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Model 3 Range decreased again...
- Thread starter bigroccrek
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YusufT
Member
Sorry but did you think you will have the same range from when the car was brand new forever? It’s a battery, it degrades overtime with use. It’s basic chemistry, nothing Tesla can do about it. They’re not downgrading your battery through software updates.
ElectricLee
Member
Current Charge Levels and Estimated Miles:
100% = 284
90% = 256
80% = 227
70% = 199
60% = 171
50% = 142
Built Oct 2018 EPA 310
M3 AWD LR
42,000 Miles as of April 2020
100% = 284
90% = 256
80% = 227
70% = 199
60% = 171
50% = 142
Built Oct 2018 EPA 310
M3 AWD LR
42,000 Miles as of April 2020
sduck
Mr. Duck
Scroll on by then.
See the graph I posted - the drop when I installed 2020.12 is significant.
M109Rider
Active Member
I think he meant it’s only software changes, that they aren’t removing actual batteries with updates.
That means either your BMS is moving the reported range around (software only), or Tesla programmers are moving the reported range around for various reasons.
They can’t remove batteries through an update.
If it’s just software, try to use % instead of range. It’s far less stressful, and you’ll still get where your going like always.
If you have a bad pack, you’ll likely know it. Just like others here had very clear signs. It wasn’t just a percent drop.
Otherwise, every car battery will degrade differently. As long as it’s under 70% degradation Tesla isn’t replacing them.
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sduck
Mr. Duck
Now that you've looked at my graph, go back and read my post also. I'm not really that concerned, and do indeed use percent instead of miles. I even used that last phrase you usedIf it’s just software, try to use % instead of range. It’s far less stressful, and you’ll still get where your going like always.
. I was just adding actual facts to the discussion, for "facts!" sake. Perhaps we can get a mod to move this to the batteries and charging forum so to not bother the non-affected folks who still need to throw in their opinion?
mtndrew1
Active Member
While I’m not terribly alarmed or anything, my displayed battery capacity did in fact drop in lockstep with last summer’s software update. I went from 306 miles to 290 or so basically overnight.
While the battery will certainly degrade over time it’s weird to lose 5% in a very brief period of time.
My car was built in April of 2018 and I rarely supercharge. My car’s slider is showing 291 miles at 100% charge and it was a little over 310 when new, implying a degradation of ~6.1% over ~38,000 miles.
While this degradation is much slower than my Leaf (~20% at this age) it correlates with the same software update referenced earlier in this thread.
You also showing it go back up over 300 after the drop to 290. Degradation will never go back up. It is the BMS calibration as you can clearly see by it going back up. Yes, the battery will degrade, but not by 5% over night.
C141medic
Active Member
Interesting. I have stats as well (monitored my battery from day one). Your graph is exactly like mine until you hit 32K. I only have around 5500 miles.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Obviously.
But they changed something in software that dropped the range displayed overnight. The notion that they’re not doing this with software updates, as implied by the poster I quoted above, is incorrect.
It’s unlikely that the battery degraded overnight but the display certainly did.
I very rarely drive 300 miles in one shot so of course it would be hard for me to verify one way or the other and since I don’t really care I won’t be pursuing it, but the situation absolutely coincided with a software update last September or so.
YusufT
Member
I think the software updates are playing with the bms one way or another, which is why you see a dramatic drop after a update. Could just be updated battery range estimates also.
Gotcha and totally agree with that. Just trying to be clear for some who may not be as informed as you as everyone keeps calling that degradation. A software change is also not degradation and could also add range at some point. That does not mean that expand the battery capacity either.
I have seen the rated range referred to as the "guess-o-meter" many times, and it is a very bad way to judge any battery degradation as there are way to many other factors that go into that number and the rounding that happens.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Guess-o-Meter doesn’t really apply to Teslas.
This is my fifth modern-era EV and most of them use driving history, HVAC use, ambient temperature, and so forth to predict the amount of range available for a given amount of charge. So on a full 27 kWh on my Soul EV I could have 110 miles predicted range on Tuesday and 75 miles on Friday. Same with the GM cars and the Leaf. These are GoMs
The reason people become alarmed by the display number on Teslas is because that’s not how the display works on these cars. On a Tesla the displayed range is merely the total Wh available in the pack divided by the Wh/mi for the EPA rating. If you have 10,000 Wh of charge remaining in the battery and the EPA rating for your model is 250 Wh/mi the car will show 40 miles of remaining range. Even if you drive 30 miles downhill and consume zero power it will not raise the range estimate like a Leaf or Bolt will (regen aside).
SO... if your range display is reduced on a Tesla it directly implies that there are fewer Wh available in the pack. That display does not take into account driving style or ambient conditions. The only way to see a GoM in a Tesla is to dive into the energy graph screen.
What's your full chart look like? Stats isn't the best at telling battery deg since it's temperature-dependent. There are two SOC api and Stats uses the temp-dependent one. Some is deg, some is BMS drift, some may be software update issue, some is temp-dependency, etc. Impossible to say based upon that chart.
mtndrew1
Active Member
There was a problem with Stats that wiped out everything before the chart I attached. Very frustrating.
In any event it was all in that 305-310 band from new to 32,000 miles, then it dropped suddenly and significantly last September with one of the updates.
Again, it doesn’t bother me and I’ll be happy with anything less than 20% degradation within the warranty period but this certainly coincided with a software update.
sduck
Mr. Duck
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