Model 3 Performance 0-200kph (124mph) times available?

[Knightshade]

The midrage model 3 is faster than what Tesla claims..... damn you Tesla with your dishonesty

Every non-P model 3 is faster than what Tesla claims.

That's why it's dishonest.

They only use rollout for the P to make the buyer think the P is quicker by a wider margin compared to the cheaper versions of the car.


When you go config a corvette at least Chevy is honest about the performance difference between trims. Ditto Ford on the different Mustangs, BMW on the various 3 series, and basically every other car company out there.

Tesla is the only one I'm aware of who deceptively does, or does not, use rollout segregated entirely based on price.


Even worse, they only added the disclaimer to admit they were doing that after protests (this is mentioned in the other thread I linked to) and have since made it increasingly harder to even find that disclaimer over time... hence the folks in this very thread that were apparently unaware Tesla was doing this.

 

[Zcd1]

Every non-P model 3 is faster than what Tesla claims....

Yeah, I fail to see deception on the part of Tesla on this.

ALL of Tesla's vehicles cars are actually quicker than they claim, so enjoy it!

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah, I fail to see deception on the part of Tesla on this.

ALL of Tesla's vehicles cars are actually quicker than they claim, so enjoy it!

Except, they're not.

The Ps do exactly what they claim (with rollout)

The non-Ps are .2-.3 faster (if you measure with rollout) because they use a different measurement for those than the Ps.

Not sure how you're confused about this being deceptive?

Especially given you pointed out all the car mags use the same measurement for all tested cars in order to provide consistent info, and you've now been shown Tesla is intentionally doing the opposite of that- using two different measurements depending on the trim of the car (and making it as difficult as possible for a buyer to even realize they're doing that).

 

[Zcd1]

...The Ps do exactly what they claim (with rollout)

The non-Ps are .2-.3 faster (if you measure with rollout) because they use a different measurement for those than the Ps....

Ya know, I really don't want to continue this debate, but since you're being difficult about it:

P100D: Telsa's claim (on the website RIGHT NOW) is 2.5 seconds 0-60.
Model S | Tesla

Motor Trend measured 2.3 seconds:
2018 Tesla Model S Reviews and Rating | Motortrend

100D: Tesla's claim is 4.1 seconds.
Model S | Tesla

Car and Driver measured 3.9 seconds:
Tesla Model S Reviews | Tesla Model S Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver

Model 3P: Tesla's claim: 3.3 seconds
Model 3 | Tesla

Motor Trend measured 3.2 seconds:
2018 Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor Performance Quick Test Review - Motor Trend

So again, how is Tesla being deceptive??

 

[juanmedina]

you will never win with knightshade

 

[PhatCat]

Ya know, I really don't want to continue this debate, but since you're being difficult about it:

P100D: Telsa's claim (on the website RIGHT NOW) is 2.5 seconds 0-60.
Model S | Tesla

Motor Trend measured 2.3 seconds:
2018 Tesla Model S Reviews and Rating | Motortrend

100D: Tesla's claim is 4.1 seconds.
Model S | Tesla

Car and Driver measured 3.9 seconds:
Tesla Model S Reviews | Tesla Model S Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver

Model 3P: Tesla's claim: 3.3 seconds
Model 3 | Tesla

Motor Trend measured 3.2 seconds:
2018 Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor Performance Quick Test Review - Motor Trend

So again, how is Tesla being deceptive??

I agree. Since Tesla uses different criteria across models to derive the numbers they publish, it is fair to say they are "inconsistent" in their ratings. But given that independent testers have measured each car *better* than Tesla's published claim, it's hardly fair to call Tesla deceptive.

Same thing with EPA mileage: it's within their right to ask the EPA sandbag the number for the LR as long as they don't claim it has more than the rated mileage when it doesn't.

Folks are complaining that Tesla underrates its products. Think it's better to spend less time on this forum and go drive my Tesla.

 

[Knightshade]

So again, how is Tesla being deceptive??

Because they are reporting P numbers using rollout, and non-P numbers without it.

And initially didn't even tell that to their customers at all- and only mention it now in a small print disclaimer they keep making harder to find.


How are you still not understanding this when you were the one who pointed out that for consistency the car mags (and all car makers other than Tesla) report all cars using roll out....which, again, Tesla is not doing for all their cars- only the Ps.

So by your own thinking Tesla is being deceptive by using a "faster" measuring method for the P than they use for all non-P models.


You, originally-

We can argue about whether "rollout" should be included or not, but that's been the NHRA/IHRA standard for decades, so that's why American magazines/testers report that way - for consistency.

