Model S/X as a taxi or fleet vehicle

[thelastdeadmouse]

I can see the aluminum construction of the Model S being a liability for adoption as a Taxi. The Crown Vic wasn't just the defacto Taxi for its size and torque, but because its body on frame construction was easy to repair. All the body panels could just be swapped out as needed, and some taxi companies and police departments even own their own frame straighteners specifically designed for the Crown Vic. In places like Manhattan the ease of repair made up for the addition running cost from fuel of such an antiquated and heavy design.

Although the Crown Vic is no longer an options for new fleet vehicle purchases, fact remains though that for some fleets like taxis in crowded cities, body repair will be a major factor in maintenance cost. Ease and cost of replacing panels on the Model S it a complete question mark at this point, and any company attempting to do repairs in house is going to need new equipment and training to work with aluminum. TIG welding instead of MIG or stick requires completely different equipment, a completely different skill set for welding, and even dent repair on aluminum is different from on steel.

I still think the Model S is a great fleet vehicle for corporate cars or taxis in less dense and wild traffic, but it'll probably be a long time before you see a aluminum bodied of any kind car painted yellow in Manhattan.

 

[Uncle Ron]

EDIT,,

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Revealed: Nissan NV200 London Taxi to Give Classic Black Cab Competition

Read more: Revealed: Nissan NV200 London Taxi to Give Classic Black Cab Competition - WOT on Motor Trend

Nissan seems to be cornering the market with the NV200.

That's just fluff. The classic black cab's already getting competition from Mercs and others.

 

[Frederic]

Building Economic Analysis Tools

Based on the information collected at this point, it looks like in many situations, there is a business case for Tesla Model S as well as Chevy Volt to be used as Taxis. I also understand that the economic and technical viability will be affected by a number of factors. I believe that it is very important that Tesla Motors should Make it in order to accelerate the transition to cleaner transportation.

In order to sort things out and help business vehicle or fleet owners see clearly, I suggest that a tool similar to RETScreen (see RETScreen International) be built in OpenOffice or Excel to start. Ideally a web version could eventually be developed but the web calculators I have seen so far are quite basic, typically restrictive (locked localized units and data, not up to date or flexible enough to add various possible cost items, credits, financing options and other parameters .

I also suggest that working in partnership with Universities, NGOs and Industry, market studies be carried out to evaluate the top priority markets (geographical, sectorial..) and strategies to deal with issues raised and possible client objections. I have attached a study from Waterloo University (also available at https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/research/tr/2011/CS-2011-20a.pdf) that provides a model for calculations that could be used as start to further studies.

For example, the Waterloo study only considered one Taxi Company in one location in California. It would be interesting to see how a similar and expended study could be used for area that have much higher gas costs (Europe..) or much lower Electricity Costs (Quebec). When looking at viability of Telsa Model S taxis in Montreal, It would be important to take into account the climate of North-East cities of the North America. So the Model (I will call it EVScreen for now) could take into account the temperature to suggest battery size based on the usage pattern and expected daily distance.

Anybody interested to get involved in such a project?

 

[neroden]

Model S would have been considered a great taxi vehicle some years back.

But it has a fatal flaw: it can't accomodate a wheelchair. Many countries now have an equivalent of the ADA. In cities where taxis are regulated, the taxi regulation is a government act, and therefore subject to the ADA (or equivalent). On top of that, it's just a good idea to have a taxi which can accomodate a wheelchair -- so many taxicab fleets are slowly switching over to small minivans which can carry a wheelchair.

I asked about this and was told by forum members that even Model X probably wouldn't be suitable for wheelchair access. I'm not so sure about that -- especially with the "falcon doors", it might be quite possible to design Model X with a one-wheelchair lift -- but I'm *quite* sure Model S won't be suitable.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm entirely focused on the town car business, not the taxi business. The beauty of the town car business is that the vast majority of it is scheduled ahead of time, and you can centrally manage which cars do which trips - and which ones get plug time.
Trying to pitch the EV conversion to the town car business, you need to convince them that they won't be leaving money on the table by having to refuse fares that the ICE cars could serve ( or if you do, you need to factor that in to the calculations and show that it is more than made up for in the gas savings by changing the fleet over ).

