Model S Technical / Mechanical Issues

[Destiny1701]

I own a March 16' delivery S90D with classic bumper. (Feb 16' build). Lately over the last month the car seems to have developed a slight 'wind buffeting' air pressure problem while driving at speeds above 45mph. I've checked all the major seals, trim etc and I'm aware of a bumper flap issue on the new fascia so have also ruled out any exterior bumper imperfections. It's quite annoying and even with the sunroof open to vent, the buffeting continues.

I've seen reference to the 21 turbines being a possible culprit as they are not designed LH or RH and thus one side will alwaya slice wind differently. If that was the case, the would have started when I purchased the car new.

Anyone had any similar issue and resolution? Maybe air flow ducts inside the bumper?

 

[internalaudit]

What other components (that an independent mechanic or a DIY can't definitely fix) can make the car un-driveable besides a defective battery or drive unit since it is only those two components that are warranted for eight years? Just considering whether the ESA is worthwhile purchasing (for a future Model 3; I don't have a Model S).

I can only think of the malfunction of the center display but I'm sure there are others. How much of these other components are excluded from the ESA (I don't have a copy of the ESA and its exclusions)?

Many thanks.

New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your Tesla vehicle is protected by a 4 year or 50,000 miles (80,000 km) (whichever occurs first) New Vehicle Limited Warranty and 8 year or unlimited miles Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty. These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur under normal use during the coverage period.

What is the Tesla Extended Service Agreement?
Extended Service Agreements cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of most parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla during the coverage period, excluding the vehicle’s lithium-ion battery and drive unit, which have their own separate warranty. Coverage is based upon the purchased agreement option and takes effect on the date that your original New Vehicle Limited Warranty expires.

 

[scottm]

What other components (that an independent mechanic or a DIY can't definitely fix) can make the car un-driveable besides a defective battery or drive unit since it is only those two components that are warranted for eight years? Just considering whether the ESA is worthwhile purchasing (for a future Model 3; I don't have a Model S).

I can only think of the malfunction of the center display but I'm sure there are others. How much of these other components are excluded from the ESA (I don't have a copy of the ESA and its exclusions)?

Many thanks.

New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your Tesla vehicle is protected by a 4 year or 50,000 miles (80,000 km) (whichever occurs first) New Vehicle Limited Warranty and 8 year or unlimited miles Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty. These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur under normal use during the coverage period.

What is the Tesla Extended Service Agreement?
Extended Service Agreements cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of most parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla during the coverage period, excluding the vehicle’s lithium-ion battery and drive unit, which have their own separate warranty. Coverage is based upon the purchased agreement option and takes effect on the date that your original New Vehicle Limited Warranty expires.

You should phrase this question the other way around... "what components does ESA cover that are worthwhile having the insurance of ESA due to possibly prohibitive repair cost on them"? Hint: use the cost of the ESA as the "prohibitive" mark.

So start by writing down the components that are covered, and beside each write down the estimated cost of part and its repair. Multiple each by chances of that part failing or needing repair, for your particular situation.

While you're at it, write down parts that aren't covered, that you'd be out of pocket anyway even if you did have ESA.

Then you apply your scale of risk, and decide if it's worth it to you. And congratulations, you are now an insurance actuarial (for yourself).

If you are asking about odds/chances of reliability of parts versus cost of ESA... well, you should know that ESA is priced (on average) to cover losses on cars where it actually has to pay out. Like any insurance policy.

ESA insurance is a gamble, wagering against your car. Kind of pessimistic.

And finally, are you feelin' lucky?

 

[internalaudit]

You should phrase this question the other way around... "what components does ESA cover that are worthwhile having the insurance of ESA due to possibly prohibitive repair cost on them"? Hint: use the cost of the ESA as the "prohibitive" mark.

So start by writing down the components that are covered, and beside each write down the estimated cost of part and its repair. Multiple each by chances of that part failing or needing repair, for your particular situation.

