Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

[DeathAndTaxes]

Patiently (ha) waiting my SR+/RWD M3 and I had a question for those that have received the LFP model. From what I understand it's okay and even recommended to charge the LFP models to 100% daily. Also from what I understand regen braking turns off/is reduced near a full charge.

One of the many perks or "hard to go back" features of driving a Tesla that I hear is the "one pedal driving". The one pedal driving is due to the regenerative breaking, and is only active when regen breaking is active, right?

So my question is, for those that have LFP Models that charge to 100% daily, is the experience of the first 5-20miles different every day because regen braking is disabled? Do you find that annoying? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

If that is the case, it would almost be nice if while maybe the car couldn't gain energy from regen braking, it would still drive the same without the energy generation.

 

[lowercase]

I have an LFP. When it's a "full tank" the regen braking acts like "roll" mode instead of "hold," ie: it's a gentle braking force instead of a firm. So you need to hit the actual brakes more often. I don't like it when that happens, so I charge to 80%. Nothing wrong with that, LFP just tolerates 100% better than NCA, it doesn't require 100%.

 

[amit_gunner]

Patiently (ha) waiting my SR+/RWD M3 and I had a question for those that have received the LFP model. From what I understand it's okay and even recommended to charge the LFP models to 100% daily. Also from what I understand regen braking turns off/is reduced near a full charge.

One of the many perks or "hard to go back" features of driving a Tesla that I hear is the "one pedal driving". The one pedal driving is due to the regenerative breaking, and is only active when regen breaking is active, right?

So my question is, for those that have LFP Models that charge to 100% daily, is the experience of the first 5-20miles different every day because regen braking is disabled? Do you find that annoying? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

If that is the case, it would almost be nice if while maybe the car couldn't gain energy from regen braking, it would still drive the same without the energy generation.

For me i never noticed anything less on my regen braking even at 100% charge. If i preconditioned my car by setting up ready to depart car always has great regen braking. Not an issue for me at all.

 

[3sr+buyer]

I have an LFP. When it's a "full tank" the regen braking acts like "roll" mode instead of "hold," ie: it's a gentle braking force instead of a firm. So you need to hit the actual brakes more often. I don't like it when that happens, so I charge to 80%. Nothing wrong with that, LFP just tolerates 100% better than NCA, it doesn't require 100%.

The recommendation to charge to 100% at least weekly comes from the possibility that the BMS could lose track of the actual state of charge, because much of the voltage curve (that is not close to 100% or 0%) is close to flat. Repeatedly charging to some level other than 100% could allow the BMS to get out of sync with the actual state of charge, so that (for example) it may be (erroneously) reporting 10% and then suddenly drop to 1%.

LFP batteries do degrade, but at a much slower rate than NCA batteries. But if you want to minimize degradation when charging to 100%, use scheduled charging to finish just before you drive off, to minimize parking time at high states of charge. For long term parking, it is probably best to leave it plugged in with the charge target at 50% (and, upon return, charge it back up to 100% before driving in case the BMS has gotten inaccurate).

 

[eevee-fan]

So if BMS is off, does your screen show SOC of 90% and suddenly jump up to 100% when voltage increases?

 

[lowercase]

The recommendation to charge to 100% at least weekly comes from the possibility that the BMS could lose track of the actual state of charge, because much of the voltage curve (that is not close to 100% or 0%) is close to flat. Repeatedly charging to some level other than 100% could allow the BMS to get out of sync with the actual state of charge, so that (for example) it may be (erroneously) reporting 10% and then suddenly drop to 1%.

LFP batteries do degrade, but at a much slower rate than NCA batteries. But if you want to minimize degradation when charging to 100%, use scheduled charging to finish just before you drive off, to minimize parking time at high states of charge. For long term parking, it is probably best to leave it plugged in with the charge target at 50% (and, upon return, charge it back up to 100% before driving in case the BMS has gotten inaccurate).

I never drive to even below 50% most days. If the BMS is so off that it thinks there's 50% charge when there's zero, we have a problem.

 

[username123]

I’ve had my LFP model 3 for a bit less than 7 weeks and I’ve done 2000km. When I fully charged the car at delivery it showed 439km but now it shows 435km. Is it normal to get a 1% loss after so little usage?

 

[israndy]

Yeah, the batteries settle into themselves, but you will likely keep seeing range loss. On the NCM that most of the cars come with losing 10% in the first year or two is not unusual, the good news on those is it settles into that range then for a pretty long time.

Good luck with the LFPs, hopefully it will be pretty similar. And you benefit from not having to limit your charge to ~75% or so, to prevent increased degradation.

 

[Baluchi]

I hadn't lost any calculated range by 2000 km, but it could just be a BMS calibration inconsistency so I wouldn't start sweating it at this point.

 

[username123]

I hadn't lost any calculated range by 2000 km, but it could just be a BMS calibration inconsistency so I wouldn't start sweating it at this point.

