Model S Wagon?

[Negaiss]

Tesla would have huge success in Europe, if they had estate (wagon) version of their III Gen vechile. If had electric car similar to opel astra, ford focus, vw golf, volvo v50 estate versions, they could sell million cars in europe.

 

[widodh]

Tesla would have huge success in Europe, if they had estate (wagon) version of their III Gen vechile. If had electric car similar to opel astra, ford focus, vw golf, volvo v50 estate versions, they could sell million cars in europe.

Agree!

I really think the Wagen is MUCH better looking then Model X. I simply don't like SUV models.

 

[Snowdog]

Bad idea.

Doesn't really add much functionality to the Model S, which already has a rear hatch and plenty of people/cargo room. Wagons make more sense vs traditional sedans with limited cargo capability, than vs what we already have here, a spacious 5 door hatchback.
It will also Increase weight.
It will also Increase Drag a lot. The traditional wagon shape is terrible for aerodynamics, which is why even the Model X isn't using it.

Decreased range, performance in a body style North American buyers hate. This is an epically bad idea.

 

[VolkerP]

By no means is the 2nd row in Model S "spacious". Headroom is lacking, full sized head rests would further impact rear visibility, and three adults in a row enjoy close shoulder contact if roughly the same torso length. Did you ever sit in there?
I see the point with drag & weight. I would accept these drawbacks, as a station wagon Model S would be much more like the car I want to have.
But since station wagons are not "cool" in the NA market, I think we will never see one from Tesla. Only time will tell.

 

[Kaivball]

By no means is the 2nd row in Model S "spacious". Headroom is lacking, full sized head rests would further impact rear visibility, and three adults in a row enjoy close shoulder contact if roughly the same torso length. Did you ever sit in there?
I see the point with drag & weight. I would accept these drawbacks, as a station wagon Model S would be much more like the car I want to have.
But since station wagons are not "cool" in the NA market, I think we will never see one from Tesla. Only time will tell.

We don't need station wagons. We have SUV's.

A SUV is a station wagon in high heels...

 

[AustinPowers]

We don't need station wagons. We have SUV's.

A SUV is a station wagon in high heels...

...with the drag coefficient of a brick wall ;-)

By no means is a wagon comparable to an SUV. Many SUV's that have a comparable cargo capacity to the Model S are more or less behemoths (VW Touareg, Porsche Cayenne, Audi Q7 et al.)

I would prefer a Model S wagon over the Model X any time. I am sure the Model X will find many buyers, but I won't be one of them - especially considering the falcon doors.

I just don't understand why wagons are unpopular in the US. They often look better than the limousine version of a car and have more usable room (I don't think you can transport a washing machine, skis/long objects and the like in a Model S without compromising too much passenger space. No problem in a wagon though :smile
And as for performance - ever driven an S6 Avant or M5 touring? :biggrin:

 

[Oyvind.H]

Bad idea.
Decreased range, performance in a body style North American buyers hate. This is an epically bad idea.

Not sure if you`re serious, but just to be clear: You don`t want it, therefore it`s a epically bad idea? Would you skip selling tea in england because you prefer coffee?
I would call this epically bad judgement....

 

[ElSupreme]

I just don't understand why wagons are unpopular in the US. They often look better than the limousine version of a car and have more usable room (I don't think you can transport a washing machine, skis/long objects and the like in a Model S without compromising too much passenger space. No problem in a wagon though :smile

I agree with you. But wagons are VERY UNPOPULAR over here. I think it is a cultural thing. Most people 50 and up, when they were kids were carted around in the back of station wagons. I assume they didn't have a good time, or the rebellious culture when they were growing up led to wagon pushback just on principal. The same thing happened with mini-vans. Anyone in this country under the age of 60 won't get a minivan. Because they were so supremely awesome at their purpose, that EVERY single family in the 80s and 90s got one. And they became supremely uncool.

I LOVE wagons, and WANTED a minivan in high school. I have never really been one to dislike something 'just because'. I love things that are practical, and great at what they do. And in my opinion, and most of Europe, wagons are so much more functional than sedans.

