Model 3 Tearing it Up at the Track

[usofrob]

Just watched the video. That looks like cheating! I'm very interested in seeing what changes you make. I'm surprised you got the white interior just to rip it all out.

 

[MoreAgain]

Current weight & balance:

Altogether awesome! Impressive weight loss - does it feel front-heavy at this weight, or still balanced? You didn't seem to have much oversteer - assuming Track Mode pulling the front helps.

 

[Orwell]

Amazing weight loss. I love this.

 

[L@urens]

Awesome project; subscribed!

 

[esrandl]

Awesome! More details please: brake pads, tires, any thing you have changed other than weight loss. Obviously car is very fast already, curious how brakes stand up for longer sessions.

 

[Visionary]

Great job!. Looking forward to seeing more!

 

[Zerosport]

Altogether awesome! Impressive weight loss - does it feel front-heavy at this weight, or still balanced? You didn't seem to have much oversteer - assuming Track Mode pulling the front helps.

Track mode takes some getting used to. Awesome for new drivers but comes at the cost of rear pads (applies brakes individually to pull the car around corners). Smooth inputs help. I will say that most street car driver aids just get in the way for experienced drivers. But this is one of the least intrusive - actually felt like Track Mode became more useful once I put on slicks. Really cool to see what they can do with software and specific applications like this in mind.

Awesome! More details please: brake pads, tires, any thing you have changed other than weight loss. Obviously car is very fast already, curious how brakes stand up for longer sessions.

I'm running Pirelli DH slicks in the video but I've also been testing Michelin Pilot Sports (S8M). The car has upgraded pads, front rotors, and a couple other parts to help with alignment. But I won't drop names on anything unless I feel comfortable endorsing it for serious track / racing use, and I can't say I have that level of confidence in what's been tested so far.

To your last point- stock brakes are simply not adequate for any driver, at any level, on the track. In an RWD/AWD Model 3 the brakes overheated by turn 4 and lost pedal pressure by turn 5. First lap.

P3D+ does better, but stock pads and fluids are again your limiting factors. Here's what happened to the rear rotors in a single 20 minute session on stock pads:

What you're looking at is a whole lot of pad smear because the stock pads got way past their thermal range. Not great.

But don't let me scare you off. Most production cars face these kinds of issues. If you're going to the track just plan on better pads and higher temp brake fluids like Motul 600 or Castrol SRF. And if you're not in a P3D+ I'd recommend bigger front rotors too. If you don't want to do these things, try and limit yourself to a couple flying laps per session and avoid these kinds of issues.

Of course, YMMV!

 

[beastmode13]

Love it. I shall live vicariously through you. Keep my mods to a minimal.

 

[n8vision]

Thanks for this. Super cool. I’m a proud 2 year model S owner and love the way it hugs the road on technical stretches. But no one asked the obvious, elephant in the room question: race range. What is it, and what’s the typical length of these races? Or, how many races in a day can you compete in and still get home. I’d say that’s a severe limiting factor.

I'm building a Model 3 race car. Full build. Stripped down, roll cage, wing, etc... no holds barred. And I'm taking it into real competition.

My passion is motorsport. I've been racing competitively for eight years and as soon as I drove a Tesla I knew the future would be electric. The general public doesn't realize it yet, but the war is already won. Just a matter of time before everything converts. And personally, I can't wait for that future.

Sure there's Formula E and Electric GT (if it ever gets off the ground). But what's really missing right now is the grassroots racing scene. For every professional race team there are thousands of people who want to take their street cars to the track and see what they can do.

Anyway, I've seen a bunch of videos and posts about taking these cars to HPDE events. But I've never really seen one driven in anger against solid competition. So here's a short video of it in action.

(Hint, watch to the end for a bonus lesson on why EVs are the future!)

 

[Vancan]

Are you still using stock suspension? Would be interested to know if/how the search for the right suspension set-up progresses!

 

[disapr]

Why are so many winged cars parked on the track? Car show? Parade laps?

You should see if PFC makes a pad that will fit your caliper. I used to run the 01 compound.. Really excellent track pad.

I assume you're welding the cage in? It'll be interesting to see how the joints near the glass roof are welded.

Best of luck, this will be an epic project!

 

[Zerosport]

Thanks for this. Super cool. I’m a proud 2 year model S owner and love the way it hugs the road on technical stretches. But no one asked the obvious, elephant in the room question: race range. What is it, and what’s the typical length of these races? Or, how many races in a day can you compete in and still get home. I’d say that’s a severe limiting factor.

On track the car pushes an average 5-6x normal wh/mi. I estimate 35-40 minutes of total track time, which is long enough for a sprint race. (But just barely).

Power graph:

Another big issue is that horsepower drops as the battery state of charge falls. So by the end of the race, the car may have lost as much as 100hp.

For that reason these will probably be best as time attack cars or in an all-electric series against other EVs... makes for an interesting dynamic whereby strategically conserving battery gives you more speed at the end, much like olympic athletes sprinting to the finish.

 

[cgwiita]

Thanks for this. Super cool. I’m a proud 2 year model S owner and love the way it hugs the road on technical stretches. But no one asked the obvious, elephant in the room question: race range. What is it, and what’s the typical length of these races? Or, how many races in a day can you compete in and still get home. I’d say that’s a severe limiting factor.

