kevincwelch
Active Member
The Model S struck a metal object causing this much damage - - so much force - - yet the driver had to be pleasantly reminded to pull over safely and exit the vehicle?
Something else here.
Something else here.
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Model S Accident/Fire
- Thread starter joshuaeven
- Start date
NigelM
Recovering Member
20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. ;-) Well done on your guesswork but at the time we didn't have that information, I apologize if anything came across as personal, it wasn't intended that way.
I was happy to see that email as well. Not all owners read TMC or Elon's blog regularly (or obsessively in my case
) so it was a good idea to send it out to all current owners and reservations holders.I assume they sent out similar emails to more of the press outlets, but that will probably not do much. Elon should do some on air interviews.
One is gone, called my buddy, and wife insisted they buy an Audi--period. Going tomorrow to get a A7--hate that. We were all going to Austin Gallery tomorrow to just wrap up color, and then order. After this crap yesterday--all went into toilet fast.
The other is probably going with Cayenne at this point per the wife. What is unfortunate about this, as we all know the wife makes the decisions (and women don't start on the sexist crap, not in the mood for it) generally on car purchases. Here in Austin (in my circle of friends), the wife stay's home, watch Good Morning America or whatever trash morning show, and then by the time the husband gets home, all of they know Tesla's catch fire--don't care about facts, just heard it from some idiot reporter on TV--and it's gospel.
Two Tesla sales gone--after I have worked my a** off to convince them other wise. I hate this crap.
There hasn't been anything else since it happened.
Oh, just a few minor PR issues--all the bad press, 1M youtube views, and all of the other BS that comes with the mainstream press spinning something innocent into this nightmare.
But, other than that, no, nothing here. Just a bunch of happy Tesla owners.
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Great response, and you helped me see it from another direction. His statement IS technically correct.
Another masterful PR from them. I admire how they've handled the crisis thus far, from a business perspective.
Tex, I've thought about the sales impact and am not too concerned.
Yes, in the short-term, some will be reactive to the media coverage of the past few days, but each month that goes by this will be less of an issue. A year from now (unless, of course, the freak accident assessment turns out to have been premature), there will be roughly triple the sample size on the car's fire safety.
You might say, but what about the cloud over the Volt with it's safety testing? Unlike the Volt issue, this happened to one car, not three of a small number tested, this happened AFTER the product has been on the market for a year, AFTER it has vastly turned around a huge chunk of the public's attitude towards EVs, and it happened with a company the public has a very high opinion of rather than substantial distrust and frustration.
So, now do you see Brainman's point better... if there is a short-term impact on reservations, it's pretty irrelevant, they don't report reservations, and they are demand limited. Could there be a bit of awkward Q&A about impact on sales on Q3 call? Yes, but I just don't think it's a major problem. They survived a more awkward moment the quarter call following the Broder incident when they first announced they'd no longer report reservation totals.
Well, it is now 2.1 million views but it has started to taper off a little. Will post an updated graph tomorrow. The worst may be over. Stock also stabilized today.
That is truly unfortunate that some spouses make up there mind based on sensational "news" reports, and ignore facts.
It does make me thankful that, for the most part, my wife is fairly logical and listens to reason. When I told her last night about the "Tesla Fire" that was in the news, she was not even phased. She was impressed by how told the driver to pullover, etc. Then we told the kids the story of our Dodge Shadow that spontaneously burn up at a stop light...
Tesla has benefited for the past year and a half from "celebrity" level publicity. So much so that they haven't had to do any conventional advertising. They're experiencing the downside of that level of scrutiny. In the end, this was a huge engineering success. Vehicle fire, occupants were able to pull over (in fact, instructed to do so) and there were no casualties.
Regarding your friend's purchase decisions, if it's the husband's car, it should be the husband's decision. Wife's car, wife's decision. Anyway, that's the way it works in my family. Even Tesla can't control that type of stuff.
pfq, fwiw, what I meant by my "standing on a whale... " comment, was that after 80 pages of speculation, we get by far the most definitive information from Tesla, and, indeed there's high confidence that there is no fundamental design flaw discovered, is it really the most compelling point of discussion to debate whether his reassurances about the car's safety in relationship to ICE car's is too inaccurate because there are ICE cars of all ages out there?
Look, we all got some good news to end this week, so I'm sorry if that comes across as argumentative... let's just say, hey can we just feel good about what we learned from his blog for a while?
a note to Tex: wow, just saw what you personally experienced past two days with friends changing there minds. I can see why you wonder about this.