While you're at it, write down parts that aren't covered, that you'd be out of pocket anyway even if you did have ESA.

Then you apply your scale of risk, and decide if it's worth it to you. And congratulations, you are now an insurance actuarial (for yourself).

If you are asking about odds/chances of reliability of parts versus cost of ESA... well, you should know that ESA is priced (on average) to cover losses on cars where it actually has to pay out. Like any insurance policy.

ESA insurance is a gamble, wagering against your car. Kind of pessimistic.

And finally, are you feelin' lucky?

Did you get the ESA and if you did, care to share your notes?

I just care about the components that won't allow me to drive the car. As examples:

faulty door look mechanism
speaker goes kaput

I don't care about those much because I can get them repaired in due time and there is no urgency; therefore no chance for me paying the big bucks to have them repaired.

 

[scottm]

I never buy extended warranty on anything..so no, I did not get ESA. My risk tolerance is high on this kind of thing, partly because I am extremely handy and fixing things myself. And Tesla's ESA is notoriously "not a great value", if you google it. Even not knowing the reliability of car / parts... it has much coverage exclusions of high ticket items. Pano roof not opening anyone? Fix that on your own nickel, even if you bought ESA.

Had I got ESA, I'm about 1/4 way through it's protection window already, in less than a year, so that's about $1100 savings / to my credit. I'll use that, if needed, to pay for repair for anything that goes wrong with car, not just ESA covered items.

For less complex cars, like model 3, the "value" of ESA drops even more because there's less to go wrong, and theoretically parts will be cheaper. That will probably be reflected through a lower price ESA for model 3.

 

[JRP3]

I never buy extended warranty on anything

Correct. The only reason they are offered is because they are profitable, and the reason they are profitable is because they are rarely used. Never buy extended warranties/service plans unless you know the product is a piece of crap but for some reason you must purchase it.

 

[rxlawdude]

Tesla's ESA is notoriously "not a great value", if you google it. Even not knowing the reliability of car / parts... it has much coverage exclusions of high ticket items. Pano roof not opening anyone? Fix that on your own nickel, even if you bought ESA.

You sure about that pano roof statement? I don't recall seeing that exclusion in the ESA the last time I read it (after its last update earlier this year). I no longer have access to the ESA language, since I'm officially out of warranty.

 

[internalaudit]

You sure about that pano roof statement? I don't recall seeing that exclusion in the ESA the last time I read it (after its last update earlier this year). I no longer have access to the ESA language, since I'm officially out of warranty.

the link was posted on Tesla but I saved it on my google drive:
vehicle_extended_service_agreement_en_us.pdf

Section F (Exclusions) doesn't seem too exhaustive and looks fair to me at first glance.

 

[scottm]

Exclusions (What Is Not Covered)

This Vehicle ESA does not cover certain parts or any Vehicle damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by, due

to or resulting from normal wear or deterioration, abuse, misuse, negligence, accident, lack of or improper maintenance,

operation, storage or transport, including, but not limited to, any of the following:

• The Battery and drive unit;

• Repairs, modifications or alterations, or the installation or use of fluids, parts or accessories, performed by any service

provider other than a Tesla Authorized Service Center without prior authorization from Tesla;

• Failure to take the Vehicle to a Tesla Authorized Service Center upon discovery of a defect covered by this Vehicle

ESA;

• Negligence, misuse or abuse, such as carrying passengers and cargo exceeding specified load limits or otherwise

overloading the Vehicle or using the Vehicle as a stationary power source, or a lack of or improper repair or

maintenance, including not performing all vehicle maintenance and service requirements during the Agreement Period

of this Vehicle ESA, including those indicated by the vehicle’s systems, observing scheduled inspections or making all

services and repairs, non-compliance with any recall advisories, or use of fluids, parts or accessories other than those

specified in your owner documentation (see maintenance requirements in Section C. Your Responsibilities);