The town car business also doesn't have as much of a wheelchair access issue. While they may have to have a wheelchair accessible vehicle, the pre-scheduling means there is not nearly so much incentive to have EVERY vehicle wheelchair-accessible.

 

[daniel]

Model S would have been considered a great taxi vehicle some years back.

But it has a fatal flaw: it can't accomodate a wheelchair. [...] many taxicab fleets are slowly switching over to small minivans which can carry a wheelchair.

While I strongly support laws that require accessible services, I do not like riding in a van when I'm one person. It is a pointless waste of resources. Taxis should come in a variety of sizes and styles so the wheelchair-bound person can always get a cab, but the single person is not forced to use a cab intended for groups of a dozen people.

BTW, near the end of his life my father was in a wheelchair. With just a little help he could ride in a regular car. Someone helped him into the car, then put the folded-up chair in the trunk.

 

[ChrisgG]

I'm not sure, it might be true that a cap driver drives 300km a day. But if the Company owner owns a fleet there might be 2-3 drivers in the same car a day. So if you would want to sell for a cap company you'd need the much talked about batteryswap. So at least the cost of a new battery has to be added, and some infrastructure. But especialy Cap companies with better cars would be a perfect customer for that business model, as you kinda know the numbers as soon as oyu sold the cars to them and therefore can calculate really well.

 

[jkirkebo]

I'm not sure, it might be true that a cap driver drives 300km a day. But if the Company owner owns a fleet there might be 2-3 drivers in the same car a day. So if you would want to sell for a cap company you'd need the much talked about batteryswap.

The cars usually don't run continously. I'm sure Tesla would sell the cab company a SuperCharger if they asked ? There are Leafs being used as Taxis in Norway, they fast charge when they are not doing anything else.

 

[Robert.Boston]

In cities like New York, cabs do run nearly continuously. NYC issues a limited number of medallions that authorize a particular vehicle to be a taxi (i.e., one that can pick up passengers without prior arrangement). These medallions are valuable, about $1 million each, so you don't leave them sitting idle. The cabbies I've talked to work 12-hour shifts, alternating use of a particular vehicle with a friend or relative. While the cabs may spend some time waiting at cab stands by hotels, etc., mostly their cruising the streets.

 

[daniel]

Even here in Spokane, cabbies I've talked to say their car is in constant service, with several drivers taking turns. A large taxi fleet could schedule charging at slow times of day, but it's more complicated than a 5-minute stop for gas, which in a pinch can be done even with a customer in the car. I've had cabbies ask if I minded if they stop for fuel. Since I always allow plenty of time, I don't mind. Two or three minutes and we're back on the road, without ever having gone out of our way.

A battery-swap station would be impractical and too expensive for any but very large fleets. Public battery swapping has other problems entirely: Unless the car is owned by the battery-swap company, you have to wonder if you're getting an old and worn-out battery. Not a problem when the company is new, but a serious problem as their stock ages.

 

[VolkerP]

Project Better Place runs a battery swap station at Amsterdam's airport Schiphol. Several independent taxi operators use it as a service. I don't know how they handle the issue of worn out batteries, but I assume that the terms of use regulate that.
read yourself here: Better Place Consortium Delivers EU Showcase in Amsterdam

I agree that battery swap is useful for 24/7 operations whereas privately owned cars with 1 driver may come along with fast charging or the occasional top-up charge.

 

[JRP3]

The Better Place model has BP owning the battery, not the car owner, so the quality of the battery is BP's problem. That's one advantage of the BP model, though of course that "protection" is priced into the charging plan.