Look, we all got some good news to end this week, so I'm sorry if that comes across as argumentative... let's just say, hey can we just feel good about what we learned from his blog for a while?
a note to Tex: wow, just saw what you personally experienced past two days with friends changing there minds. I can see why you wonder about this.
Take them on a test drive, they'll change their mind. Or perhaps put it into their perspective. I drive so much that driving an ICE car would be like throwing away a few Louis Vuitton handbags every month in gas expensive and oil changes.
Actually why don't you just show them videos of ICE cars blowing up (with ppl in it). That's 5x more likely to happen than an MS catching on fire. Or perhaps show them pictures of high speed collisions in ICE vehicles and the gruesome aftermath vs headon tesla collisions where the passenger compartment remains unscathed. Do you have kids? Safest car to drive them around in is a Model S, not a Porsche. You want to put your kids in danger? Then drive them around in a Porsche instead of a Model S. You get the point. Just try harder. Or do what I did - buy the car first and then tell the wife you bought it afterwards. Better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Now we are getting into semantics. I believe it's pretty clear no one was asking for 100% proof that the battery was involved in the fire or started the fire. But they were asking for evidence for that. This can include eyewitness statements that mention the pack (didn't happen), the fire department report I linked which mention the pack, Tesla's statements which mention the pack, or a picture that shows the pack on fire or with fire damage, etc. None of these prove the pack was where the fire started (and the statements are not clear proof the pack was actually involved), but it's evidence that the pack was involved.
The video is not evidence of this given you can't tell where the source of the fire is (you can only tell it's in the front and so can exclude the rear and passenger area of the vehicle based on Tesla's statement). That's why people were throwing out all sorts of theories on the cause of the fire based on the video and pictures (12V battery, frunk parts, something the owner was carrying inside the frunk, coolant, etc).
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Agree it's not the most compelling point of discussion, maybe not compelling at all, but it is _A_ point of discussion.
I already felt great about it. Pack design worked beautifully. The blog reads mostly like a marketing piece to the masses who aren't educated about Model S design. Didn't learn anything new.
My friend I'm with you--I wish I were on the Tesla payroll.
Talking to this one wife into it was hard enough--I did it all.
Then one sorry a** report that was nothing at the end of the day killed it. "Our kids could be killed"--that's an exact quote. I'm not going there.
I think my point is bigger than my friends, I'm worried about the others thinking the same thing on an order of magnitude in the thousands.
We have all received jabs from friends, which is fine. What I'm concerned is what about all of those perspective buyers we DON'T know, and don't have an oppty to explain things.
Heck, I can't even convince those people I DO know to buy one at this point.
Just pissed...back to the vino.
My point is that the battery covers the bottom of the car at the most and any similar object can hit any area of the battery which may cause fire. The chance for a gasoline car to go on fire is when it hit the tank. The chance for Tesla to go on fire is greater as most of the bottom contains the battery. The danger is that it can happen near the passenger/driver sides and this when it becomes unsafe.
I don't like the way Tesla blame others to avoid it own shortcoming. I am not saying ICE safer or hybrid or pure EV or hydrogen or biofuel or xyz technology but to accept that this can create a fire.
One thing bug is everything is at the bottom of the vehicle and water of knee level or around that may create more problems, but that's not the only problem but ground clearance is pretty low.
I don't like the way Tesla blame others to avoid it own shortcoming. I am not saying ICE safer or hybrid or pure EV or hydrogen or biofuel or xyz technology but to accept that this can create a fire.
One thing bug is everything is at the bottom of the vehicle and water of knee level or around that may create more problems, but that's not the only problem but ground clearance is pretty low.
Have to say the performance and safety of the Tesla were once again demonstrated with this event (imagine 25 tons hitting a gas tank), but more importantly Tesla's communication was on the money. They provided hard facts quickly once they were known (even acknowledged the battery involvement before the root cause of the fire was known), didn't speculate and seemed to work with the owner very well.
Glad to be a Tesla owner - and enjoyed the discourse on this thread.
Glad to be a Tesla owner - and enjoyed the discourse on this thread.
Perhaps my note wasn't clear. I don't think Model S is more prone with age, but even if it was it's a non-issue since the fleet is not even 1 year old on average.
