Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm not expecting zero loss, but over 3% in two months would be extreme for an LFP battery.

Yes it does, especially in the context of your plot.

However, this could be a BMS estimate issue - but that could cut both ways. It may be that at first was biased towards assuming a brand new full capacity pack. But in reality, perhaps this was a lower capacity pack and it simply took a long trip with some deep discharges to get the right answer.

That would mean no significant capacity loss. Just means 2-3% lower capacity than most, but no loss.

Or, cutting the other way, this could just be a temporary error in the BMS due to the Supercharging sessions or due to other sources of BMS drift.

Or, it could be real capacity loss, of course. (Usually is for NCAs, but for LFPs could he very different.)

But in the end, that's the whole point of this thread--to discuss the real-world degradation experiences of LFP owners. There might be outliers that do significantly worse and significantly better than average.

True! Will be interesting to see how it goes. Is the battery warranty the same as the old SR+?

 

[pchanco]

Currently own a 2020 M3 that I charge to 80% for daily driving and regenerative braking. I have a new M3 with the LFP battery on order and Tesla is saying charge to 100% daily. My question is that since I love the regenerative breaking, will not charging to 100% daily affect the life of the LFP battery?

 

[USBSeawolf2000]

Currently own a 2020 M3 that I charge to 80% for daily driving and regenerative braking. I have a new M3 with the LFP battery on order and Tesla is saying charge to 100% daily. My question is that since I love the regenerative breaking, will not charging to 100% daily affect the life of the LFP battery?

My LFP gets 30 kW of regen brake at 99.4% SOC. You can charge to 100% and after driving a few miles, the regen will be fine.

 

[pipp]

So now after manually being kicked back up to 12 amps the SR+ is supposedly going to charge at 6 mph for 4 and a quarter hours. That would be perhaps 25 miles added to the 226 miles for a total range of 251. But the charge limit is bouncing around between 247 miles and 251 miles and also between 99% and 100%…

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So now after manually being kicked back up to 12 amps the SR+ is supposedly going to charge at 6 mph for 4 and a quarter hours. That would be perhaps 25 miles added to the 226 miles for a total range of 251. But the charge limit is bouncing around between 247 miles and 251 miles and also between 99% and 100%…

I would move the slider to 100% in the car, let it finish, move it again if necessary, and see what you end up with.

The estimates from the app are meaningless for this, since they are extrapolations subject to substantial (as much as 3-4 miles) error at 90% charge. Error can be 100-250 miles at 1%.

 

[pipp]

I would move the slider to 100% in the car, let it finish, move it again if necessary, and see what you end up with.

The estimates from the app are meaningless for this, since they are extrapolations subject to substantial (as much as 3-4 miles) error at 90% charge. Error can be 100-200 miles at 1%.

OK will do.

 

[pipp]

OK when it completed the charge it had settled in at 100% on the app. Checking the car showed 100% as well. Got up to 250 this time.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

OK when it completed the charge it had settled in at 100% on the app. Checking the car showed 100% as well. Got up to 250 this time.

Yeah it might take a while for the BMS to settle on an accurate number for your NFP as it converges on a correct CAC. Or it's possible your pack is just a bit weaker than most (by 1% or so - so not a big deal). So with the degradation threshold of 54.7kWh or so for the LFP (Is your US made SR+ LFP charging to 253 or 262?), that puts you at 54kWh, for now. (250/253*54.7kWh)

As you can see some users have been at 55.1kWh or so. So you're a couple % off, but you may just have a bit weaker battery. NBD. Or it's an estimate difference that will settle out with time with repeated 100% charges and discharges. It's not clear how tight the manufacturing control is on initial capacity. It may be quite tight - much tighter than 2% - but I just don't know.

In the end we're all just guessing at the reasons here, but we can say that your BMS currently thinks your vehicle has right around 54kWh of energy when fully charged - there's no dispute about that as it is easily calculated. (You can do it yourself from the energy screen in fact since you are below the degradation threshold.)

 

[jjrandorin]

So now after manually being kicked back up to 12 amps the SR+ is supposedly going to charge at 6 mph for 4 and a quarter hours. That would be perhaps 25 miles added to the 226 miles for a total range of 251. But the charge limit is bouncing around between 247 miles and 251 miles and also between 99% and 100%…

There have been other reports here of some strangeness when people are changing charging rates *in the app*. Dont change it in the app, if you are changing it there. Change it in the car, and dont touch the charging rate in the app, and see if it "stays put".

Home charging being throttled with latest software update

Updated my car (to 2021.36.5.5) and the mobile app (to 4.2.2 on iOS) the other day and noticed the next time I plugged into my wall connector, it was only charging @ 14 amps (4kW). I manually turned it up to 48amps and it charged the rest of the way with no issue. Again today I plugged the car...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[pipp]

There have been other reports here of some strangeness when people are changing charging rates *in the app*. Dont change it in the app, if you are changing it there. Change it in the car, and dont touch the charging rate in the app, and see if it "stays put".

