Model 3 to have <60kW Supercharging?

[ohmman]

The tiers are there for fairness during the charge taper (as @TexasEV said), or during sharing. They only exist in states that require per-minute charging.

Model 3 has nothing to do with any of this, and it's wild and completely baseless speculation to think otherwise.

 

[Electroman]

Reeler: why don't you step away from the keyboard, and sit back and learn from other knowledgeable posters.

Every reply of yours, you come out not ignorant but obtuse.

 

[Jayc]

Okay just got to reading this thread and I agree with those who say the tiers are there for the taper i.e. to account for the reduction in charge power during the last top bit.

Think about it folks, without tiered per-minute billing, you could pay more to fill up 80-100% than for the initial 80% which would be completely unfair. Especially when this scheme runs for a while and we start to see those billed per minute paying significantly more than the rest. Rather than Tesla saying sorry folks we can't do anything about it, I believe what they are trying to do is what they have always done with their supercharger network i. e. offer a service that is fair for all their customers.

100% sure this has nothing to do with Model 3.

 

[SageBrush]

Agree -- this is not set up for the Model 3, although the Model 3 charge rates were no doubt considered when the tiers were decided.

I just figured it was mostly in place to distinguish stations that are shared.

There seems to be a presumption that the tier charging will vary as power jumps above or below the threshold. I'm skeptical since this is very much a KISS solution. Setting the cost rate by the initial power draw also has the advantage of discouraging people from charging the last ~ 20% of the battery unless it is needed.

 

[deonb]

A 100kW battery at a 90kWh supercharger will have a slower charge than a 55kW battery at a 60kWh tier 1 limited supercharger.

Wooaaw! There are so many unit of measurement errors in that statement, that it needs to get dragged outside and shot.

 

[SageBrush]

Wooaaw! There are so many unit of measurement errors in that statement, that it needs to get dragged outside and shot.

The first time I saw that post, I quickly skipped it to avoid vertigo.

Now I realize he just swapped kW and kWh units although I still have absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

 

[TexasEV]

The first time I saw that post, I quickly skipped it to avoid vertigo.

Now I realize he just swapped kW and kWh units although I still have absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

That's OK, neither does he.

 

[Electroman]

He was just trying to impress upon the rest, that Tesla is out to screw M3 owners. Hence that convoluted logic.

 

[SageBrush]

He was just trying to impress upon the rest, that Tesla is out to screw M3 owners. Hence that convoluted logic.

Ah .. so Tesla is out to screw the goal they have been working so hard to reach for ~ 10 years.

Brilliant logic, indeed

 

[Reeler]

We are all speculating here. I guess we'll know what rate of charge the smaller battery will support at the reveal. Will it be the 50-70kWh rate similar models support or the higher rates the larger batteries in the luxury class support.

 

[Gen3]

We are all speculating here. I guess we'll know what rate of charge the smaller battery will support at the reveal. Will it be the 50-70kWh rate similar models support or the higher rates the larger batteries in the luxury class support.

Elon just tweeted over Christmas about v3 supercharger being above 350KW. Model 3 will be at least as good as current model s but I'm betting a lot better. Makes no sense for it to be slower. New cells are further optimized for automotive application.

KW = charge rate,
KWH = battery energy.

 

[SageBrush]

We are all speculating here. I guess we'll know what rate of charge the smaller battery will support at the reveal. Will it be the 50-70kWh rate similar models support or the higher rates the larger batteries in the luxury class support.

Same battery chemistry, so any differences will simply be pack size related.

Most Model 3 will not have larger packs than the Model X or S but pack sizes are options for each model.

 

[deonb]

We are all speculating here. I guess we'll know what rate of charge the smaller battery will support at the reveal. Will it be the 50-70kWh rate similar models support or the higher rates the larger batteries in the luxury class support.

I give you that Tesla can do some stupid stuff sometime - but bogging down their Superchargers network with a bunch of artificially slow-charging Model 3's is not one of them. Never mind that it detracts from the Model 3 experience - it detracts from the Model S / X experience.

It makes absolutely no sense trying to upsell faster charging to Model S's and then artificially clog up that very same network that they're supposed to use. Maybe if Model 3's have no Supercharging at all... but we already know that it does.

No, Tesla is not that dumb. Not even Bob Lutz is that dumb.

 

[dsvick]

We are all speculating here. I guess we'll know what rate of charge the smaller battery will support at the reveal. Will it be the 50-70kWh rate similar models support or the higher rates the larger batteries in the luxury class support.

Now you're changing your original question. The original topic was about the SC tiers being for Model 3 and non-Model 3, now your just saying the Model 3 will be slower to charge .... You can't change the argument mid-conversation....

 

[nwdiver]

..... LOL.... holy crap.... talk about reading way, way..... WAY too much into something....

Tesla can't charge per kWh in some places... they have to charge per minute; so if your charge rate is >60kW you're in tier 2. <60kW tier 1. When you start charging you'll probably start in tier 2... as the charge tapers you shift to tier 1. Tesla isn't going to nerf charge speed... that would just cause more congestion.

Or... is this more kW vs kWh confusion.... we really need better Power/Energy units

 

[SageBrush]

Or... is this more kW vs kWh confusion.... we really need better Power/Energy units

I think some countries use MJ (megajoule)

 

[nwdiver]

I think some countries use MJ (megajoule)

I like it... gonna order a P300 badge for my P85

 

[ohmman]

I like it... gonna order a P300 badge for my P85

Have at it. I'm ordering a P73000 badge for mine.

Unit guesses?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

We are all speculating here. I guess we'll know what rate of charge the smaller battery will support at the reveal. Will it be the 50-70kWh rate similar models support or the higher rates the larger batteries in the luxury class support.

No, it's really simple:

1) The Model 3 will charge as fast as they can get it to charge, balanced with a low-cost battery. It's very important to Tesla to have the cars be able to charge quickly because Tesla is trying to sell not just long-range BEVs, but _long-distance_ BEVs. The Model S60 charged up rates up to 90kW, which is 1.5C. A 60kW limit would imply a much lower C-rate.

2) There are only 2 tiers because Tesla has justification for charging less for 1/2 a Supercharger or less. The most common reason to be charging below 60kW is that a car is the 2nd to plug in at a pair of stalls. That set-up would make Tesla owners really annoyed if they had to pay full rate per minute when their charging is slowed due to the Supercharger sharing.

Tesla only charges per minute in states where the law prevents a fee per kWh. If Tesla had a large number of tiers based on charging rate, then they'd be charging for power per minute, which would be tantamount to charging per kWh, and regulators would very likely frown upon it.

 

[nwdiver]

Tesla only charges per minute in states where the law prevents a fee per kWh. If Tesla had a large number of tiers based on charging rate, then they'd be charging for power per minute, which would be tantamount to charging per kWh, and regulators would very likely frown upon it.

We have a source counter at work that counts a certain number of 'hits' as seconds... everyone thinks it's counting time. Perhaps Tesla should have a 'clock' that counts 'wh' and reads 'seconds'.... still charge by the 'minute'