• Accidents, collision, objects striking the Vehicle, theft, vandalism, riots, or acts of God, including, but not limited to,

exposure to sunlight, airborne chemicals, tree sap, animal or insect droppings, road debris (including stone chips),

industry fallout, rail dust, salt, hail, floods, acid rain, fire, explosion, earthquake, windstorm, water, contamination,

lightning and other environmental conditions;

• Tires and wheels;

• Vehicles used for commercial purposes, which includes but is not limited to government purposes, pick-up, and

delivery service, company pool use, or for service or repair calls, route work, or hauling;

• Racing on or off road, competition, speed contests or autocross or for any other purposes for which the Vehicle is not

designed or driving the Vehicle off-road, over uneven, rough, damaged or hazardous surfaces, including but not

limited to, curbs, potholes, unfinished roads, debris, or other obstacles;

• Model S vehicles used for towing;

• Where the odometer is inaccurate, inoperative or altered so that the Vehicle’s true mileage cannot be ascertained or

verified;

• Vehicles that have had the VIN defaced or altered so that it is difficult to determine the VIN or actual mileage;

• Vehicles that have been labeled or branded as dismantled, fire-damaged, flood-damaged, junk, rebuilt, salvage,

reconstructed, irreparable or a total loss;

• Vehicles that have been determined to be a total loss by an insurance company;

• Towing the Vehicle or improper winch procedures;

• Continued operation and failure to protect the Vehicle from further damage caused by lack of necessary coolants or

lubricants, sludge or lubricant contamination, rust or corrosion;

• Corrosion or paint defects including, but not limited to, the following:

o Corrosion from defects in non-Tesla manufactured or supplied materials or workmanship causing perforation

(holes) in body panels or the chassis from the inside out;

o Surface or cosmetic corrosion causing perforation in body panels or the chassis from the outside in, such as

stone chips or scratches; and

SC-17-00-001 Page 4 of 9

o Corrosion and paint defects caused by, due to or resulting from accidents, paint matching, abuse, neglect,

improper maintenance or operation of the vehicle, installation of an accessory, exposure to chemical substances,

or damages resulting from an act of God or nature, fire, or improper storage;

• Tampering with the Vehicle and its systems, including installation of non-Tesla accessories or parts or their

installation, or any damage directly or indirectly caused by, due to or resulting from the installation or use of non-Tesla

parts or accessories;

• Damage to a covered part that is damaged by a non-covered part;

• Damage that occurs prior to this Vehicle ESA’s Effective Date or is reported after this Vehicle ESA’s expiration;

• Any and all indirect, incidental, special and consequential damages arising out of or relating to Your Vehicle,

including, but not limited to, those specified in Section I. Limits of Liability;

• Storage and freight charges;

• The cost of teardown, disassembly or assembly if coverage cannot be applied;

• Adjustments necessary to correct squeaks, rattles, water leaks or wind noise;

• Maintenance/Parts, including but not limited to the following:

o Parts and normal or expendable maintenance items and procedures such as annual service and diagnostics

checks, brake pads/linings, brake rotor, suspension alignment, wheel balancing, hoses, air conditioning lines,

hoses or connections, Battery testing, fluid changes, appearance care (such as cleaning and polishing), filters and

wiper blades/inserts; and

o Other maintenance services and parts described in Tesla’s maintenance schedule for the covered Vehicle;

• Other Parts not covered:

o Bright metal, sheet metal, bumpers, ornamentation moldings, carpet, upholstery, paint, shock absorbers, 12V

battery, battery cables, lenses, light bulbs, sealed beams, glass (e.g., windshield), wheels, interior trim, body

seals and gaskets (e.g., weather stripping);

o Removable soft tops, removable hard tops, glass, plastic, framing, cables, or seals; and

o Certain individual items associated with the Vehicle, including, but not limited to the Mobile Connector, Wall

Connector, any future connectors, and charging adapters;

• Additional loss or damage due to failure to use reasonable precautions to protect the Vehicle from any further loss or

damage after a Failure has occurred; and

• Any costs if verifiable receipts as required in Section C. Your Responsibilities are not furnished on request.