I charge it to 100% daily so shouldn't it be accurate?

 

[Baluchi]

I charge it to 100% daily so shouldn't it be accurate?

Maybe, but that could also be why your range dropped a little quicker than mine did.

 

[username123]

Maybe, but that could also be why your range dropped a little quicker than mine did.

They say in the manual to keep it plugged in as much as possible and to keep the charge limit to 100%.

Also the delivery guy told me that since it’s LFP I can just keep it plugged in when I don’t use it

 

[nvesprini]

hi guys. is there any recommended lower limit for the LFP battery to try to stay above? the NCA cells had a ballpark window of 20% - 90% people were recommending you try to keep the battery in for most of the time. I know the LFP moves the upper limit to 100% daily but is the 20% lower limit still there? is it at 20%? just looking for best practices to try to keep the battery in good shape over the long term. thanks!

 

[Jeremy3292]

With the LFP battery, the saying "don't worry about" actually truly applies.

20%-100% for normal life is just fine. You can go below 20% on road trips too where necessary.

 

[sdisdi]

Hello - I’m sure this has been covered before but I can’t find exactly what I’m looking for. I collected my 2022 RWD (in UK) two weeks ago and very happy so far. Have charged to 100% twice now and the display today says 274mi/100%. My question is whether this is the most it would ever show - is the potential 315mi for this spec never shown in the display - that’s a figure you may achieve by driving really efficiently but wouldn’t be shown in the display? Thanks.

 

[pipp]

Hello - I’m sure this has been covered before but I can’t find exactly what I’m looking for. I collected my 2022 RWD (in UK) two weeks ago and very happy so far. Have charged to 100% twice now and the display today says 274mi/100%. My question is whether this is the most it would ever show - is the potential 315mi for this spec never shown in the display - that’s a figure you may achieve by driving really efficiently but wouldn’t be shown in the display? Thanks.

It makes sense not to show the 315, as the only way you could get that would be to travel at about 45 mph on flat terrain with few stops and little wind resistance…the 274 reflects driving conditions that aren’t so abnormal. Bottom line, there might be a freak day when you see it climb to 275, more likely after a few months to see it drop a bit, but over 275 would be odds slim and none. One thing I take from that is that when I charge up to 100%, and my projected range drops a mile or so, and my first impulse is to despair at the entropy of life and my batteries, I can then console myself with the fact that I can get about 10-20 miles of range back by just driving 5mph more slowly…But over 275? I suspect that the software that commands the Battery Management System is actually hard-coded to never project a full range considerably higher than the car was rated at.

 

[sdisdi]

It makes sense not to show the 315, as the only way you could get that would be to travel at about 45 mph on flat terrain with few stops and little wind resistance…the 274 reflects driving conditions that aren’t so abnormal. Bottom line, there might be a freak day when you see it climb to 275, more likely after a few months to see it drop a bit, but over 275 would be odds slim and none. One thing I take from that is that when I charge up to 100%, and my projected range drops a mile or so, and my first impulse is to despair at the entropy of life and my batteries, I can then console myself with the fact that I can get about 10-20 miles of range back by just driving 5mph more slowly…But over 275? I suspect that the software that commands the Battery Management System is actually hard-coded to never project a full range considerably higher than the car was rated at.

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[Baluchi]

15,000 mile (24,000 km) update for my Sep 2021 SR+ LFP. The car is now about 7 months old and was originally rated at 253 miles on a full charge. The Tessie app shows a battery capacity of 53.4 kWh (down 2.2% from my original 23 Oct 2021 post of 54.6 kWh), and a max range of 247 miles (down 2.4% from my original post of 253 miles). I've had Tessie since my first day or two or ownership, so this data shows the entire life of the car.

Looking back, it seems like my steepest drop in range came around 5,000 miles, or 2-3 months into the car's life. At that point I saw a fairly aggressive drop from 253 to 249 miles of max range. Since then, the drop has leveled off to some degree (though it's still a slight downward trend).

According to the car's screen, I'm now averaging 219 Wh/mi over the life of the car (up from 215 during the 10,000 mile update before I'd gone through the coldest months of the winter). Assuming I could tap into the listed 53.4 kWh battery at my lifetime average 219 Wh/mi efficiency, that gives me a range of 243.8 miles. My Wh/mi figures are already going down now that it's getting warmer, so my real-world range should be higher in my next update.

My charging is almost entirely Level 2 from a Grizzl-E on a 40 amp circuit in my garage, delivering 32 amps to the car. I charge most nights, but as I've posted here before I try to max out at 70-80% a most of the time, with a 100% charge once a week or as needed. I did have to Supercharge exclusively for a 3 week period in March when my on-board charger ECU failed. That probably wasn't great for the battery, but I had no choice and I was just happy to be able to fuel the car at that point.