Home charging being throttled with latest software update

Updated my car (to 2021.36.5.5) and the mobile app (to 4.2.2 on iOS) the other day and noticed the next time I plugged into my wall connector, it was only charging @ 14 amps (4kW). I manually turned it up to 48amps and it charged the rest of the way with no issue. Again today I plugged the car...

teslamotorsclub.com

Oh, OK, that sounds good, actually, since one guy reported that the subsequent charging rates were staying the same if he made the setting within the car. Maybe just a bug. And here I thought Tesla was trying to tell me that charging over 99% was bad for the battery…

 

[pipp]

Yeah it might take a while for the BMS to settle on an accurate number for your NFP as it converges on a correct CAC. Or it's possible your pack is just a bit weaker than most (by 1% or so - so not a big deal). So with the degradation threshold of 54.7kWh or so for the LFP (Is your US made SR+ LFP charging to 253 or 262?), that puts you at 54kWh, for now. (250/253*54.7kWh)

As you can see some users have been at 55.1kWh or so. So you're a couple % off, but you may just have a bit weaker battery. NBD. Or it's an estimate difference that will settle out with time with repeated 100% charges and discharges. It's not clear how tight the manufacturing control is on initial capacity. It may be quite tight - much tighter than 2% - but I just don't know.

In the end we're all just guessing at the reasons here, but we can say that your BMS currently thinks your vehicle has right around 54kWh of energy when fully charged - there's no dispute about that as it is easily calculated. (You can do it yourself from the energy screen in fact since you are below the degradation threshold.)

I guess I don’t give the system much data to work with since I rarely discharge my battery below 80%. Thanks for your analysis!

 

[Baluchi]

However, this could be a BMS estimate issue

Is the battery warranty the same as the old SR+?

I've been thinking BMS calibration is the most likely cause of pipp's 'problem.' Hopefully that turns out to be the case.

As for the warranty, I don't think there was a change for the LFP cars. If there was it was hidden in the fine print somewhere.

 

[pipp]

After 8 weeks of ownership, got my first software update. This took me to 2021.36.5.5 . Happy to get an update, but the charging display is indicating a 250 mile range limit (no change).

As a recap, it looks like I had already dropped to 250 range when I got my first firmware update a week and a half ago, and then when the 11 amps and 99% charge limits kicked in, the range dropped all the way down to 245. Now I’m back up to 250, and the 3-5 miles I’m missing (for a few weeks I was getting up to 255 range), could be due to some combination of the BMS working through the process of figuring out my weird charging habits and/or a small flaw in my battery set. At any rate I would agree that this issue is more of a “problem“ than a problem. I’m not seeing any reason to believe the range numbers are in big danger of going into freefall. Having a lot of fun with this car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

(for a few weeks I was getting up to 255 range)

Was that as displayed in the vehicle at 100%, or was it a projected number? I haven't seen any pictures showing that more than 254 can be displayed in the vehicle (which has a "technical" display max of 253, but as I understand it, you can get slightly over 100% SoC if Nominal Remaining exceeds Nominal Full Pack), but I think it could happen. See the prior linked thread for details on what is possible. I have heard a 255 claim before, but no pictures (I'd expect that to be a very transient state if it did happen, since NFP would likely subsequently adjust upwards, lowering the SOC% when charging results in Nominal Remaining above the NFP, and then 253/254 would become the new max, with concurrent rated-mile energy expansion above the degradation threshold).

I'd expect you'd see 255 if your NFP was about 54.7kWh and you managed to get Nominal remaining to 55.1kWh, or any such ratio that gets you up to 101% SOC (which will not display in the car - it'll still say 100%).

This sort of behavior around 100% on LFP vehicles becomes something that people may notice more, since they'll be charging to 100% a lot more now, since that's allowed and encouraged from time to time by Tesla to ensure energy estimates are correct (I think that is why?).

 

[pipp]

It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure it ended charging at 255 multiple times, and 254 multiple times. I can’t remember at all when that stopped. Probably because it went back and forth between the lower and higher numbers a few times, so that seeing a 252 or a 255 could happen on any given day. Unfortunately I have no hard evidence so this is just hearsay.

 

[pipp]

There have been other reports here of some strangeness when people are changing charging rates *in the app*. Dont change it in the app, if you are changing it there. Change it in the car, and dont touch the charging rate in the app, and see if it "stays put".

Home charging being throttled with latest software update

Updated my car (to 2021.36.5.5) and the mobile app (to 4.2.2 on iOS) the other day and noticed the next time I plugged into my wall connector, it was only charging @ 14 amps (4kW). I manually turned it up to 48amps and it charged the rest of the way with no issue. Again today I plugged the car...

teslamotorsclub.com

Just to verify, this worked for me as well, after changing the amps to 12 in the car yesterday, didn’t touch the app. When I plugged in this morning it started up at the desired default of 12 amps…Thanks!

 

[USBSeawolf2000]

I charged it to 100% overnight and this morning I got 253 miles. Car has 1,700 miles on ODO.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I charged it to 100% overnight and this morning I got 253 miles. Car has 1,700 miles on ODO.

Is your NFP & Nominal Remaining still strong at over 55kWh?

 

[USBSeawolf2000]

Is your NFP & Nominal Remaining still strong at over 55kWh?

Nominal Full Pack (NFP) is 55.0 kWh and Nominal Remaining is 54.3 kWh at 98.7% SOC.

I drove 3 miles this morning, 76 meters elevation drop and back up. Regen was strong enough to absorb all energy except at 5mph to a red light at the bottom of the hill.

I had both front seat heaters and cabin temp set at 70 deg F for the heat pump to take some load.

 

[FARKLE!]

Is your NFP & Nominal Remaining still strong at over 55kWh?

Where can I find this information?