My concern is Elon uses the 150k car fire stat. This includes fires of all kinds for all cars. So lets realize the average age of the population is ~ 11 years, and most of those fires are related to typical ICE issues in the engine block, or old 12Vs, etc. These are cars that have had a lot of lifetime miles put on them, have been through weather, and have aging components. In other words, they are prone to fire. The 150k represents a stat for a population that is prone to fire.
I believe the mistake occurs when he calculates frequency with miles-driven and uses it as a basis of comparison. IF every fire is a random occurrence (like running over debris), Elon would be correct. Random occurrences happen with constant frequencies over many miles driven, so the comparison would be fine.
BUT, most of those 150k AREN'T related to random events like running over road debris. They are related to the typical engine block/12V/fuel line things you would expect. Things that are at risk as components age and fail. Things that, by the way, aren't found in the Model S (except the 12V, but again you have an age issue).
So Elon effectively says "look at our super rare frequency of a random fire related to driving miles (like running over debris) of our new cars vs. the more common frequency of fires of all sorts related to cars averaging a decade older". -> Of course the Model S is going to look golden!
I don't doubt the claim that BEVs are safer than ICE cars. I just take issue with using all these statistics to provide false credence. I think it's misleading, and, if you perceive that, it begs the question why. Maybe the answer is to dazzle the 99% of folks who won't appreciate the issue.
Or maybe I'm wrong -- that's why I'm asking for someone to point out how I'm wrong
i agree with the above.
not sure if the point has been made already, but to me the correspondence between Tesla and the owner of the car that caught fire did not add any information. I think it was likely included due to all the conspiracy talk on this forum. poor dude's car catches fire, and next thing he knows is his previous work experience is being posted on the internet and he is being called a saboteur. i think the e-mail exchange was probably included just to help the dude out, maybe even at the owners request.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
New AP story posted on ABC news. At least they are putting things in perspective. I guess as a result of the comments posted by "teslots" on their website.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The CEO of electric car company Tesla says a battery in a Model S that caught fire this week was apparently impaled by a metal object.Elon Musk gave more detail in a blog post Friday about the fire that became an Internet sensation and unsettled Tesla investors. He also defended the car's battery technology.
Musk wrote in a blog post Friday that fires are more common in conventional gas-powered vehicles.
"For consumers concerned about fire risk, there should be absolutely zero doubt that it is safer to power a car with a battery than a large tank of highly flammable liquid," Musk wrote.
The CEO said a curved metal component was apparently the culprit in causing a Tesla to catch on fire Tuesday. He says the object's shape led to a powerful hit on the underside of the vehicle, punching a 3-inch hole through an armor plate that protects the car's bottom.
The company said the car properly contained the blaze. The driver was able to exit the highway in the Seattle suburb of Kent before flames engulfed the front of the vehicle.
Of the estimated 194,000 vehicle fires in the U.S. each year, the vast majority are in cars and trucks with gasoline or diesel engines. Electric vehicles make up less than 1 percent of the cars sold in the U.S.
Full story http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/tesla-fire-shows-electrics-face-safety-challenges-20463902
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The CEO of electric car company Tesla says a battery in a Model S that caught fire this week was apparently impaled by a metal object.Elon Musk gave more detail in a blog post Friday about the fire that became an Internet sensation and unsettled Tesla investors. He also defended the car's battery technology.
Musk wrote in a blog post Friday that fires are more common in conventional gas-powered vehicles.
"For consumers concerned about fire risk, there should be absolutely zero doubt that it is safer to power a car with a battery than a large tank of highly flammable liquid," Musk wrote.
The CEO said a curved metal component was apparently the culprit in causing a Tesla to catch on fire Tuesday. He says the object's shape led to a powerful hit on the underside of the vehicle, punching a 3-inch hole through an armor plate that protects the car's bottom.
The company said the car properly contained the blaze. The driver was able to exit the highway in the Seattle suburb of Kent before flames engulfed the front of the vehicle.
Of the estimated 194,000 vehicle fires in the U.S. each year, the vast majority are in cars and trucks with gasoline or diesel engines. Electric vehicles make up less than 1 percent of the cars sold in the U.S.
Full story http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/tesla-fire-shows-electrics-face-safety-challenges-20463902
bareyb
Active Member
I'd shoot a link to Elon's Blog post anyway. It's pretty convincing. On a happier note, I'm glad all this appears to be moving behind us. I feel more confident than ever in Tesla, I just hope we get a nice long break from any drama. The quarterly report should be nice little up tick for the stock too.