But I think it is a rebellious culture in America, and not wanting to drive what your parents drive. I think wagons will start to make a comeback in about 10 years when the population of people culturally opposed to wagons starts to become a much smaller portion of the autos market.

 

[AngelowDoom]

Sign me up for a Model S wagon stragit away! its rad!The Moldel S Wagon I imagine would sell extremely well in Europe, espesially here in Norway since it would be cheaper than its competitors. The regular Model S have already over 1000 reservations. And If there was a wagon available i guess it would have 3000 reservations, maybe 4000 if it had AWD option. And why i draw this conclusion? In scandinavia wagons is very popular because of they are easy to attach acessories to the roof, like: skis, skiboxes, bikes, kayaks, ect. Where would you put this on the Model X? and with the gullwing doors the roof is totaly useless. 80% of the people i know in ages between 30-60 have a wagon, with etiher skibox or roof rack. They go to the montains for skiing in the weekends and in hollidays, the car loaded with kids and skis/snowboard ect. If it is a holliday trip they may have both cross contry skis and downhillskis. If you dont have the oppurtunity to load on the roof, you automaticly loose passenger space since the cargo is so spacious, so witch kid cant come along? And with the options of AWD it would be very popular for those who have steep or slippery road to the cabin, or home for that matter since most homes here is located in the hillside.This is also a reason that many SUV with rounded roof dont sell so good in Norway, They look stupid with skibox and/or have such a narrow distance between the roof racks that is is difficult to properly secure the roof cargo. So easy recipe to good wagon and SUV sales in scandinavia: make a cool flattish roof who look good with a skibox on. Easy!Most popular wagons here in Norway is the Volvo V70 and VW Passat, they look good with skibox

 

[DuncanWatson]

I am a huge fan of wagons and find them very practical. I would be very happy with a Model S wagon or even better a Gen III Wagon especially if it had AWD. For mountain passes I want AWD so I can avoid putting chains on.

 

[ipdamages]

My ICE/backup/family car is an A4 wagon, and I love it. I sincerely hope that we will see a Gen 3 wagon, and if we do that will be the Gen 3 I will buy. For me, the Model S is just too big, so offering a wagon version isn't going to make me a buyer. But I dig that design at the start of this thread and find it more interesting than the sedan. Just scale it down 10-15%, please.

I agree that many Americans dislike wagons, but I know several who like them. With my A4 wagon I can buy and carry just about anything I want, and I don't have to take over the road to do it. I have never once wished I had the extra space that an A6 wagon offers, nor the space that an SUV or minivan provides. But I am clearly in the minority judging by all the SUVs around town in Southern California.

But should/will Tesla do the Model S Wagon? While I prefer the styling of the wagon to the sedan, and I think the original mock-up that started this thread is fantastic, I don't think Tesla will do this variety since they will believe that it likely won't add buyers that won't be covered by the MS sedan and Model X. If Europeans show otherwise and it can generate significant incremental sales, I suppose it is possible, but I think Tesla believes they are already going to address that market with the MX so the time and money can be better spent.

I completely agree with the folks who said they don't want Tesla spending time on this if it delays Gen 3 much. But if Tesla is waiting for battery technology developments so they can hit the $35K, 250-mile mark, then it may be no delay, and I agree that it will add some non-cannibalizing sales and gross profits. And the development costs would likely be minimal. Some more systematic market research (esp in non-US markets) seems to be in order, combined with an accurate understanding of Gen 3 timing and issues.

 

[orlando]

Ipdamages- my other car is an e91 BMW wagon (328i). I share your feelings about the model s being too big.

 

[LST]

I would love to see an Model S Wagon, for us the Model S and as far as i could see in Geneva, the Model X does not provide the space we need. Family of 5, two dogs, cat and often friends or part of the team (ice hockey) to haul around. I hoped the Model S or Model X could replace the XC90 7 seater, but i'm afraid my better half is not convinces it does. .. and Tesla pls provide AWD optional.

 

[K5ING]

Wagons may not be too popular in the US, but you don't need to please everyone. You only have to please the target customer that will buy it. Wagons appeal to customers who think out of the box....so do Teslas. In fact, I'd rather see this than the Model X. Minimum development cost and can be built on the same assembly line as the "S". It would also speed up the development and introduction of the Gen III car. This is where Tesla will make the big bucks.