Also you- when it's pointed out Tesla is NOT reporting rollout consistently across trims of their cars.

Yeah, I fail to see deception on the part of Tesla on this.

Where exactly did you get confused between those two posts?

 

[Knightshade]

Folks are complaining that Tesla underrates its products.

On the contrary- I'm complaining they dishonestly rate different products with different measurements but then make it very non-obvious that's what is happening.

Versus literally every other car company (and car magazine) in the world that instead uses the same measurements for all their models.

if they want to use measuring method X that underrates ALL their cars by X degrees- that'd be fine.

Underrating the cheaper ones, moreso than the expensive ones, by using two different measurements- to encourage sales of the more expensive ones though- that is dishonest.


Or to put it more simply- if you looked at Teslas listed 0-60 times and used that provided info to determine the actual difference in 0-60 between a P and a non-P of the same model, you would end up with a factually wrong answer that makes you think the P is "more faster" than the non P compared to reality.

Tesla knows this- and is doing that on purpose. And nobody else does this either.

How's that not deceptive or dishonest?

 

[DrSmile]

Having come from AWD S model Audis and an Evo, it's the consistency that's the amazing part of the P3D. A fast AWD car can bog or slip off the line, this doesn't really happen with slip start on in the P3D. It's delivers amazing, safe consistency. And roll out or not, it's ridiculously fast.

 

[Zcd1]

Because they are reporting P numbers using rollout, and non-P numbers without it...

So the specific examples I linked above that directly disprove your statements aren't enough to convince you?? Ohhhkay...

Then I bid you adieu, good man, and good luck.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Stage 2 2016 MK7 Golf R DSG and P3D+ owner here. The R shares the same powertrain/drivetrain as the Audi RS3.

R Mods:
High flow cat
ECU tune
DSG tune
Lower weight 18s
Michelin Pilot Super Sports
Transmission Dogbone insert
Rear crossmember inserts
Beefier rear sway

R Dragstrip stats:
60' 1.835s
330' 5.134s
1/8mi 7.916s @ 88.87 mph
1000' 10.343s
1/4mi 12.398s @ 110.48 mph

I'll be glad to get rid of the R. The P3D+ is in a whole other world. Silent insta torque with no fuss is a game changer. The Tesla is just so buttery smooth I could never go back to ICE. The R has signficant turbo lag to the point I'd have to run the transmission in Sport mode if I wanted it to be fun. Launch control while fun is something I only used a handful of times on city streets and maybe only once or twice while in traffic at stop light run out merge lanes. LC is to much of a cop magnet with an ICE brip brip brip blapping away with the exhaust.

I too was a bit worried ordering a P3D+ w/o a test drive. On paper the P3D+ looks a wee bit better and I was worried it would be more of a sideways move instead of an upgrade. Wrong. I <3 the Tesla.

The only nod I'd give to the R is since it's lighter and has decent highway gearing I feel that the 60-100mph romps it would be a car length ahead of the P3D+. But the x-60 punches the T provides is nucking futs. I just wish the T wouldn't run out of breath once it starts approaching triple digits.

I really need to get a buddy out to drive my R so we can do some head to head romping between the two before I finally sell the R.

 

[Zcd1]

Stage 2 2016 MK7 Golf R DSG and P3D+ owner here. The R shares the same powertrain/drivetrain as the Audi RS3.

R Dragstrip stats:

1/4mi 12.398s @ 110.48 mph
...
On paper the P3D+ looks a wee bit better and I was worried it would be more of a sideways move instead of an upgrade. Wrong. I <3 the Tesla.

The only nod I'd give to the R is since it's lighter and has decent highway gearing I feel that the 60-100mph romps it would be a car length ahead of the P3D+. But the x-60 punches the T provides is nucking futs. I just wish the T wouldn't run out of breath once it starts approaching triple digits.

I really need to get a buddy out to drive my R so we can do some head to head romping between the two before I finally sell the R.

Cool, welcome and congratulations on the new ride!

One thing though: The M3P does the 1/4 in 11.7 @ 116-ish, so it's still quite a bit quicker than your R, even from 60-100 and probably to 120.

C&D tested my previous S6 at 17.1 seconds 0-130, which is IDENTICAL to their results for the M3P, and from the times you posted, your R would have been no match for my S6...

 

[Mike Hawk]

Yeah, it's probably all in my head. Without all the noise and vibration racket along with the lack of gear changing the EV does disconnect me a bit. I thought I'd miss the 'road connection' but I guess I'm just turning into an old fart and love my "fast" Buick (that's an old person car joke for you EU folks). I can tell when I'm romping the Tesla cause I sorta grunt / tense up from the Gs.