 

[scottm]

You sure about that pano roof statement? I don't recall seeing that exclusion in the ESA the last time I read it (after its last update earlier this year). I no longer have access to the ESA language, since I'm officially out of warranty.

Excluded:

Removable soft tops, removable hard tops, glass, plastic, framing, cables, or seals;

What's left for the pano?

If you burnt out the pano motor, or snapped a gear or busted a rail mechanism, was it because of tree sap or dirt that dripped into the rails and caused strain on the motor or mechanism... cause it to snap? ... too bad.

Did you forget to lubricate the rails as per Tesla specified maintenance (that we can't see and don't know)? ... too bad.. Should have done that...

etc...

These ESA are written with such big worm holes in them you can drive a truck through to Tesla's advantage on the other side.

For busted pano, suppose it really truly was a "bad motor" in the sunroof. Well, disassembly of the pano to get at the motor is not covered. That labour is on you. And suppose the motor cost is $210... well, there's a $200 per incident deductible under ESA... so you pay $200 for that.

Grand total: Tesla chipped in $10 for your troubles.

 

[internalaudit]

These ESA are written with such big voids in them you can drive a truck through to Tesla's advantage.

Which line items in particular?


I can only find the following:

Adjustments necessary to correct squeaks, rattles, water leaks or wind noise;


• Maintenance/Parts, including but not limited to the following:

o Parts and normal or expendable maintenance items and procedures such as annual service and diagnostics

checks, brake pads/linings, brake rotor, suspension alignment, wheel balancing, hoses, air conditioning lines,

hoses or connections, Battery testing, fluid changes, appearance care (such as cleaning and polishing), filters and

wiper blades/inserts; and

• Other Parts not covered:

o Bright metal, sheet metal, bumpers, ornamentation moldings, carpet, upholstery, paint, shock absorbers, 12V

battery, battery cables, lenses, light bulbs, sealed beams, glass (e.g., windshield), wheels, interior trim, body

seals and gaskets (e.g., weather stripping);

o Removable soft tops, removable hard tops, glass, plastic, framing, cables, or seals; and


Sounds as if cables and wiring are excluded but they're non-moving parts and hopefully aren't made out of biodegradable rodent attracting cables.

 

[scottm]

Which line items in particular?

...don't look at items that are stated. Look at what is NOT stated.

These are your holes, taken right from the ESA in the order they appear:

does not cover certain parts
indirectly caused by
but not limited to
provider other than a Tesla Authorized Service Center
or otherwise
or a lack of or improper repair
parts or accessories other than those
but not limited to,
other environmental conditions;
but is not limited to
or for any other purposes
including but not limited to
other obstacles;
but not limited to, the following
such as
act of God or nature
improper
any damage directly or indirectly caused by,
Any and all indirect, incidental, special and consequential damages arising
but not limited to
but not limited to the following
Certain individual items
not limited to
reasonable precautions​

Feeling confident your broken item cannot be categorically slipped into one of these holes?
Then get the ESA.

 

[internalaudit]

...don't look at items that are stated. Look at what is NOT stated.

Anywhere you see the words "other" or "but not limited to" ... these are your holes.

the "but not limited to" is preceded by specific wording so it's not at all limited.

e.g.
Maintenance/Parts, including but not limited to

That means all maintenance parts are excluded but that's the same with all manufacturers but they may be called wear and tear items at other places.

If, however, the wording was:

but not limited to maintenance parts, metal parts ..., I would be wary of purchasing that kind of extended warranty.

I will ask on a separate thread about frustrations on the ESA warranty work.

 

[rxlawdude]

Excluded:

Removable soft tops, removable hard tops, glass, plastic, framing, cables, or seals;

What's left for the pano?

If you burnt out the pano motor, or snapped a gear or busted a rail mechanism, was it because of tree sap or dirt that dripped into the rails and caused strain on the motor or mechanism... cause it to snap? ... too bad.

