Model 3 vs Model S long trips at 80 mph

[gearbox]

I have seen a few graphs and cant seem to locate them but range is the most important thing and I know the Model 3 requires less energy to drive so how does it compare to the mode S
Model 3 350 miles per charge
Model s 400 miles
(I would factor in the Y as its nice-looking but only 325 miles)

if I am going 80 mph in each vehicle, how many miles will I actually get? I am seeing how close model 3 is to the S even though they are different price points.

Thank you all

 

[jjrandorin]

This was already sort of done by teslike I believe, at least for the 2019 models. It should be similar:

Teslike.com

 

[JCtx]

I think it's basically the same, which was a disappointment for me, since I was considering an S LR for me. So not only the 402 S LR doesn't have more range than the 353 3 LR at 80 mph, but it takes longer to charge. So it doesn't really have more range when traveling at high speeds (TX here)... but it makes sense, since it's a much heavier/larger car; you need a larger battery to power the heavier/larger car at the same speeds and distance as the smaller one. I don't understand how Tesla got away with the 402 EPA range, to be honest. I'm going to buy a nice ICE road trip car instead.

 

[rosegrif1]

I'm going to buy a nice ICE road trip car instead.

Just remember the new S will charge faster and possibly be more efficient.. it’s probably going to be the ultimate long trip EV

 

[gearbox]

Which new S? The 2021.

 

[gearbox]

Thank you did the information and i agree that is disappointing

I think it's basically the same, which was a disappointment for me, since I was considering an S LR for me. So not only the 402 S LR doesn't have more range than the 353 3 LR at 80 mph, but it takes longer to charge. So it doesn't really have more range when traveling at high speeds (TX here)... but it makes sense, since it's a much heavier/larger car; you need a larger battery to power the heavier/larger car at the same speeds and distance as the smaller one. I don't understand how Tesla got away with the 402 EPA range, to be honest. I'm going to buy a nice ICE road trip car instead.

.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

In December, we did a 1000 mile convoy from Reno to Denver with a 2017 Model S 100D and a 2018 Model 3 AWD LR and typically had the speed set to 80 mph. Since we were in a convoy, we stopped at all the same Superchargers for the same amount of time but the S could've skipped a couple stops along the way. The 3 couldn't, even though there's only about 25 miles difference in max range. The 3 didn't really charge any faster on that trip since there were no v3 Superchargers along that route.

Yesterday, the 2017 S 100D and our 2020 Model Y Performance were both running low and we stopped at a v3 Supercharger with nearly the exact same rated miles remaining (different kWh, of course) and the same amount of preconditioning time. We were surprised at how close the charge times and charge rates were. It was very cold out and neither battery was fully warmed up. Initially the Y was charging around 115 kW while the S was at 85 kW and ramping up. In a few minutes, the Y slowed down since it has a smaller battery and the S was over 110 kW while the Y had dropped to 85 kW. Later, they were both at 65 kW at the same time. We set both to 80% and the Y finished a few minutes before the S. I don't remember the exact numbers but the Y added about 160 miles (~53 kW) about 5 minutes faster than the S added 190 miles (~63 kw).

While all newer cars can charge at 250 kW at v3 Superchargers, it usually only stays that high for a few minutes. I've actually hit 187 kW on the 2017 Model S. It remains to be seen if the new 2021 Model S will be able to charge faster higher than 250 kW. I'm pretty sure the Plaid+ will be able to charge at much higher rates.

BTW, if you use abetterrouteplanner.com, you can try comparing various car models. I ran the numbers for a 600 mile trip with a 2017 Model S100D vs. a new 2021 Model S LR and the new S would only be about 7 minutes faster over 600 miles (with two charges instead of three). I also ran the numbers for the next gen roadster and found it would shave over an hour off the trip and reduce the number of charges down to one.

 

[user212_nr]

if I am going 80 mph in each vehicle, how many miles will I actually get? I am seeing how close model 3 is to the S even though they are different price points.

In terms of deciding between the two cars, I don't think that "50 miles range" should be a significant factor. The Model S right now is geared toward selling the higher acceleration Plaid/Plaid+ models. You do have a few minor differences like a roomier interior, but it isn't going to be a good "value".

if I am going 80 mph in each vehicle, how many miles will I actually get? I am seeing how close model 3 is to the S even though they are different price points.

Why is it important for you to get 80 mph and have a long range at that speed? When you are going on a road trip, you have to factor in the total amount of time that you spend charging. If you have a regular destination that is, say 300 miles away and you want to reach it on one charge, well you still have the return journey to think about.