Tessie says I've charged 190 times in the 7 months I've owned the car. The LFP battery is supposedly good for 5,000 cycles before it degrades to 80%, so I've used 3.8% of those cycles since I bought the car on 23 Sep 2021. At this rate, the car should last a total of 15 years before the battery falls to 80% capacity (202 mile range)...this is down slightly from 16 years I calculated on my last update.

Tessie says I've spent $322.78 on electricity for the life of the car, while the same driving in my old Ford Focus would've cost $1,710.76 in gasoline. So my fuel costs have been 18% compared to keeping my old car (down from 26% last time due to the spike in oil prices lately). Assuming the average US emissions of 0.85 pounds CO2 per kWh, the 3,284 kWh used while driving equates to 2,791 pounds of CO2 spent driving my Tesla. If I'd kept my Ford Focus (37mpg), I would've used 406 gallons of gas to travel 15,020 miles. At about 19 pounds of CO2 per gallon, that would've been 7,714 pounds of CO2. So I'm spewing 36% of the carbon emissions than I would've released in my efficient little Focus. As the grid moves toward more renewables, that should only get better over the life of the car.

I'll try to post another update at 20,000 miles. Should have some good warm-weather miles on the car by then, so it'll be interesting to see the changes coming out of winter.

 

[pipp]

15,000 mile (24,000 km) update for my Sep 2021 SR+ LFP. The car is now about 7 months old and was originally rated at 253 miles on a full charge. The Tessie app shows a battery capacity of 53.4 kWh (down 2.2% from my original 23 Oct 2021 post of 54.6 kWh), and a max range of 247 miles (down 2.4% from my original post of 253 miles). I've had Tessie since my first day or two or ownership, so this data shows the entire life of the car.

Looking back, it seems like my steepest drop in range came around 5,000 miles, or 2-3 months into the car's life. At that point I saw a fairly aggressive drop from 253 to 249 miles of max range. Since then, the drop has leveled off to some degree (though it's still a slight downward trend).

View attachment 788224

According to the car's screen, I'm now averaging 219 Wh/mi over the life of the car (up from 215 during the 10,000 mile update before I'd gone through the coldest months of the winter). Assuming I could tap into the listed 53.4 kWh battery at my lifetime average 219 Wh/mi efficiency, that gives me a range of 243.8 miles. My Wh/mi figures are already going down now that it's getting warmer, so my real-world range should be higher in my next update.

View attachment 788230

My charging is almost entirely Level 2 from a Grizzl-E on a 40 amp circuit in my garage, delivering 32 amps to the car. I charge most nights, but as I've posted here before I try to max out at 70-80% a most of the time, with a 100% charge once a week or as needed. I did have to Supercharge exclusively for a 3 week period in March when my on-board charger ECU failed. That probably wasn't great for the battery, but I had no choice and I was just happy to be able to fuel the car at that point.

Tessie says I've charged 190 times in the 7 months I've owned the car. The LFP battery is supposedly good for 5,000 cycles before it degrades to 80%, so I've used 3.8% of those cycles since I bought the car on 23 Sep 2021. At this rate, the car should last a total of 15 years before the battery falls to 80% capacity (202 mile range)...this is down slightly from 16 years I calculated on my last update.

Tessie says I've spent $322.78 on electricity for the life of the car, while the same driving in my old Ford Focus would've cost $1,710.76 in gasoline. So my fuel costs have been 18% compared to keeping my old car (down from 26% last time due to the spike in oil prices lately). Assuming the average US emissions of 0.85 pounds CO2 per kWh, the 3,284 kWh used while driving equates to 2,791 pounds of CO2 spent driving my Tesla. If I'd kept my Ford Focus (37mpg), I would've used 406 gallons of gas to travel 15,020 miles. At about 19 pounds of CO2 per gallon, that would've been 7,714 pounds of CO2. So I'm spewing 36% of the carbon emissions than I would've released in my efficient little Focus. As the grid moves toward more renewables, that should only get better over the life of the car.

I'll try to post another update at 20,000 miles. Should have some good warm-weather miles on the car by then, so it'll be interesting to see the changes coming out of winter.

Looks like we are ending up in the same approximate place (246-247 miles range projected for me nowadays) after taking different routes. If I don't get out of the house more I’ll be lucky to get 8000 miles in by next September. I spent March supercharging simply to try to use my 1000 supercharging miles (left 350 miles on the table) before they expired. The miles expired on 3/16 and I home-charged for the first time in more than a month yesterday. Lack of driving leaves me charging about 2-3 times per month, at which point I put in 100 %.

 

[fishacura]

6 weeks in here on my M3LR. I am getting between 255-275 range FWIW. I cannot understand for the life of me how they can advertise 350 or whatever they advertise. It's one of the very few things I'd complain about. For me honestly anything over 150 is probably fine. It's more the principal here...it's just so far beyond reality to say anything over 300 it's a bit upsetting.