My experience at Streets of Willow Springs was one fast session (~90-50% battery), one slow session (battery was under 50%, dropped down to 20 by the end of the session). These were full 20 minutes sessions. If you're doing the time trial thing and just doing two three laps to set times, might be able to get two fast sessions? California is blessed to have Superchargers within 15min of every racetrack, so lunchtime charging is usually the best bet. I've never bothered with AC charging, but there are usually RV hookups for topping off.

Brakes are the big thing--lots of power, lots of brake-controlled traction management, and lots of weight. I boiled my stock brake fluid on Hawk DTC70 pads in my first track session, but it held up for the second (slower) one. I've swapped in some SRF and am looking to do another day sometime.

 

[Zerosport]

Are you still using stock suspension? Would be interested to know if/how the search for the right suspension set-up progresses!

For sure- will keep the forum posted. Really happy with how well it has done at this early of a stage in the build.

Why are so many winged cars parked on the track? Car show? Parade laps?

You should see if PFC makes a pad that will fit your caliper. I used to run the 01 compound.. Really excellent track pad.

I assume you're welding the cage in? It'll be interesting to see how the joints near the glass roof are welded.

Best of luck, this will be an epic project!

Thanks. It is a big challenge to be sure - largely because there isn't any info out there. Our end goal is the advancement of EVs in grassroots motorsport so we'll be documenting progress and sharing along the way.

 

[JM0N]

For sure- will keep the forum posted. Really happy with how well it has done at this early of a stage in the build.



Thanks. It is a big challenge to be sure - largely because there isn't any info out there. Our end goal is the advancement of EVs in grassroots motorsport so we'll be documenting progress and sharing along the way.

Are you on twitter ? I'd like to follow your progress !

Jay Pase (@J_M_0_N) | Twitter

 

[Perry]

Thanks for this. Super cool. I’m a proud 2 year model S owner and love the way it hugs the road on technical stretches. But no one asked the obvious, elephant in the room question: race range. What is it, and what’s the typical length of these races? Or, how many races in a day can you compete in and still get home. I’d say that’s a severe limiting factor.

From my own experience, race range is about 60 miles on my P3D. As you can see here. 20 miles left for a third of battery left:

 

[StealthP3D]

What you're looking at is a whole lot of pad smear because the stock pads got way past their thermal range. Not great.

But don't let me scare you off. Most production cars face these kinds of issues.

You said "most". If there is a production car that has adequate brakes for track use I will guarantee that they are not optimum for safety and consistency on the street.

BTW, nice passing manoeuvres! Most track day video shows a bunch of "gentlemen" letting the faster cars pass for fear they might crash but some of those guys were actively trying to prevent you from passing. Well done, you were not messing around!

 

[ejmz]

18" Apex EC-7.



It's really strange when there aren't any cars around. But I love it - feels so much more connected to the road because you can hear everything happening with the tires.



Pulling the windshield is just a preventative measure - so many rocks flying around it will get wrecked. Replacing with Lexan. I'll also be removing the top and rear glass for safety.

Wheel well liners came out to make it easier for working on suspension - Tesla did a really good job designing the whole undercarriage for aero. Some really nice touches- no doubt I lost a couple mph by pulling some of those pieces out. They'll go back in once I fit the right tires.

FYI: Unlike other cars, the Glass in the Model 3 is actually a major structural component. Be careful removing the top glass as it will likely make the car more unsafe and unstable (it's designed to create rigid body which helps handling). Cage will likely help solve these issues but wanted to let you know just in case you were't aware.

See crash video and description of this here:

 

[StealthP3D]

For that reason these will probably be best as time attack cars or in an all-electric series against other EVs... makes for an interesting dynamic whereby strategically conserving battery gives you more speed at the end, much like olympic athletes sprinting to the finish.

Yes, it's a whole new game so you have your "learning" plate full, there are no good existing templates for how to win. For example, optimizing the cooling of the A/C condenser might pay big dividends. You could install a larger/thicker one or get creative and use a water mister to take advantage of the heat of vaporization. The availability of a 240V outlet pre-race would be a huge benefit so you could cool it in track mode without using up your state of charge.

I'm guessing a valuable tactic will be coasting down the last bit of long straights under regen only and then using a very late brake point (vs. ICE) to reach corner speed. And aerodynamics will very important, of course. Will you be using plexiglass for the driver window? It looked like your seatbelt was flapping in the wind. If it's allowed under the rules, a very valuable thing would be aero wheel covers that turn into "air brakes" under strong deceleration, thus cooling the brakes while simultaneously giving you very dirty aerodynamics to assist with the braking. Of course, that would likely require too much development time to be practical unless you have a skilled development team working for you. And I can't imagine active aero is legal in any class you'll be racing in.

I can see how EV's will bring back the fun of amateur racing by allowing creative individuals who understand the constraints to get a leg up on the competition instead of just following well-developed formulas for turning popular sports cars into track machines.

 

[StealthP3D]

FYI: Unlike other cars, the Glass in the Model 3 is actually a major structural component. Be careful removing the top glass as it will likely make the car more unsafe and unstable (it's designed to create rigid body which helps handling). Cage will likely help solve these issues but wanted to let you know just in case you were't aware.

See crash video and description of this here:

Wow! That is the FINEST Model 3 info video I've ever seen. He will be a rising star. With videos that good and that informative, I'm surprised he only has a few subscribers!