 

[gearbox]

In terms of deciding between the two cars, I don't think that "50 miles range" should be a significant factor. The Model S right now is geared toward selling the higher acceleration Plaid/Plaid+ models. You do have a few minor differences like a roomier interior, but it isn't going to be a good "value".



Why is it important for you to get 80 mph and have a long-range at that speed? When you are going on a road trip, you have to factor in the total amount of time that you spend charging. If you have a regular destination that is, say 300 miles away and you want to reach it on one charge, well you still have the return journey to think about.

I am outside sales so I am always driving and California has superchargers everywhere but if I can make it home before having to charge on some days that is a plus.
my buddy bought a 2018 model 3 and left for vegas and he only got 200 miles before he had to stop as he had 18 miles left on the battery. we thought he would make it as it's 238 to vegas and his full battery was 288.

I think every extra 25 miles is important as said above when the S went against the 3 it didn't technically have to stop at every charger.

although, I agree with your value comment as tesla is focused on the plaid, and the model s isn't the best bang for your buck. And the model S free charging will transfer within the private party. I've done it and a friend just bought a used S.

 

[Rocky_H]

my buddy bought a 2018 model 3 and left for vegas and he only got 200 miles before he had to stop as he had 18 miles left on the battery. we thought he would make it as it's 238 to vegas and his full battery was 288.

Gosh damn! Why do so many people continue to do this exact thing? They try to do this Los Angeles to Las Vegas drive all in one shot at 80+ mph, skipping the Superchargers along the way, and then express indignance and frustration at that being a bad plan.

 

[gearbox]

Gosh damn! Why do so many people continue to do this exact thing? They try to do this Los Angeles to Las Vegas drive all in one shot at 80+ mph, skipping the Superchargers along the way, and then express indignance and frustration at that being a bad plan.

actually, I think tesla should change their range numbers like 99% of drivers go above 65 miles per hour. it would make more sense at 75 or similar and people would not be as shocked. Charging in Baker is easy, I was just surprised at the massive drop when on CC at 78mph

 

[Rocky_H]

You mean the EPA should change their range testing procedures--sure--don't disagree.

 

[user212_nr]

I am outside sales so I am always driving and California has superchargers everywhere but if I can make it home before having to charge on some days that is a plus.

So you would say that you drive in an ordinary day more than 200 miles?

Realistically, at some point your daily driving becomes indistinguishable from a road trip, and you will need to optimize your trips for charging speed. That means driving until near empty (5-15%) and making use of superchargers between 0 and 40% where the supercharging speed is high.

A Better Routeplanner

Why do so many people continue to do this exact thing? They try to do this Los Angeles to Las Vegas drive all in one shot at 80+ mph, skipping the Superchargers along the way, and then express indignance and frustration at that being a bad plan.

People just get in the car and go, treating superchargers like a gas station. There isn't any good "public awareness" or "driver training" for new EV drivers. Maybe it is somewhere in the manual if you read it or have a friend.

 

[gearbox]

This forum is awesome so many great comments and ideas. Thank you, everyone.

I typically drive 100-265 3-4 days a week. several years ago I had a 2015 P90D and I loved the speed but the range at 100% was 230 and just didn't make sense to keep it when I had to charge somewhere almost every single day. I went back to an ice, but now tesla's are definitely going 300+ and faster charging times.
I do like the model Y the best, between the 3 cars

 

[jjrandorin]

This forum is awesome so many great comments and ideas. Thank you, everyone.

I typically drive 100-265 3-4 days a week. several years ago I had a 2015 P90D and I loved the speed but the range at 100% was 230 and just didn't make sense to keep it when I had to charge somewhere almost every single day. I went back to an ice, but now tesla's are definitely going 300+ and faster charging times.
I do like the model Y the best, between the 3 cars

(personal opinion post inc, nothing to do with tmc moderation or tmc opinions etc)

I dont think any EVs are there for the use case you specifically are talking about. Teslas are definitely NOT "going 300+ miles" at speeds of 80MPH. If your use case is "I am the proverbial traveling salesperson" and "I dont want to charge mid day", then I dont think we are there yet for you.

You likely need cars with a rated range of 450-500 miles, to achieve "300 miles" traveling 80MPH, or, 265 miles of stop and go all day driving.

 

[Rocky_H]

People just get in the car and go, treating superchargers like a gas station. There isn't any good "public awareness" or "driver training" for new EV drivers. Maybe it is somewhere in the manual if you read it or have a friend.

