Model S Plaid Brakes Are Terrible!

[bhzmark]

My problem was stopping it from 100mph.

Car and Driver test personnel didn’t have your problem (whether with the car or otherwise).

In repeated tests in stops from ***100*** (not 70) mph the Tesla plaid stock brakes stopped shorter than the BMW M5 CS. But this was already explained to you above but somehow you missed it. Perhaps because it didn’t confirm your bias.

 

[Duke846]

good. I was thinking that i have been having the wrong argument here. And that is where both sides of the argument have been passing each other.

So I’ll try I to recalibrate the point I have been trying to make. The oem brakes do indeed stop the car well from 70ish mph . That was never my problem.

My problem was stopping it from 100mph. I’m not even talking on the track. I’m just talking on the interstate. it is very easy to get the plaid up above 100mph on the regular interstate when overtaking. The car is also so stable at 100+ that you don’t realize you’re fast u til you see the 3 digits on the speedometer. Atlanta’s interstates are 5 lane mini talladegas so it happens more often than usual.

The few times I had to slam on the brakes when I was dangerously fast, I realized that “oh sh1t” was happening a bit more than I’d like. I ran the car around in chill mode for a week after and realized I was being an idiot. So operation brake overhaul happened.

I think oem brakes work just fine if you’re putzing around town or occasionally cross 70mph.

Wow dammm that’s definitely not how mine are. I can hammer them at 140 and get anti skid all the way to stop almost.

 

[Mash]

Cold track pads aren’t dangerous? What are you smoking? I know tesla changed the ibooster so this is probably what he is dealing with in the first gen plaid.

What?

 

[Duke846]

What?

Electronic brake. It’s a different part number in later model S’s.

 

[Mash]

Electronic brake. It’s a different part number in later model S’s.

I know that. What's that nonsense about track pads. I'm driving with track pads on the street for more than 10 years.

 

[Duke846]

I know that. What's that nonsense about track pads. I'm driving with track pads on the street for more than 10 years.

Really? You’re going to argue this? You obviously have a track pad with a higher range operating temperature.
When you just start driving, track pads still being cold often don't have bite and friction coefficient to stop the car at the rate the driver expects, and there can lie the (thud) problem. Generally, most track pads need to warm up to work well. This varies by pad, but it shouldn't be disregarded. Also, if you only use track pads, other drivers of the car may be caught out.
track pads are also more abrasive on your rotors. It all really depends on what you need.

 

[bhzmark]

Really? You’re going to argue this? You obviously have a track pad with a higher range operating temperature.
When you just start driving, track pads still being cold often don't have bite and friction coefficient to stop the car at the rate the driver expects, and there can lie the (thud) problem. Generally, most track pads need to warm up to work well. This varies by pad, but it shouldn't be disregarded. Also, if you only use track pads, other drivers of the car may be caught out.
track pads are also more abrasive on your rotors. It all really depends on what you need.

Exactly right. For instance on this chart of track pad effectiveness at different temperatures, only the OEM pads and the HP+ pads have decent stopping performance at cold temperatures.

I think it is possible that, at least in the summer, a really high speed one emergency brake application will quickly (but not quite instantly) bring the pad to a better operating temperature to generate more friction -- but that short delay could make quite the difference. (chart is NOT Tesla specific -- just a track pad friction chart I found in 5 seconds of googling) https://www.ecstuning.com/b-hawk-parts/front-rear-hps-performance-brake-pad-kit/hb272f.763akt

 

[tm1v2]

Different track pads are...different! Some will stop a car just fine when cold. The ones I used many years ago did.

Were they good as street pads? No, absolutely not, they were track pads. When cold they wouldn't stay bedded, the friction came from them scraping away at the rotor. That was very convenient for scrapping off the street pad material before bedding them, or for unbedding themselves before switching back to street pads. I knew they were done unbedding when they started sounding like 20 school busses all screeching to a halt at once.

If you were to keep using those specific track pads as street pads, I'm sure they would trash your rotors, not to mention you'd piss off everybody around you with the awful noise. (They were silent when properly bedded and used on track.) But would they stop the car? Hell yes they would. Better than many street pads. Lots of friction.