 

[ElSupreme]

Wagons may not be too popular in the US, but you don't need to please everyone. You only have to please the target customer that will buy it. Wagons appeal to customers who think out of the box....so do Teslas. In fact, I'd rather see this than the Model X. Minimum development cost and can be built on the same assembly line as the "S". It would also speed up the development and introduction of the Gen III car. This is where Tesla will make the big bucks.

I think with Tesla having a large sales expectation in Europe they will be very likely to produce a wagon version of their sedans. I too would much rather have a wagon than SUV/XOver/CUV/SAV/Truck whatever term you want to pull out. But the US market isn't friendly to wagons, I wouldn't expect to see one until Europe proves to have a healthy demand for Tesla vehicles.

The Model X is supposed to be made on the S assembly line, and will heavily leverage the Model S platform/skateboard. So while more involved than a wagon, it won't be hugely more effort than making an AWD wagon Model S.

Not to mention the current Model S is 'almost' a wagon as it is.

 

[AustinPowers]

I think with Tesla having a large sales expectation in Europe they will be very likely to produce a wagon version of their sedans. I too would much rather have a wagon than SUV/XOver/CUV/SAV/Truck whatever term you want to pull out. But the US market isn't friendly to wagons, I wouldn't expect to see one until Europe proves to have a healthy demand for Tesla vehicles.

I think there's a chicken vs. egg situation here. As long as Tesla doesn't offer a Model S wagon in Europe, they won't find out how large their customer base could really become. I am willing to bet that in Europe, a wagon version would by far outsell the sedan, certainly in Norway and Germany.

The Model X is so wildly impractical that I wouldn't even consider buying one even if I was looking for an SUV/Crossover - which I am not. As someone from Norway pointed out some time ago, Model X fails on one of the main selling points of an AWD SUV: storage capacity on the roof / roofrack. Why on earth Tesla decided to prefer "cool" doors over practicality is beyond me.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Credit for this Picture goes to Volvo Cars and carsuk.net.

Granted, it’s a plug-in hybrid (PHEV), and I’m guessing about one size smaller than a Model S, but on the flipside it apparently retails for about $80.000... And according to this article:

Volvo doubling V60 diesel PHEV production to 10,000 to meet demand

…Volvo are apparently pretty confident they’ll sell about 10.000 of these in Europe alone by the end of 2014.

It’s just too bad that Volvo Cars currently, as I understand it, in reality is in fact owned by the very, very undemocratic Chinese dictatorial ‘government’. Which in turn of course really, really sucks for someone (like me for example) with a Swedish citizenship…

 

[felixtb]

geely. is a privately held company wih little to no government influence. as long as they build cars and automotive products..... I would dare say Volvo was more influenced by the Swedish government before than by the Chinese government now....... and certainly less influenced than it would have been if sold to Renault a few years back, where the French government has a large stake and say in the company.

so don't worry too much being a Swedish citizen and all.... so am I.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

geely. is a privately held company wih little to no government influence. as long as they build cars and automotive products..... I would dare say Volvo was more influenced by the Swedish government before than by the Chinese government now....... and certainly less influenced than it would have been if sold to Renault a few years back, where the French government has a large stake and say in the company.

so don't worry too much being a Swedish citizen and all.... so am I.

Well… We’re going off topic here so I suggest we save the mod’s some work and instead continue this topic in the thread about this particular vehicle which can be found here:

Volvo V60 Plug-in Hybrid

You can find my rebuttal there… :wink:

 

[igotzzoom]

Ipdamages- my other car is an e91 BMW wagon (328i). I share your feelings about the model s being too big.

Actually, while we're on the topic, I wouldn't mind if the Gen III took a wagon-ish form. Styling vaguely like the VW GTI, Lexus CT or BMW F30 wagon. My last car was a Mazda Protegé5, and before that, I had a Mk4 GTI VR6. You could say I like hatches. Bought the Sonata strictly as a commuter/carpooler, but I'd go back to a 5-door in a heartbeat.