Did you forget to lubricate the rails as per Tesla specified maintenance (that we can't see and don't know)? ... too bad.. Should have done that...

etc...

These ESA are written with such big worm holes in them you can drive a truck through to Tesla's advantage on the other side.

For busted pano, suppose it really truly was a "bad motor" in the sunroof. Well, disassembly of the pano to get at the motor is not covered. That labour is on you. And suppose the motor cost is $210... well, there's a $200 per incident deductible under ESA... so you pay $200 for that.

Grand total: Tesla chipped in $10 for your troubles.

Um, I think you are clearly in error. And yes, I'm a lawyer.

 

[scottm]

Um, I think you are clearly in error. And yes, I'm a lawyer.

I don't get what you mean "in error".

Error that Tesla only paid $10 ?

 

[rxlawdude]

I don't get what you mean "in error".

Error that Tesla only paid $10 ?

That the pano roof is excluded from ESA coverage.

 

[gfab333]

I own a March 16' delivery S90D with classic bumper. (Feb 16' build). Lately over the last month the car seems to have developed a slight 'wind buffeting' air pressure problem while driving at speeds above 45mph. I've checked all the major seals, trim etc and I'm aware of a bumper flap issue on the new fascia so have also ruled out any exterior bumper imperfections. It's quite annoying and even with the sunroof open to vent, the buffeting continues.

I've seen reference to the 21 turbines being a possible culprit as they are not designed LH or RH and thus one side will alwaya slice wind differently. If that was the case, the would have started when I purchased the car new.

Anyone had any similar issue and resolution? Maybe air flow ducts inside the bumper?

Aloha Navsarin

I took my 2017 MS60 to the SC last week and got an older P85 loaner, not sure of the year but it did have the nose cone front fascia. How uncanny that I experienced exactly what you described when I drove the loaner, even at 25-50+ mph. Windows were up and sealed and I tried to alternate the AC's recirc and fresh air settings, but it made no difference. Felt like the buffeting air pressure effect that you get when driving certain cars with the rear windows partially down.

It slipped my mind to mention it to the SC because I was more concerned about my car's problems being resolved. Sorry that I can't be of more help.

 

[PeterHG]

I own a March 16' delivery S90D with classic bumper. (Feb 16' build). Lately over the last month the car seems to have developed a slight 'wind buffeting' air pressure problem while driving at speeds above 45mph. I've checked all the major seals, trim etc and I'm aware of a bumper flap issue on the new fascia so have also ruled out any exterior bumper imperfections. It's quite annoying and even with the sunroof open to vent, the buffeting continues.

I've seen reference to the 21 turbines being a possible culprit as they are not designed LH or RH and thus one side will alwaya slice wind differently. If that was the case, the would have started when I purchased the car new.

Anyone had any similar issue and resolution? Maybe air flow ducts inside the bumper?

This sounds similar to a problem I had with my 2017 60D. The feet that support my hatch were not quite high enough, and the hatch was vibrating ever so slightly at high speeds. You can bring the car to the SC or turn the feet counterclockwise to raise them a bit. I did the former.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Pano roof not opening anyone? Fix that on your own nickel, even if you bought ESA.

How odd, Tesla covered my pano roof twice under the ESA for squeaks. Very happy I got the ESA. So far it's covered my pano roof, tail light replacement due to insect inside, lift gate strut replacement due to noise, rear appliqué pealing off, and updated lug nuts.

 

[Destiny1701]

This sounds similar to a problem I had with my 2017 60D. The feet that support my hatch were not quite high enough, and the hatch was vibrating ever so slightly at high speeds. You can bring the car to the SC or turn the feet counterclockwise to raise them a bit. I did the former.

Yes I heard about the rear hatch rubber nuts which dictate positioning of the hatch when closed. I tried some adjustments as mentioned on another forum...

Quick reference to resolving pulsating air issue cause by liftgate

Didn't seem to help that much...helped slightly but then another rattle started up as the hatch was raised higher than the fender to make it snug.

I'll make an appt with service.