 

[vfx]

... NYC issues a limited number of medallions that authorize a particular vehicle to be a tax....

Laws could be changed for EVs.


Also in the early 1900's there were EV taxi companies in NY and (I think) Chicago that had battery swap stations at the main building.

 

[daniel]

Project Better Place runs a battery swap station at Amsterdam's airport Schiphol.

The Better Place model has BP owning the battery, not the car owner, so the quality of the battery is BP's problem. That's one advantage of the BP model, though of course that "protection" is priced into the charging plan.

Exactly. In the case of BP, don't they even own the car? Personally, I would not invest in BP. I think their business model is unsound for the long term, due to the cost of keeping enough batteries at all the swap stations.

NYC issues a limited number of medallions that authorize a particular vehicle to be a taxi...

Laws could be changed for EVs.

A recent episode of the Planet Money podcast (an excellent program, by the way) discussed the proposal to issue 2,000 new taxi medallions. They concluded that the effect on traffic congestion of 2,000 more taxis would be disastrous, since taxis are driving around continuously, unlike private cars, which are on the road for a much shorter time.

Of course, NYC may not care about that, against the one-time revenue of selling 2,000 new taxi medallions at a million bucks each.

The only way I can see a big infusion of electric taxis in NYC would be if the city issued new medallions with the restriction that they could only be used on electric cars. But they might not be able to get as much money for them, and they'd still face the traffic congestion problem.

 

[ElSupreme]

A recent episode of the Planet Money podcast (an excellent program, by the way) discussed the proposal to issue 2,000 new taxi medallions. They concluded that the effect on traffic congestion of 2,000 more taxis would be disastrous, since taxis are driving around continuously, unlike private cars, which are on the road for a much shorter time.

My favorite part of that piece was that it would most likely be faster to wait for a cab (at current cab levels) and drive faster, than to get into a cab and drive slowly. They even brought up the fact that a slower trip but not waiting for a cab is optimal during rain.

If I remember it correctly. I think it was about 2-3 weeks ago.

 

[retinadoc]

Model S or X as a NYC Cab

To paraphase a famous physician, " Jim, I am a doctor not a cab driver." Obviously, I have minimal understanding or experience with the Limo/Livery business, but on the surface I would assume the two major business costs would be gas and vehicle maitenance. A Tesla MS or X would significantly decrease both. I wonder if this could be a future market for our favorite EV company?

 

[GSP]

Model S in service as a Town Car

Putting the $20,000 2013 Nissan LEAF into Perspective in Terms of Payback Period

Post by Levi" at above link:

"I just replaced one towncar this February with my brand new Model S. Electrician just finished redoing the high power sockets for faster charging @ our office. I calculate that my Model S will
Pay for it self in around FOUR YEARS.!!!"

GSP

 

[clea]

Putting the $20,000 2013 Nissan LEAF into Perspective in Terms of Payback Period

Post by Levi" at above link:

"I just replaced one towncar this February with my brand new Model S. Electrician just finished redoing the high power sockets for faster charging @ our office. I calculate that my Model S will
Pay for it self in around FOUR YEARS.!!!"

GSP

I like the part where he says that his customers often drive him to the airport and pay the fee just so they can get a test drive.

 

[loganss]

Putting the $20,000 2013 Nissan LEAF into Perspective in Terms of Payback Period

Post by Levi" at above link:

"I just replaced one towncar this February with my brand new Model S. Electrician just finished redoing the high power sockets for faster charging @ our office. I calculate that my Model S will
Pay for it self in around FOUR YEARS.!!!"

GSP

It would be nice if one of the "green car" media outlets does a story on this. I'm interested in finding out more

 

[SebastianR]

There is a Danish company that ordered 50 Tesla Model S for the use as taxi.

There is a (Danish) article about that here:

http://www.cleardrive.dk/2012/07/cleardrive-og-taxinord-4x48-tester-tesla-model-s/

(Google Translate Version)