They have to allow an ad-hoc payment, which might argue against a one time fee. Bu the law certainly doesn't prohibit free chargers. Tesla will be adding CCS chargers to European super chargers and charging a fee for the CCS use, but the supercharger will still be free.
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They have to allow an ad-hoc payment, which might argue against a one time fee. Bu the law certainly doesn't prohibit free chargers. Tesla will be adding CCS chargers to European super chargers and charging a fee for the CCS use, but the supercharger will still be free.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
More likely, I think, that Tesla Motors will charge no fees to use any connectors at their charging sites at all, ever. There will be no Pay-as-You-Go scheme, system, or requirement. Period.
So you think they are going to start providing free energy to all EV users regardless of what kind of car they have? I find that a little hard to believe and don't see why they would.
Yes, he is totally cool with them using the Supercharger network, but here is more of the actual quote: "And they'd also need to agree with the business model, which is we don't charge people on a per-charge basis. They'd need to contribute to the capital costs proportional to their fleet's usage of the network. So we think that's pretty fair."
Exactly, that statement was about other carmakers having support for the supercharger network, not any car using the EU mandated CCS chargers they are going to have to install at supercharger stations for free.
Correct. But the directive clearly forbid that the customer has to have any pre-agreement of any kind to be able to charge at the charging stall. So unless they offer free charging to everyone they will have to have a way to pay pr. charge.
Quite possible. But as I said - they will have to have a way to pay pr. charge on the (new/modified) supercharger stalls, and that may change their plans...
Electricity cost alone is about $2000 on average for the lifetime of each Tesla. According to this survey with 207 owners, supercharger use on average is 21.8 times per year. If we assume a typical session is from 20% to 90%, that's 0.7*77= 53.9 kWh. At 11 cents per kWh it would cost 5.9 USD per charge, 129.25 USD per year and 1939 USD for 15 years. In THIS video at 13:25 JB Straubel said they will implement a payment system.
Elon has said many times that super charger access will be free for life for all Tesla vehicles (current and future models). The cost of super charger access (already built into the cost of vehicle) is significantly more than most people actually use so they are not losing money on the electricity. It probably takes an average of 500 vehicle sales to pay for a supercharger and all the electricity used by the customers. Secondly, Elon stated that yes eventually any EV owner regardless of brand can use the supercharger IF, the associated manufacture contributes to the capital cost proportional to use. The supercharging stations will actually be significant money makers at some point in time when supercharger station infrastructure nears saturation and vehicle sales soar. At that time, the built in cost of supercharger access will be very profitable especially if other manufactures help in defraying the capital cost.
$2000 in electricity over 15 years? I do not know if many people will actually keep their car for 15 years, or less likely, travel that often to warrant 21.8 long distance charges/year. But, if Tesla gets to the "million" mile powertrain....who knows. The over the air updates certainly give a person the feeling of a new car after each update too so.... just my 2 cents
$2000 in electricity over 15 years? I do not know if many people will actually keep their car for 15 years, or less likely, travel that often to warrant 21.8 long distance charges/year. But, if Tesla gets to the "million" mile powertrain....who knows. The over the air updates certainly give a person the feeling of a new car after each update too so.... just my 2 cents
The point is the built in fee for the car more than pays for the electricity used by the car, not that the buyer gets most of his/her money back. But one could argue that the car having the ability to use SC's increases it's resale value. So the seller gets part of that fee back and the used car buyer pays for their portion of it.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
It doesn't matter what you do not see. What matters is that Elon Musk has been exceedingly consistent on this point for over three years. I know there are some stockholders who would like to see Superchargers become a revenue stream. They are handily outvoted by the fact that Elon's strategy works, and will continue to do so. There is no need to limit Supercharger access. There is no need for Tesla Motors to become 'The NEXT Exxon!'. Every effort to monetize charging of electric vehicles has been a dismal failure, because people are smart enough to know when they are being ripped off. Paying as much as $1.00 per mile is significantly worse than the most inefficient of gas guzzlers.
Once again, it has never been Tesla Motors' intent that anyone pay them for electricity. Originally, the $2,000 fee was for the inclusion of DC charging hardware on the car. They realized it was easier to include the hardware by default. So, they instituted a program whereby Model S 60 owners could activate that hardware for a $2,000 fee prior to Delivery, or $2,500 fee after Delivery -- to effectively pay for the hardware they got 'for free', but had not used.