I don't think it even needs special "awareness" or "training". People just need to get over this allergy they have to taking a 15-20 minute stop once in a while.

I had another exchange of comments today with a friend of mine who is thinking about an electric car, but keeps coming up with worse and worse far-fetched excuses to avoid it. She started off with a post about how she wanted a car that can do 400 miles on a charge. Here it is, for your reading pleasure: (I am R, and she is M)

R: “The current Tesla Model S is EPA rated for 402 miles, but you know--that's EPA rating, so fairly granny-style. Normal people's highway speed driving will be less.”

M: “and I can’t afford an S.”

R: “I guess my comment was more general, that 400 miles is a thing that exists, but yeah, it's going to still take more time for it to be what is in the cheaper version of products. The Model 3 does have a 350 mile version. Honestly, it's kind of unusual for people's bladders to be able to hold for much more than about 300 miles at a time.”

M: “I would drive 8 hours without stopping from Ann Arbor to Washington DC on one tank of gas in my Prius. And, the only Tesla charging stations I’ve seen don’t have a bathroom or convenient store attached. If I could sit safely inside and have a cup of tea, I might budge on the miles needed before a charge.”

R: “I guess I'm confused by what you mean. Both of the Supercharger stations in Toledo are in Meijer grocery store parking lots. So are the ones in Dayton and Ann Arbor. They have bathrooms, and a grocery store is better than just a convenience store.”

M: “I don’t want to walk alone across a giant parking lot to have to buy something to use a Meijer bathroom. The one near me has a Five Guys next to it, so I could get inside fast and drink a milkshake, but I don’t think that’s the norm.”


I need to not respond any more, because I would start losing my temper from frustration and start getting snarky and sarcastic. I am thinking: “You know what’s not “the norm”? Driving 8 hours non-stop! Being unwilling to walk through a grocery store parking lot!

 

[user212_nr]

I don't think it even needs special "awareness" or "training". People just need to get over this allergy they have to taking a 15-20 minute stop once in a while.

I was thinking more in terms of people who have never even heard about how a supercharger is intended to be used. Even though I knew that it charges faster 0-40% it wasn't until I used the ABRP software that I realized you were intended to drive that way, and that was 1 year after owning the car.

M: “I would drive 8 hours without stopping from Ann Arbor to Washington DC on one tank of gas in my Prius. And, the only Tesla charging stations I’ve seen don’t have a bathroom or convenient store attached. If I could sit safely inside and have a cup of tea, I might budge on the miles needed before a charge.”

I think that for people who are able to drive 8 hours non-stop and not experience discomfort, that an EV is not there yet for them. Now if the car could really drive 640 miles in 8 hours on autopilot, that would change things a lot.

Quite a few other categories of people still that aren't a good fit for EVs, like urban apartment dwellers and those with long commutes.

 

[KenC]

I have seen a few graphs and cant seem to locate them but range is the most important thing and I know the Model 3 requires less energy to drive so how does it compare to the mode S
Model 3 350 miles per charge
Model s 400 miles
(I would factor in the Y as its nice-looking but only 325 miles)

if I am going 80 mph in each vehicle, how many miles will I actually get? I am seeing how close model 3 is to the S even though they are different price points.

Thank you all

You don’t drive a BEV the same way you drive an ICE. Run some simulations in ABRP. What works for one person may not work for your specific situation.

Having said that, in general, the shortest trip times are when you drive fast, and charge at low SOC levels, from 10 to 60%.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

actually, I think tesla should change their range numbers like 99% of drivers go above 65 miles per hour. it would make more sense at 75 or similar and people would not be as shocked. Charging in Baker is easy, I was just surprised at the massive drop when on CC at 78mph

Does Bun Boy still exist ? I haven't been that way in a while...

 

[user212_nr]

This forum is awesome so many great comments and ideas. Thank you, everyone.

I typically drive 100-265 3-4 days a week. several years ago I had a 2015 P90D and I loved the speed but the range at 100% was 230 and just didn't make sense to keep it when I had to charge somewhere almost every single day. I went back to an ice, but now tesla's are definitely going 300+ and faster charging times.
I do like the model Y the best, between the 3 cars

By "charge every day", I assume you mean at home and at the supercharger, because if you mean you don't charge at home, then that is your issue.

If you are driving 265 miles, then even at 80mph that is 3+ hours. A 6 minute SC stop is nothing.


Both these screenshots are at 80mph Model 3 LR.

On the second route, it can be made at 65 mph with no charging, or 80mph with a 6 minute stop. It is 40 minutes faster than driving at 65 mph.