about right for those speeds in that vehicle and tires/wheels.

If a Performance is really desired here, of course the same can be accomplished with it, with proper equipment. Just make sure those wheels are aerodynamic, as well as swapping tires.

When new, have to get ~450Wh/mi to not make the proposed trip (~470Wh/mi if you use the buffer). Numbers go down from there, proportionate to capacity loss. Unlikely you’ll ever need to do better than about 390Wh/mi (to 0%, not using buffer).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dmurphy and tstolze

dmurphy

Active Member
Supporting Member
Dec 7, 2018
3,922
5,542
New Jersey - Morris County
When new, have to get ~450Wh/mi to not make the proposed trip (~470Wh/mi if you use the buffer). Numbers go down from there, proportionate to capacity loss. Unlikely you’ll ever need to do better than about 390Wh/mi (to 0%, not using buffer).

Even in the dead of the Northeast winter, 390Wh/mi is perfectly reasonable.
And I wouldn’t avoid buying a car based on a “maybe” once or twice a year. On the very very fringe worst day, plugged into a 120V outlet while at work would be fine if there were any concern. Should have no issue pulling 8-10kWh during an 8 hour workday which would be plenty to get into “comfortable” territory. Or stopping at some L2 charger along the way home for 20 minutes.
Or, when the weather is THAT bad, working from home.
But a 170mi commute shouldn’t be a problem. Really. If the weather is that bad (snow/rain/etc), you’re not doing 80mph anyway.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: ElectricIAC

Gauss Guzzler

Safety Score = 7
Dec 27, 2020
677
875
Thousand Oaks, California
I agree with most of the responses here, 170 miles is perfectly fine and should only use about 50% of the battery.

For reference my commute is at 85mph up/down a never ending series of large steep hills with the A/C cranking and I average 300Wh/mi with my big sticky performance tires. So even I could go 170 miles on 50% charge.

That said, I seriously doubt she needs track mode and that extra bit of eyeball smushing on her ridiculous commute. Get the LR and enjoy the vastly more comfortable and cheaper tires.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
300Wh/mi with my big sticky performance tires. So even I could go 170 miles on 50% charge.
300Wh/mi for 170 miles is 51kWh.

This is 68% of the 74.5kWh above 0% (so not including buffer) for 2018-2020 Model 3 (and early 2021 LR). Assuming new, no capacity loss.

It is 66% of the 76.9kWh above 0% for the latest 2021 Model 3 (both Performance AND LR now). Again, no capacity loss.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC

Gauss Guzzler

Safety Score = 7
Dec 27, 2020
677
875
Thousand Oaks, California
Haha, yeah math is hard ;) I was thinking of the LR model with a more reasonable consumption rate in the mid 200's.

Point still stands though, even going uphill at 85mph with Performance tires there's over 30% to spare making that commute a comfortable 90% start / 20% finish. Battery degradation is a non-issue because no human could endure that commute for enough years to reach the point where degradation has made the trip impossible.
 
Last edited:

c0a8l0v6i8n9

Member
Apr 22, 2021
5
8
NY
I drive 130 miles a day in my SR+. Charge to 90%, get home with between 20-30%. 75% is highway with an average of 245 wh/mi. I haven't dealt with winter yet so depending on how cold it gets I may have to charge to 100%
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC

Jeremy3292

Gas Is Slow
Jul 7, 2021
687
646
South Carolina
Story checks out for a 2021 SR+:

130mi*245Wh/mi/(53500Wh*0.955*0.99) = 63%
What is a realistic consumption in 70 degree weather going 75mph on the interstate for an 82 kWh LR? I don’t have a LR personally but my guess would be somewhere around 290 Wh/mile. My quick math would suggest somewhere around 265 miles realistic highway range (without using the reserve). Thoughts?
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,615
1,729
DFW
What is a realistic consumption in 70 degree weather going 75mph on the interstate for an 82 kWh LR? I don’t have a LR personally but my guess would be somewhere around 290 Wh/mile. My quick math would suggest somewhere around 265 miles realistic highway range (without using the reserve). Thoughts?
I think ~230-235 staying in a comfortable range assuming 300wh/mi average.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlanSubie4Life

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
I don’t have a LR personally but my guess would be somewhere around 290 Wh/mile. My quick math would suggest somewhere around 265 miles realistic highway range (without using the reserve). Thoughts?
Those aero wheels and tires help considerably, so I'd expect more like 270-280Wh/mi for the LR for that scenario. (I don't have one, so I am definitely guessing.) My brother has a Stealth though, and this seems in the ballpark from the numbers I've seen him get for ideal, high-speed Seattle to Portland runs (250Wh/mi) - a little slower than 75mph on average though. Obviously other cars on the road here is a factor - I would not expect this low on a deserted highway.

For reference, I recently did a 2600-mile trip in my Performance from SD to Seattle & back (but was not on interstate most of the way (395 and east of Sierras/Cascades), so was usually at more like 65-70mph), and I averaged 270Wh/mi with a fully loaded vehicle. I had CrossClimate 2 installed which are not as good as the MXM4s for efficiency, and my wheels are not aerodynamic at all (Konig Dekagrams).

Anyway assuming 270Wh/mi, for the new 2021 "82kWh" LR you have 76.9kWh to work with (not including buffer) and 1% heat loss somewhere, so it ends up about (76.9kWh*0.99)/270Wh/mi = 282 miles.

But that's to 0% (but still, doesn't include the buffer), so if you go for 5%, which is not particularly stressful, you end up at ~268 miles (270Wh/mi, 100%->5%).

On prior generations of the car, this worked out to be 260 miles. With capacity loss, most of those cars can now do about 235-240 miles. (I can do about 235 miles at that consumption to 5%.)
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,167
14,157
San Diego
For the OP, these wheels in this thread might be of interest when shopping for winter tires, if he goes with the Performance:


It can be debated how much they would matter (my guess is they aren't strictly necessary for this application), but I do think they would help. The weight of the wheel of course does not matter to any appreciable extent.

I probably should have got a set of these instead of the Dekagrams. But I do like cheap!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top