Model 3 On-board AC Charger, do you mind?

[JeffK]

Tesla has already gone from 80 amps down to 72 amps which is a big step backwards in my opinion.

Was there a source that said there was even an 80 amp onboard charger? I always thought the wall connector was 80 amps and the onboard charger only ever went to 72 amps. It's alway a lot of trouble finding older technical resources.

Edit: Ahh some people are reporting there's no longer dual chargers but really single 72 amp charger.

Supposedly the Model 3 is to come with a charger that works anywhere in the world... I'm not sure if that's true or not be if so, it might be a totally different beast.

 

[Red Sage]

Any concerns I currently have regarding AC Charging options fall under the heading of 'Blame Canada'. Apparently, someone convinced lawmakers there that sustained charging of electric vehicles at high rates in residential applications was somehow 'dangerous'. So, rather than the 80% rule of thumb applied for decades for just about any Class 2 electric device in North America that has a UL, CE, or ETL rating is specifically ignored only in relation to electric vehicle charging equipment used in homes. Where it used to be possible to use a 100A circuit breaker to provide up to 80A to an electric car charger, the same circuit can only allow up to 72A to the car now. I have not seen any evidence to either suggest or prove that this change was necessary or safer in any way. But, I suppose it makes politicians feel better and allows a 'victory' of sorts by traditional automobile manufacturers and petroleum companies to know that home charging of electric vehicles is now at least a little less convenient than it was when Tesla's HPWC was first made available. At the same time, I do not believe that Tesla protested the move at all, they just redesigned the HPWC and limited it to a maximum output of 72A instead of 80A.

Home charging installation

 

[tga]

Uh, what? Nothing has changed re the continuous load rules and charging at 80% of the breaker's intermittent rating. The HPWC only needs a 90A breaker to charge at 72A. On a 100A circuit, it can still deliver 80A to a classic S with dual chargers.

 

[Red Sage]

Uh, what? Nothing has changed re the continuous load rules and charging at 80% of the breaker's intermittent rating. The HPWC only needs a 90A breaker to charge at 72A. On a 100A circuit, it can still deliver 80A to a classic S with dual chargers.

I believe I used the word 'now' somewhere above as a qualifier. The current version of the HPWC will not allow you to draw 80A from a 100A circuit. The original version of the HPWC will. No one with grandfathered in charging systems has to go back and reset them to lower charging rates, even in Canada. But if you'll take note, the 'upgraded' AC Charger that is built into the current Model S has a maximum of 72A. There is no longer a 'dual charger' option to draw up to 80A at all. Here, perhaps others can explain this better than I do:

New Model S Charging 48 amps/72 amps | Tesla Motors

 

[Yggdrasill]

In reality, it's a 10% step backwards.

For a top spec S/X in Europe, they went from 22 kW (32A three phase) to 16.5 kW (24A three phase), or a 25% reduction.

I think Tesla supplying anything less than a 11 kW 16A three phase charger in Europe for the Model 3 would be a big mistake. This is likely to become the standard for European BEVs going forward.

Large single phase loads (>16A) aren't very popular with power grid companies, as it's very hard to get the correct load distribution across the different phases, causing all sorts of problems. Many places here in Norway you have to send an application to the grid operator to be allowed to install a single phase breaker greater than 16A, and some of those places you will get a flat "No". Single phase charging is problematic to scale, as Europe moves from ~1% BEVs to 100% BEVs.

So, I would consider a 11 kW 16A three phase charger as the bare minimum. 22 kW 32A three phase would be great, but I wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't rule out Tesla using basically the same charger as the facelift S/X.

 

[tga]

The current version of the HPWC will not allow you to draw 80A from a 100A circuit.

That's not correct. The current cars can't draw more than 72A, but the current HPWC can still supply 80A on a 100A circuit, unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks (and there's nothing I can find that says otherwise).

Current install manual, showing 80A/100A settings (see page 21) - https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/80A_Wall_Connector_Installation_Manual_EN_JP_ES_0.pdf

 

[Red Sage]

That's not correct. The current cars can't draw more than 72A, but the current HPWC can still supply 80A on a 100A circuit, unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks (and there's nothing I can find that says otherwise).

Current install manual, showing 80A/100A settings (see page 21) - https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/80A_Wall_Connector_Installation_Manual_EN_JP_ES_0.pdf

My apologies. I got ahead of myself there, it seems. Yes, it is the current AC Charger Upgrade in the car that won't allow you to draw 80A, but is limited to 72A. I think I was trying to say the same thing multiple ways and ended up confusing the issue. My bad. Part of the reason I included a link to another discussion, in case I flubbed it a bit.

 

[Darryl]

On a Tesla you get dual chargers no matter what, it's software limited to one.

Tesla is not like other manufacturers who simply don't install it at all.

With the size of the battery on the Model 3 I can see them not having this as an option on the Model 3. These chargers aren't used when you are using the Supercharger as it is DC to DC charging. You would only use them when connected to a L1/L2 charger. Most people woundnt need dual chargers.

 

[JeffK]

Most people woundnt need dual chargers.

I'd argue that there are more L1/L2 chargers than superchargers. I'd also argue that anyone who has a delivery or transportation service utilizing a fleet of Model 3s would need to charge as quickly as possible in any location.

Whether it's single or dual charger doesn't matter as long as whatever their new solution is can handle fast charge rates. We know it's been redesigned.