Funny how quickly we adapt. After about a month of ownership the Tesla started to feel 'slow'. It was just a matter of perspective though cause I was still putting bus lengths on people behind me at stop lights without evening noticing it.

Ye will be sorta missed. I bagged on you kinda hard, you were a blast to scoot around in and zip thru traffic

Hello thar beautiful <3

 

[Zcd1]

...Funny how quickly we adapt. After about a month of ownership the Tesla started to feel 'slow'. It was just a matter of perspective though cause I was still putting bus lengths on people behind me at stop lights without evening noticing it.

Indeed - took some friends for a spin the other day (after just a week or so of ownership) and after I punched it and they all reacted, I thought - "huh - is that all there is??"

Hello thar beautiful <3...

Seems we both have a thing for fast white cars - my S6 was "Glacier White", a very cool (see what they did there?) metallic white...

 

[Mike Hawk]

The next gen Audi S6 was on my short list, but we're talking $90k+ nicely optioned. What they can do with the TT V8s with a tune was nuts. I hope the new S6 lives up to it's predecessor.

 

[Knightshade]

So the specific examples I linked above that directly disprove your statements aren't enough to convince you?? Ohhhkay...

Since they do nothing of the sort, no, not really.

tesla themselves directly tells you what I told you is true.

The use a different measurement to report P 0-60 times than non-P times.

Unlike every car magazine and car company.

Which is why Teslas behavior is deceptive.


I even quoted them doing so- and linked to another much longer thread here where folks were discussing Tesla being dishonest in doing so going back over a year.

Hell you told us how the car mags do it the same way for every car in order to be consistent. Then when I proved to you, with Teslas own words, that tesla does the opposite of that you claim you don't get it.

Not sure how you're still not understanding the basic facts involved.

good luck.

I don't appear to be the one in need of it

 

[BryanJ.Greene]

The midrage model 3 is faster than what Tesla claims..... damn you Tesla with your dishonesty

That's enough to talk....

 

[Drizzle]

Yeah, I fail to see deception on the part of Tesla on this.

ALL of Tesla's vehicles cars are actually quicker than they claim, so enjoy it!

It's pretty simple. If you wanted to trick people into thinking they were getting a better deal by buying the next model up, you'd want to let them think that it's much faster than the lesser model. Tesla intentionally or unintentionally deceived people by using the 1ft rollout on the better model/P3D (which gives the faster speed) and the non 1ft rollout (which gives the slower speed) for the lesser models.

Where do you need help understanding the definition of "deceive", or what tesla did to do that? I think the question is if they concsiously made that decision or not, and if it was to make the P3D seem better against other manufacturers or its own vehicles. Of course, this being a conscious effort, they could have updated all of their cars at that time as well. It did indeed state 3.5 on the site one day, then 3.3 the next.

Love my P3D btw.

 

[Zcd1]

...Tesla intentionally or unintentionally deceived people by using the 1ft rollout on the better model/P3D (which gives the faster speed) and the non 1ft rollout (which gives the slower speed) for the lesser models...

Love my P3D btw.

In the instances I linked, ALL of the cars, whether P or not and including the Model 3P, exceed their Tesla-claimed 0-60 performance by 0.1-0.2 seconds, according to tests done by magazines using the rollout method of measurement. There's no special treatment of or statement by Tesla of the non-P vs. P models, and their performance is consistently faster than Tesla's claim.

So where's the issue?

Glad you like your car!

 

[Knightshade]

There's no special treatment of or statement by Tesla of the non-P vs. P models

Well now you're just outright lying.

I linked you to both a discussion here for last year and tesla themselves where tesla tells you they only use roll out for P models and don't use it for other models.

That is literally the reason the P3 magically got .2 seconds quicker on the website- the car itself didn't change at all- they simply applied that dishonest different-measurement technique to the 3 that they'd already been doing with the S and X for a while.

The P3 is listed using 1 foot rollout. The non-P versions of the 3 are not.

Same with S and X.

Again, from Tesla themselves-

Performance base option acceleration ratings follow Motor Trend's test procedure of subtracting the first foot rollout time to represent drag strip performance"

The NON performance 0-60 numbers have no such disclaimer.

This is intentional dishonesty on the part of Tesla to try and make the P models look quicker than they really are compared to the cheaper trims of the same car.

It's simply baffling you're still confused about this.

Here's the link directly to the screen shot from when this was blowing up a while ago from Teslas website on the P85D showing only the performance 0-60, specifically uses roll out. Tesla has done the same across all their models now- dishonestly using 2 different measurements for P and non-P.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/p85d-specs-png.237053/