As for JB Straubel, I will watch the video again... But I recall he said Tesla Motors will re-examine the situation, perhaps after there were 1,000,000 Supercharger enabled cars on the road, and make a determination as to whether a change was needed. He did NOT make a firm stance that it would be absolutely necessary to implement a payment system of some sort. Perhaps you should watch it again, as well?
I remain fully confident that upon checking the combined data, Tesla Motors will determine their original determination was correct. The marketing value of 'Free (of additional fees) for LIFE (the life of the car)!' is much greater than the internal cost of providing electricity. The more cars they sell profitably, the more they can service at Superchargers.
Are we talking about the same thing? Because I'm not talking about superchargers or the supercharger network. I'm talking about CCS chargers. Now you may believe that they will apply the same rational, but that is totally not clear. This isn't about revenue stream, it's about defraying costs due to a government regulation.
You sure about that. We charged at Disney Springs in Orlando this past Christmas and I am sure the charger was per kw.
I think it depends on your location. Here in Oregon ChargePoint/Blink charges $0.04/min plus $0.20/kW for using their 50 kWh DC fast charger. You have to have a CHAdeMO adapter to use it. (But it does have a CCS plug as well.)
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
The Superchargers that Tesla Motors put on rest stops in NJ had J1772 charges installed as well, and there is no fee to use them. It was part of the deal Tesla made with the State to get the space for the Superchargers. I believe they would do the same with mandated CCS chargers in the European Union as well. Sorted.
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
I think many are under the assumption the supercharger network is for everyday use and you will get your lifetime charging for free. This is not the case. It was designed for long trips mainly along the interstate. The majority of users will get their charge at home. I am not saying you may not have a few where it happens the charging station is to be placed in a location close to your home and you may decide to use the supercharger. The other thing as you more Teslas are sold the longer the wait at the supercharger locations. There are already places where the wait is hours.
For me I will rarely use a supercharger as the closest supercharger is 65 miles away (one way) with over $5.00 in toll charges each way. On my model X that should arrive any day I had to pay $2000 for supercharger access. It was part of a package when I ordered the car. I doubt if I will ever use $2000 worth of electricity at a supercharger.
On the Model 3 I bet there will be an option for $2,000 superCharger. If you don't have capital money to continue to add additional supercharger infrastructure the lines will get unacceptably long as more and more cars are produced. If not they will have to go to a pay as you go option. There is continued maintenanceon the supercharger. There are days where one or more supercharger are out of service. The cost will have to include not only the cost of the electricity but also something to help continue to maintain and build more stations.
Elon has said the Model 3 will be a luxury sedan based on the Model S but smaller. To get it to being close to the target of price $45k everything will have to be an option. Therefore it may start at $45k but it probably will quickly approach $75-85k. If it is like the Model X where the timeline slipped three years you won't see one until 2018, 2019 maybe 2020. At which point there will be no rebate.
For me I will rarely use a supercharger as the closest supercharger is 65 miles away (one way) with over $5.00 in toll charges each way. On my model X that should arrive any day I had to pay $2000 for supercharger access. It was part of a package when I ordered the car. I doubt if I will ever use $2000 worth of electricity at a supercharger.
On the Model 3 I bet there will be an option for $2,000 superCharger. If you don't have capital money to continue to add additional supercharger infrastructure the lines will get unacceptably long as more and more cars are produced. If not they will have to go to a pay as you go option. There is continued maintenanceon the supercharger. There are days where one or more supercharger are out of service. The cost will have to include not only the cost of the electricity but also something to help continue to maintain and build more stations.
Elon has said the Model 3 will be a luxury sedan based on the Model S but smaller. To get it to being close to the target of price $45k everything will have to be an option. Therefore it may start at $45k but it probably will quickly approach $75-85k. If it is like the Model X where the timeline slipped three years you won't see one until 2018, 2019 maybe 2020. At which point there will be no rebate.
Its not just the electricity you are paying for. You are paying for the network, maintenance, electricity, ground lease (if any). I did a back of the napkin calculation, and found that they have spent about $225 million just on electricity to date at the superchargers.
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