That was just one specific pad. I don't doubt that some track pads really don't bite when cold. Which seems fine, track pads are for the track. They're not all of a kind though.

 

[Duke846]

I only trust Callahan brake pads!!!!!!

 

[Duke846]

The one with a guarantee on the box.

 

[Mash]

Exactly right. For instance on this chart of track pad effectiveness at different temperatures, only the OEM pads and the HP+ pads have decent stopping performance at cold temperatures.

I think it is possible that, at least in the summer, a really high speed one emergency brake application will quickly (but not quite instantly) bring the pad to a better operating temperature to generate more friction -- but that short delay could make quite the difference. (chart is NOT Tesla specific -- just a track pad friction chart I found in 5 seconds of googling) https://www.ecstuning.com/b-hawk-parts/front-rear-hps-performance-brake-pad-kit/hb272f.763akt



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If you believe that chart - there are tons of pads they have with Mu = 0.0. Reality is that they aren't. Almost nothing has such a low friction. It's just a bad chart.

Tesla stock pads are low Mu in the first place. They have cold and hot friction similar to cold mid temp track pads. High temp track compounds might have lower cold friction than stock. But most people don't put extreme compounds on a street car. There are also sintered metal high temp compounds which have almost the same hot and cold friction and they cost like a set of cast wheels.

This is factually incorrect to say that track pads are dangerous in street use except rare cases. But they are expensive, can become noisy, hard on rotors, mess up abs and generally not recommended. But most of them stop well enough even during winter.

 

[bhzmark]

Tesla stock pads are low Mu in the first place.

wow. the bmw pads on the M5 CS must be even worse!!!

 

[Duke846]

If you believe that chart - there are tons of pads they have with Mu = 0.0. Reality is that they aren't. Almost nothing has such a low friction. It's just a bad chart.

Tesla stock pads are low Mu in the first place. They have cold and hot friction similar to cold mid temp track pads. High temp track compounds might have lower cold friction than stock. But most people don't put extreme compounds on a street car. There are also sintered metal high temp compounds which have almost the same hot and cold friction and they cost like a set of cast wheels.

This is factually incorrect to say that track pads are dangerous in street use except rare cases. But they are expensive, can become noisy, hard on rotors, mess up abs and generally not recommended. But most of them stop well enough even during winter.

Just added to the plaid, work much better.

 

[MFrunkerOG]

bravo. You posted another image. I was beginning to think the car and driver braking test was the only one you had!

 

[bhzmark]

bravo. You posted another image. I was beginning to think the car and driver braking test was the only one you had!

For those wanting diversity, while the Plaid brakes from 100 mph in 284 feet, the much lighter 2022 911 Targa 4 GTS takes 285 feet. Tested: 2022 Porsche 911 Targa 4 GTS Demonstrates the Art of Compromise

 

[Duke846]

For those wanting diversity, while the Plaid brakes from 100 mph in 284 feet, the much lighter 2022 911 Targa 4 GTS takes 285 feet. Tested: 2022 Porsche 911 Targa 4 GTS Demonstrates the Art of Compromise

That’s because of cold track pads!!!

 

[MFrunkerOG]

Always with the comparison… smfh! Talk to me when the 0-100 distance is higher or equal to the 100-0 distance!

 

[bhzmark]

That’s because of cold track pads!!!

Yes it could be. But under the testing methodology they do repeated tests and throw out the best score and report the next best (or maybe avg) so they aren't totally cold as they might be on a highway in the winter.

Over a decade ago C&D did a multi car test that compared cold braking and repeated braking until they induced fade. Would be good to see an updated test like that.

 

[Duke846]

Always with the comparison… smfh! Talk to me when the 0-100 distance is higher or equal to the 100-0 distance!

If only somebody had a bmw vs plaid braking chart!!!!

 

[Duke846]

Yes it could be. But under the testing methodology they do repeated tests and throw out the best score and report the next best (or maybe avg) so they aren't totally cold as they might be on a highway in the winter.

Over a decade ago C&D did a multi car test that compared cold braking and repeated braking until they induced fade. Would be good to see an updated test like that.

Sorry I should add I rarely reply without sarcasm. ( even that comment was a little sarcastic.) I always do.